National News The Brexit Thread 🇬🇧🇪🇺

[Pete Burrett]

This might help with the options that were given.............
View attachment 4813

Thank you for confirming my point. The option was 'leave the EU' not 'leave the EU with no deal', therefore no-one can claim leaving with no deal was what they voted for.

Some people might have been thinking 'let's just get out. No deal would be fine' but they were not given the option to vote for no deal.

 

[Essexyellows]

Thank you for confirming my point. The option was 'leave the EU' not 'leave the EU with no deal', therefore no-one can claim leaving with no deal was what they voted for.

Some people might have been thinking 'let's just get out. No deal would be fine' but they were not given the option to vote for no deal.

You seem to struggle with the concept.

We voted to Leave.

That`s it...... diddly about deals.
Should have just dropped the axe the next day and said "We are off, come and talk if you want a deal."

Sadly 40+ years of the insidious creep of the EU (formerly EEC) made that to difficult, so the two sides have tried to untangle the knots.
They have now reached the really difficult stuff where you just have to accept a pair of scissors is the best choice.

As has been said many times...........tick tock. 10 weeks to go less weekends & holidays.....................

 

[Pete Burrett]

You seem to struggle with the concept.

We voted to Leave.

That`s it...... diddly about deals.
Should have just dropped the axe the next day and said "We are off, come and talk if you want a deal."

Sadly 40+ years of the insidious creep of the EU (formerly EEC) made that to difficult, so the two sides have tried to untangle the knots.
They have now reached the really difficult stuff where you just have to accept a pair of scissors is the best choice.

As has been said many times...........tick tock. 10 weeks to go less weekends & holidays.....................

That's very condescending of you, and very uncharacteristic of you.

Leysboy stated;

I like the sound of this Australian style trade deal. Essentially means No deal!
It’s exactly what I voted for all along, and I’m glad Boris has got the guts to go with it. Let’s hope there’s not a u turn and another extension.

Please note the phrase in bold. He did no such thing. He voted to leave. 'Australian style' or 'no deal' was not on the table, so he couldn't have voted for it. The vote was indeed nothing about detail, it was simply leave or remain.

Leysboy could justifiably have said he voted to leave, but that wasn't what he said.

I'll let you know the day I'm incapable of reading and understanding English, then perhaps you can help me with my replies.

 

[Essexyellows]

That's very condescending of you, and very uncharacteristic of you.

Leysboy stated;

I like the sound of this Australian style trade deal. Essentially means No deal!
It’s exactly what I voted for all along, and I’m glad Boris has got the guts to go with it. Let’s hope there’s not a u turn and another extension.

Please note the phrase in bold. He did no such thing. He voted to leave. 'Australian style' or 'no deal' was not on the table, so he couldn't have voted for it. The vote was indeed nothing about detail, it was simply leave or remain.

Leysboy could justifiably have said he voted to leave, but that wasn't what he said.

I'll let you know the day I'm incapable of reading and understanding English, then perhaps you can help me with my replies.

@Leysboy was speaking/typing "in the round", from that you highlighted the bit that suited your response.
I highlighted the preceding part that gives it a degree of context.
He voted to leave. Leave won. Simple concept.

The can has been kicked for 4 years and we are reaching the end game............. if that ends with "no deal" then so be it.
We leave and respect the democratic decision of the electorate.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

@Leysboy was speaking/typing "in the round", from that you highlighted the bit that suited your response.
I highlighted the preceding part that gives it a degree of context.
He voted to leave. Leave won. Simple concept.

The can has been kicked for 4 years and we are reaching the end game............. if that ends with "no deal" then so be it.
We leave and respect the democratic decision of the electorate.

And you are specifically ignoring the detail that many were persuaded to vote leave because they were told a deal would be "the easiest in history".

I repeat....again....nobody campaigned for leave on the basis of no deal.

That alone either makes them cowards, liars or fantasists.

If they had "levelled with the public" from the start, do you still think 51.9% would've voted leave?

