Covid 19 - The New Norm. Likes and Dislikes

With most governments you only generally know what you are told. That doesn't just apply to China.

But they are very different to the UK. They get things done, generally act quickly.

Have you been to China by the way?

Without rehashing the same old points there is an opportunity for people in this country to select what media and social media outlets they want when selecting how to find information. As you know the media and social media is state run in China and access to other sites isn’t possible unless you have a VPN (illegal).

The population and millions of low skilled/paid workers in the country means they have ample resource to get things done.

In some industries getting things done quickly/cheaply in the country has resulted in exploitation and death.

These issues aren’t exclusive to China but I do take issue with you seemingly continuing to suggest a country with a terrible track record on human rights, the continued persecution and attempted cleansing of Muslims and (until recently) complete lack of regard for environmental issues is some sort of beacon that we should aspire to become.

Not to mention we wouldn’t be having this discussion if Chinese animal welfare were even close to being half way decent.

(and yes I have travelled fairly extensively in China investigating human/labour and environmental violations)
 
Managed to get to Costa Rica just before covid struck so was lucky there. Was meant to be going to Benidorm in July, changed that to June next year and was booked to go Tenifefe last month, that was changed to September next year. Whats thats done is free up spare cash as we now have 2 holidays already booked and paid for. so the plan now is that fingers crossed we can get to Australia in early 2022, and with the money we haven't needed for holidays next year we are hoping that we ca afford to sit in the posh seats.
 
Without rehashing the same old points there is an opportunity for people in this country to select what media and social media outlets they want when selecting how to find information. As you know the media and social media is state run in China and access to other sites isn’t possible unless you have a VPN (illegal).

The population and millions of low skilled/paid workers in the country means they have ample resource to get things done.

In some industries getting things done quickly/cheaply in the country has resulted in exploitation and death.

These issues aren’t exclusive to China but I do take issue with you seemingly continuing to suggest a country with a terrible track record on human rights, the continued persecution and attempted cleansing of Muslims and (until recently) complete lack of regard for environmental issues is some sort of beacon that we should aspire to become.

Not to mention we wouldn’t be having this discussion if Chinese animal welfare were even close to being half way decent.

(and yes I have travelled fairly extensively in China investigating human/labour and environmental violations)

I note your comments and points. I am not saying China is perfect by any means.

What I am stating is the progress China has made in a lot of areas. I have witnessed first hand, living here in Asia and Hong Kong, knowing people in Hong Kong and China.

You could argue China is a fairly new capitalist country which transitioned in the 80's, 90's and even turn of the millennium.

As a country, in our history did Britain employ low skilled workers, both in the Britain but also our colonies? Did we exploit people in the past?

Don't forget Britain only signed up to the ECHR and the SDA and RRA in the 60's and 70's as a developed nation. Is Human Rights and history of "superiority" perfect, feel free to ask those in India, Malaysia, Caribbean, Africa and other places.

Generally the Chinese and indeed some of their customs and characteristics are not ideal. But they are IMPROVING in a lot of areas.
 
WFH not positive for you, spend more time with the family?
Less expenditure
More reason to explore the UK more?
My business , work as gone down 75 % My friend . The increase of Costs due to Covid-19 and the lack of work means our staff of 14 , are on 70% of their wages . I have a very difficult decision to make , how we can keep this all going and unfortunately the level of staff is no longer needed.
People lives have been turned upside down, and the enormity of all this will hit when people start losing jobs , homes and the entire world will struggle to recover from COVID-19.
Explore the UK more , what with lock - downs and people not allowed to travel, like football games, you mean ?
Expenditure , Yes great save some money , nah !
Families have lost loved ones to this COVID-19, who would still be here .
Yea , l am bitter . No positive here .
 
My business , work as gone down 75 % My friend . The increase of Costs due to Covid-19 and the lack of work means our staff of 14 , are on 70% of their wages . I have a very difficult decision to make , how we can keep this all going and unfortunately the level of staff is no longer needed.
People lives have been turned upside down, and the enormity of all this will hit when people start losing jobs , homes and the entire world will struggle to recover from COVID-19.
Explore the UK more , what with lock - downs and people not allowed to travel, like football games, you mean ?
Expenditure , Yes great save some money , nah !
Families have lost loved ones to this COVID-19, who would still be here .
Yea , l am bitter . No positive here .

What work is that brother, can any of us here on this board help? For SME's it has been challenging globally including here in Malaysia.

I have lots of colleagues that this summer have gone away to South Coast, etc for breaks. Not for football, but for holidays.

At times like these we have to scale back and minimise expenditure.

I see a positive as realising how we took some things for granted and how we can things differently or better in the future.
 
Without rehashing the same old points there is an opportunity for people in this country to select what media and social media outlets they want when selecting how to find information. As you know the media and social media is state run in China and access to other sites isn’t possible unless you have a VPN (illegal).

The population and millions of low skilled/paid workers in the country means they have ample resource to get things done.

In some industries getting things done quickly/cheaply in the country has resulted in exploitation and death.

These issues aren’t exclusive to China but I do take issue with you seemingly continuing to suggest a country with a terrible track record on human rights, the continued persecution and attempted cleansing of Muslims and (until recently) complete lack of regard for environmental issues is some sort of beacon that we should aspire to become.

