International News Covid-19 .....

I hope you'll find this source useful.

Devi Sridhar is Professor & Chair of Global Public Health,
at Edinburgh University Medical School.


her article in the Guardian -( Look Away @Essexyellows fact-based arguments in non- government supporting paper = dangerous left wing ranting)
has a plan for ending the lockdown


1) t is to aggressively identify where the virus is and break chains of transmission. This requires a “test, trace, isolate” policy that involves mass community testing, tracing those who had been in contact in the previous week with any individual testing positive, and putting all of those individuals into a mandatory quarantine. Governments and local municipalities would have to recruit and train foot soldiers to carry this out.

2) is to protect health and social care workers who are most at risk from contracting the virus and who are exposed to high viral loads during the course of doing their jobs.

3) constant surveillance of the virus using tracking systems to detect whether certain parts of the country are becoming hotspots and whether sub-populations, such as migrants living in close quarters, have a higher incidence of the virus.

4) blanket 14-day quarantines for any international arrivals .

5) is that clear and honest communication with the public is required to keep trust and compliance with the necessary policy guidance.

6) recognising that any “exit” strategy is not like a switch that means life will go back to pre-Covid days. A “new normal” will need to be adjusted to, which is likely to involve distancing whenever possible; possible temperature checks when entering public buildings and offices; and the use of face masks in public.

7) l lockdowns are not a solution by themselves.. They allow governments to buy time and use this time to massively increase important public health infrastructure.
 
I hope you'll find this source useful.

Devi Sridhar is Professor & Chair of Global Public Health,
at Edinburgh University Medical School.


her article in the Guardian -( Look Away @Essexyellows fact-based arguments in non- government supporting paper = dangerous left wing ranting)
has a plan for ending the lockdown


1) t is to aggressively identify where the virus is and break chains of transmission. This requires a “test, trace, isolate” policy that involves mass community testing, tracing those who had been in contact in the previous week with any individual testing positive, and putting all of those individuals into a mandatory quarantine. Governments and local municipalities would have to recruit and train foot soldiers to carry this out.

Not a new concept. But yes the government need to redouble their efforts to streamline this process and give the public confidence in the system.

2) is to protect health and social care workers who are most at risk from contracting the virus and who are exposed to high viral loads during the course of doing their jobs.

Again, not a new ideology. PPE logistical issues still causing problems for some, not so for others. Did she say how she would resolve these logistical problems rather than stating the obvious need to protect these people?

3) constant surveillance of the virus using tracking systems to detect whether certain parts of the country are becoming hotspots and whether sub-populations, such as migrants living in close quarters, have a higher incidence of the virus.

Apps are being developed and tested aren’t they?


4) blanket 14-day quarantines for any international arrivals .

Absolutely agree

5) is that clear and honest communication with the public is required to keep trust and compliance with the necessary policy guidance.

This is also politics. Whatever is spouted by whoever, some will trust and believe, some will not. Fact of life.

6) recognising that any “exit” strategy is not like a switch that means life will go back to pre-Covid days. A “new normal” will need to be adjusted to, which is likely to involve distancing whenever possible; possible temperature checks when entering public buildings and offices; and the use of face masks in public.

I think we all know that. Media headlines are not helpful though.


7) l lockdowns are not a solution by themselves.. They allow governments to buy time and use this time to massively increase important public health infrastructure.

Again, nothing new here. Absolutely no way the economy can pick up this tab for long. Did she explain how she felt this could be achieved though? Or just state what we all knew.
 
Read what he said..... I typed it especially for people of limited understanding.

Then go down a couple of posts and read the headline in the rag.

Sure even you can manage that, there`s a good chap.

And as for Kunnesburg prattling on about an "exact R number"................. you can`t have an exact number across 66 million people you stupid pointy faced witch.
I asked...
'So did he say that before this mornings headlines?'

Whose intelligence are you questioning? That of journalists of The Times, The Telegraph and the Guardian? Are they stupid to be questioning the mixed messages, because in your eyes there are none?
 
All these things that you say "aren't new concepts" aren't being done though, are they?

This is also politics. Whatever is spouted by whoever, some will trust and believe, some will not. Fact of life.

You accept it as a fact of life becuase of the way the Conservatives choose to communicate.
There is a vast difference in the style of communication in, say, Germany, New Zealand and Canada than in Britain. As we saw yesterday Johnson and co like to communicate by floating leaks to friendly papers then rowing them back. The rules are contradictory and confusing and the persistent attempts to game the data means official sources aren't trusted. It doesn't have to be this way.

You wouldn't catch Jacinda Arden or Angela Merkel bragging about shaking hands with Covid19 victims or calling the disease a "mugger." or deliberately calling scientific advice into question.