 

[Pete Burrett]

@Leysboy was speaking/typing "in the round", from that you highlighted the bit that suited your response.
I highlighted the preceding part that gives it a degree of context.
He voted to leave. Leave won. Simple concept.

The can has been kicked for 4 years and we are reaching the end game............. if that ends with "no deal" then so be it.
We leave and respect the democratic decision of the electorate.

Leysboy clearly stated he'd voted to leave with no deal, when he couldn't possibly have done so (see the referendum choices). You're now trying to suggest his desire to leave with no deal is no different to a desire to simply leave. I would suggest they are very different things, but evidently I cannot understand 'simple concepts', so perhaps I'm just wrong and/or thick.

 

[Essexyellows]

And you are specifically ignoring the detail that many were persuaded to vote leave because they were told a deal would be "the easiest in history".

I repeat....again....nobody campaigned for leave on the basis of no deal.

That alone either makes them cowards, liars or fantasists.

If they had "levelled with the public" from the start, do you still think 51.9% would've voted leave?

Semantics & facts eh?
Both campaigns ran as they saw fit.
Everyone who voted saw the same ballot paper.
The majority voted to Leave.

Boris`s much vaunted "oven ready" deal was election bluster some 3 or 4 years post referendum.
Those 3 or 4 years of deadlocked parliament and endless legal challenges by Miller et al.

Wind back to the referendum and the majority voted to leave.
Yes, things have changed since then, but the will of the electorate must be enacted if only to preserve democracy in its truest form.

Parliament serves the people not the other way around, we put them there to do our bidding and the result of the last 3 major referendums (EU Ref, EU Parliamentary Election & the GE) have sent a clear and unequivocal message.

At no stage has the country "changed its mind" no matter how close those who lost the referendum think it is.

 

[bashamwonderland]

Agree with much of what you've written there.

I would like a no-deal advocate to explain the logic to me though.

As I see it we will have to strike a trade deal with the EU at some point. Why wouldn't we try to do that now?

As a no-deal advocate I distrust the Conservative Party. There's a lot of public pressure on the Government to "secure a deal" and to do that at this stage would in my opinion be playing into the hands of the EU and will result in us getting a poor hand. They know we're under pressure and they have the power.

I think it's worth trying for a deal now but I don't want our representatives securing "EU light" or betraying my own personal red lines. Because they'll just spin it as a great victory where it's really a half way house which serves neither remainers nor leavers.

So yes I think we will have to get a deal at some point. It's just what deal and when. And when that comes it will run this thread for a few more pages yet!!

 

[QR]

As a no-deal advocate I distrust the Conservative Party. There's a lot of public pressure on the Government to "secure a deal" and to do that at this stage would in my opinion be playing into the hands of the EU and will result in us getting a poor hand. They know we're under pressure and they have the power.

I think it's worth trying for a deal now but I don't want our representatives securing "EU light" or betraying my own personal red lines. Because they'll just spin it as a great victory where it's really a half way house which serves neither remainers nor leavers.

So yes I think we will have to get a deal at some point. It's just what deal and when. And when that comes it will run this thread for a few more pages yet!!

So what happened to 'we hold all the cards'?

 

[Sheik djibouti]

So what happened to 'we hold all the cards'?

We never have, never will!

 

[Sheik djibouti]

Semantics & facts eh?
Both campaigns ran as they saw fit.
Everyone who voted saw the same ballot paper.
The majority voted to Leave.

Boris`s much vaunted "oven ready" deal was election bluster some 3 or 4 years post referendum.
Those 3 or 4 years of deadlocked parliament and endless legal challenges by Miller et al.

Wind back to the referendum and the majority voted to leave.
Yes, things have changed since then, but the will of the electorate must be enacted if only to preserve democracy in its truest form.

Parliament serves the people not the other way around, we put them there to do our bidding and the result of the last 3 major referendums (EU Ref, EU Parliamentary Election & the GE) have sent a clear and unequivocal message.

At no stage has the country "changed its mind" no matter how close those who lost the referendum think it is.