You're now complaining about a Professor stating "what we all know". Until the government acts on it it's meaningless. There are plenty of ways the economy can act on it if it chooses to. This country would rather keep its regime of tax dodging for the very wealthy - who fund the Conservative Party.

It's a matter of priorities really. keeping people alive or keeping piles of cash out of the reach of in the Cayman islands or whereever.

In a moment of national crisis we need to ensure that everyone pays their taxes.
 
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This is also politics. Whatever is spouted by whoever, some will trust and believe, some will not. Fact of life.
That's an interesting point. It is in fact not politics. It is the bullshit we now receive instead of politics. It is marketing. It is populism. It is facism (and I don't just mean from the right wing - it plays across the board).

The sad thing is we ask for it. We don't want honesty, we want to hear platitudes and pleasantries because it makes us feel like we're not being taken for ride even when we are. The agenda persists in the background, but we are pacified. If Karl Marx lived now he would have probably said "publicity, marketing and s**t TV are the opium of the masses"

One lesson from the Corbyn period in the labour party is that anyone with deep principles should not say them out loud because every single item will be used to beat them. Much safer to use platitudes and populist statements. They don't have to be your actual principles, and you may in fact have no principles, but feed the animals with what they want to hear and you can do whatever you want.

In a relatively prosperous and safe time (historically speaking) we have snoozed and let it slide. But it bites us now when the existential s**t has hit the fan.

f**k.
 
There is a vast difference in the style of communication in Germany, New Zealand and Canada than in britain.
Interestingly in Oz, where our Pentacostalist-in-Chief a.k.a. Scotty-from-Marketing, has definitely shaped up in the Boris/Trump mould, he has done much better with covid, and retained respect. I think it is because he got a training whipping from the bushfire crisis that taught him to drop the bullshit.
 
Interestingly in Oz, where our Pentacostalist-in-Chief a.k.a. Scotty-from-Marketing, has definitely shaped up in the Boris/Trump mould, he has done much better with covid, and retained respect. I think it is because he got a training whipping from the bushfire crisis that taught him to drop the bullshit.
I guess a Scotty-from-marketing has to meet targets and answer to management. JOhnson has never answered to anyone in his life. he's just done exactly what he felt like and caused chaos and left someone else to pick up the pieces. Whether that was the waiters in the restaurants he and his friends smashed up in Oxford , his wives and children, the taxpayer- (like his ridiculous Garden Bridge scheme that cost the country 50 million pounds- much spent on parties or Johnson's mates with nothing whatsoever to show for it or the 100 grand that went to Jennifer Arcuri) or now the NHS workers and residents in care homes who are dying because he would rather showboat than do the hard work.
 
Thread from Anthony Costello (until 2015 Costello was Professor of International Child Health and Director of the Institute for Global Health at the University College London. From 2015 to 2018 he was director of maternal, child and adolescent health at the World Health Organisation in Geneva.)

"Overcentralisation v Self-organising. The UK always had testing capacity. Like Korea we developed a WHO approved test on January 10th. But Korea immediately approached their pharmaceutical companies to help expand testing. We didn't. (1)

On January 28th the first SAGE meeting said we (PHE?) didn't have testing capacity so it was ignored by modellers. But the UK has 44 molecular virology labs to do tests. PHE has only a handful but wanted to keep control. (2)

The molecular virology labs were actually forbidden to do testing by PHE up until the end of March. And we have always had huge research capacity to do tests that wasn't tapped. (3)

On March 12 we stopped all community testing at a time when there were less than 10 deaths and only 500 confirmed cases countrywide. Most local authorities had tiny numbers of cases. Before we stopped we were only doing 1500 tests per day. This should not have happened. (4)

And contact tracing could have easily continued with local authority public health teams, GPs, environmental health officers and trained volunteers. Except maybe in London and W Midlands. This would have reduced spread +++. (5)

On March 13 WHO pointedly reminded us that containment (test,trace, isolate) should NOT be stopped. Dr Tedros, Director General WHO, said “The idea that countries should shift from containment to mitigation is wrong and dangerous.” We stopped containment. (6)

On March 13 many, many of us tweeted and argued for a national lockdown. The government didn't do it. On March 19 Sir Mark Walport, CEO of UK Research and Innovation and member of SAGE, told Peston that I and others were "utterly wrong" and modelling would lead us. (7)

Once the government got serious about testing, and appointed John Newton to lead it in April, we quickly scaled up our capacity, within 3 weeks. At their peak Korea only tested 18000 tests per day for 51 million population. (8)

So why in May 2020 have we again ignored our local and molecular virology capacity for testing and recruited new people and new labs through Deloitte for a centralised testing system? Is this sustainable and joined up with local authority and GPs needs? (9)

And why have we gone to Serco to organise call centre contact tracing? Is this joined up with 111, or local public health outbreak management teams and GPs who provide 80-90% of all care and support? (10)

And why invent a new complicated national app, that
@FryRsquared has serious doubts about, and needs piloting in the Isle of Wight? S Korea set up a simple app in two weeks which was used just to allow people to report symptoms and local health workers to monitor quarantine? (11)

The govt has overcentralised + made poor decisions throughout. They ignore the 'self-organising principle': "structures where some form of overall order or coordination arises out of the local interactions between smaller component parts of an initially disordered system". (12)"

The government insists on centralising. taking any control over local authorities and steering valubable contracts to the private sector.
 
another example of Johnson and Cummings showboating- and offering work to mates - which wasted everyone's time amd money

Financial Times journalist who worked for the telegra ph for many years
I thought I read on BBC News yesterday that the first app was working well in testing... If there is a second app in the works then the rationale for this would be interesting, unless of course the news that the first one is working was just bullshit. It did seem remarkable the developers claiming they could bypass OS restrictions on Bluetooth set by the manufacturers, if there was a flaw to be able to do it, then Apple/Google would of course patch pretty quickly.
 
All these things that you say "aren't new concepts" aren't being done though, are they?

I got impression that you posted the link to highlight that this professor had all the answers to this crisis. I was just highlighting the fact they they were not answers to reaching the solution, just highlighting the problems that needed to be resolved. I didn’t see anywhere where she gave a solution.

Whether they are being done, being done well or being done badly is indeed another matter ?.
 
That's an interesting point. It is in fact not politics. It is the bullshit we now receive instead of politics. It is marketing. It is populism. It is facism (and I don't just mean from the right wing - it plays across the board).

Politics has always been bullshit though hasn’t it.

Or up to this crisis have you always assumed every one in government (no matter which party) has been full of truth and honesty?
 
I really don't understand your posts at all.

You nitpick or say "everybody knows that".

health advice hasn't always been bullshit though.

In the current crisis only the British and the American Governments have bene perssitently politicising and spinning the advice they are giving their citizens. As far as I know even the Chinese, whilst they clearly lied about the pandemic early on, when they gave messages to their citizens were as far as I know absolutely clear about what was and wasn't permitted.
 
Well if this isn't proof of the dumbing down of society, I don't know what is....
One is a fictitious "God" of Norse origins, the other, a fictitious "villain" of comic book origins based, coincidentally, on a fictitious "God" of Norse origins.
However, as Loki was known for his trickery and ability to appear as male or female and to change his appearance, it could be that Stan Lee's creation of Loki is actually one and the same, or not.
I'll leave that to you learned gentlemen to dissect.
 
One is a fictitious "God" of Norse origins, the other, a fictitious "villain" of comic book origins based, coincidentally, on a fictitious "God" of Norse origins.
However, as Loki was known for his trickery and ability to appear as male or female and to change his appearance, it could be that Stan Lee's creation of Loki is actually one and the same, or not.
I'll leave that to you learned gentlemen to dissect.
And milk comes from the shops.... ?
 
I work as a librarian in a local FE college and have been working at home since the lockdown started. The government advice was that schools and colleges would stay open for children of key workers and the vulnerable. I was put on a rota to staff the library but it soon became apparent that 90% of the kids would were eligible to attend college were not turning up so I was told to work from home.

Yesterday we had an online team meeting when we were told to prepare to return to work on June 1st. It was stressed that this had not been sanctioned from the government but I wouldn't be surprised if it is a date that the government has in mind for a limited re-opening for the sector. The first week is going to be a planning week with very a very limited number of students allowed back. Many parts of the college will be out of bounds and there will a one way system in place for moving around. The library will be open but again the numbers will be limited.. When books are returned they will be quarantined for three days before being shelved. We were got given a specific list of what PPE equipment will be provided.
 
I work as a librarian in a local FE college and have been working at home since the lockdown started. The government advice was that schools and colleges would stay open for children of key workers and the vulnerable. I was put on a rota to staff the library but it soon became apparent that 90% of the kids would were eligible to attend college were not turning up so I was told to work from home.

Yesterday we had an online team meeting when we were told to prepare to return to work on June 1st. It was stressed that this had not been sanctioned from the government but I wouldn't be surprised if it is a date that the government has in mind for a limited re-opening for the sector. The first week is going to be a planning week with very a very limited number of students allowed back. Many parts of the college will be out of bounds and there will a one way system in place for moving around. The library will be open but again the numbers will be limited.. When books are returned they will be quarantined for three days before being shelved. We were got given a specific list of what PPE equipment will be provided.
I actually spoke to one of my mates this morning who works for a very large clothing retailer. He said he got a call yesterday from his regional manager informing him that he would likely be going back to work on May 25 to prepare for their outlets to open in limited capacity on June 1. Said that this is what has apparently come from ‘official channels’ but that ultimately they’ve been told to wait and see what our dear leader says on Sunday.

Guess we’ll find out soon enough.
 
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