I didn't say changed their mind, I said were lied to in the first place and made a decision in good faith based on untruths told in bad faith. Had they not been lied to, the result would've been different because leave would never have constructed a convincing case based on no deal or a thin deal.

It is a real shame that you on one hand say demcoracy must be preserved yet on the other don't really care how that democratic decision was engineered in the first place.

And I just know you're going to come back the usual "they're all as bad as each other"

Just stop and think how sad that defence is of what is supposed to be one of the worlds greatest democracies! It simply perpetuates the culture of dodgy expenses, cash for questions, dodgy business deals for mates and the old boys network and it is a crying shame you don't believe we deserve better.

 

[bashamwonderland]

So what happened to 'we hold all the cards'?

Well we don't hold all the cards, but the longer we push it the more our balance of power will increase.

 

[QR]

Well we don't hold all the cards, but the longer we push it the more our balance of power will increase.

At last! You've come to realise the Brexiteers (Gove on this case) lied to you.

 

[bashamwonderland]

At last! You've come to realise the Brexiteers (Gove on this case) lied to you.

I don't understand what you mean by that - lies were told on both sides and I believe I've said that before. I've always supported leave but not necessarily the official Leave campaign.

 

[Essexyellows]

I didn't say changed their mind, I said were lied to in the first place and made a decision in good faith based on untruths told in bad faith. Had they not been lied to, the result would've been different because leave would never have constructed a convincing case based on no deal or a thin deal.

It is a real shame that you on one hand say demcoracy must be preserved yet on the other don't really care how that democratic decision was engineered in the first place.

And I just know you're going to come back the usual "they're all as bad as each other"

Just stop and think how sad that defence is of what is supposed to be one of the worlds greatest democracies! It simply perpetuates the culture of dodgy expenses, cash for questions, dodgy business deals for mates and the old boys network and it is a crying shame you don't believe we deserve better.

The point was that the opinion of the nation didn`t change, if anything it got more opposed to the EU......if it had softened or changed we would have not had The Brexit Party sweeping into Brussels and a Tory "landslide" since the referendum.

Or was it all "smoke & mirrors" ?

 

[Leysboy]

I voted leave!

I’ve always wanted us to leave without a deal. I don’t want any part of the EU.

There may end up being a deal of some sort, because they need us and our money, more than we need them. They the EU need to look like there making things hard for us, which they are not of course! so other countries don’t follow our lead. I believe we hold the Aces if there are any negotiations taking place. Like I said above I’d rather leave with No Deal!

 

[SteMerritt]

I believe we hold the Aces if there are any negotiations taking place.

Surely if we hold all of the aces, we should have made a very beneficial trade deal by now?

 

[m]

I voted leave!

I’ve always wanted us to leave without a deal. I don’t want any part of the EU.

There may end up being a deal of some sort, because they need us and our money, more than we need them. They the EU need to look like there making things hard for us, which they are not of course! so other countries don’t follow our lead. I believe we hold the Aces if there are any negotiations taking place. Like I said above I’d rather leave with No Deal!

So you just want to stop buying things from and selling things to the EU immediately?

And this is more important than mitigating the COVID epidemic?

 

[stokeu]

I don't understand what you mean by that - lies were told on both sides and I believe I've said that before. I've always supported leave but not necessarily the official Leave campaign.

I don't understand what you mean by that - lies were told on both sides and I believe I've said that before. I've always supported leave but not necessarily the official Leave campaign.

Gove: 'We hold all the cards' in stalled EU talks

The Cabinet Secretary says the EU is trying to halt progress on post-Brexit trade negotiations.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[bashamwonderland]

Gove: 'We hold all the cards' in stalled EU talks

The Cabinet Secretary says the EU is trying to halt progress on post-Brexit trade negotiations.

www.bbc.co.uk

"We hold all the cards" is an opinion and not a quantifyable statement of fact. I don't necessarily agree with Michael Gove nor do I need to stick up for him.

As I say, I don't necessarily support the Leave campaign.