Not to mention we wouldn’t be having this discussion if Chinese animal welfare were even close to being half way decent.

(and yes I have travelled fairly extensively in China investigating human/labour and environmental violations)
What work is that brother, can any of us here on this board help? For SME's it has been challenging globally including here in Malaysia.

I have lots of colleagues that this summer have gone away to South Coast, etc for breaks. Not for football, but for holidays.

At times like these we have to scale back and minimise expenditure.

I see a positive as realising how we took some things for granted and how we can things differently or better in the future.
I think carefreeoufc , could not explain any better , I don’t think you understand?!
“Times like theses , Scale back and minimise expenditure” ..... This is not a package holiday , where you can cut corners to save a few pence here and there.
“Taking things for granted“ again please read carefreeoufc post again , may be slowly so you can take it all in.
 
I think carefreeoufc , could not explain any better , I don’t think you understand?!
“Times like theses , Scale back and minimise expenditure” ..... This is not a package holiday , where you can cut corners to save a few pence here and there.
“Taking things for granted“ again please read carefreeoufc post again , may be slowly so you can take it all in.
I have read it, responded and partly disagree. Let's leave it there as I don't agree with a blame culture and finger pointing without looking in the mirror first.
 
What work is that brother, can any of us here on this board help? For SME's it has been challenging globally including here in Malaysia.

I have lots of colleagues that this summer have gone away to South Coast, etc for breaks. Not for football, but for holidays.

At times like these we have to scale back and minimise expenditure.

I see a positive as realising how we took some things for granted and how we can things differently or better in the future.
Points you don’t understand travel is what spreads this disease.
And you are on about “ Colleagues going away to the South Coast” You are not part of the Crewe creative management are you ? They seem to have a great understanding of COVID-19 toooooooo .
 
Points you don’t understand travel is what spreads this disease.
And you are on about “ Colleagues going away to the South Coast” You are not part of the Crewe creative management are you ? They seem to have a great understanding of COVID-19 toooooooo .

Travel doesn't spread the disease, people being irresponsible and not following SOP does.

I live in Malaysia but work for one of the largest global organisations with a sizeable presence in the UK. I have shared that there is a view that the UK were behind the curve in terms of managing C19 and social responsibilities.
 
This is an interesting debate and a thread worth reading, in my opinion. China is clearly intent on becoming a modernised capitalist society, but seems to be building this new economy on the backs of its huge population with scant regard for their rights, depending on a militaristic totalitarian regime to 'get things done'.

That said, let's not forget our own history. The world-leading industrial revolution starting in Britain from 1750 wouldn't have succeeded without an abundance of low paid, poverty-stricken workers to serve the mills and mines.

There seems to be an element of 'we did it, but you shouldn't be allowed to do it' which is difficult to justify.
 
This is an interesting debate and a thread worth reading, in my opinion. China is clearly intent on becoming a modernised capitalist society, but seems to be building this new economy on the backs of its huge population with scant regard for their rights, depending on a militaristic totalitarian regime to 'get things done'.

That said, let's not forget our own history. The world-leading industrial revolution starting in Britain from 1750 wouldn't have succeeded without an abundance of low paid, poverty-stricken workers to serve the mills and mines.

There seems to be an element of 'we did it, but you shouldn't be allowed to do it' which is difficult to justify.

It is simple to justify........... we did it in 1750, which is the best part of 300 years ago, and I like to think the world has moved on somewhat from there.
Who was it said about humanity repeating mistakes?

The flipside is our consumerist addiction to cheap tat...................
 
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It is simple to justify........... we did it in 1750, which is the best part of 300 years ago, and I like to think the world has moved on somewhat from there.
Who was it said about humanity repeating mistakes?

The flipside is our consumerist addiction to cheap tat...................
While I'm bright enough to get your point, the world might have moved on by 250 years in terms of time, but different countries develop - and have always developed - at different paces. It's too flippant to suggest that every country in 2020 should not repeat the past mistakes of other countries just because we're all living in the 'now'.

China is trying to catch up with the western world by all means available to it. One can understand that if not condone it.

And yes, China's desire to develop by any means possible is partly driven by our own consumer requirements.
 
My own point isn’t that we haven’t exploited people or we’ve not historically been absolute b@stards to many countries and their people it’s that I don’t agree with what i feel are a number of posts that suggest China is some sort of country we should aspire to be like.

There’s plenty wrong in this country (Boohoo most recently) and I could list many, many other things! Perhaps I’ve misread a number of posts from HKY but they seemingly suggest that China are some sort of bastion of democracy and how to do things the right way when they most certainly are not.

EDIT - And whilst they may well be looking at turning a corner whilst they continue to persecute and imprison approx 1.5 million Uyghurs who are being used in forced labour camps they’re apparent improvements will pale insignificant.
 
While I'm bright enough to get your point, the world might have moved on by 250 years in terms of time, but different countries develop - and have always developed - at different paces. It's too flippant to suggest that every country in 2020 should not repeat the past mistakes of other countries just because we're all living in the 'now'.

China is trying to catch up with the western world by all means available to it. One can understand that if not condone it.

And yes, China's desire to develop by any means possible is partly driven by our own consumer requirements.
Very good point Pete. And while they are doing it, there mentality is evolving as well which I applaud them for. Not long ago, you could argue were aggressive, bad mannered, etc but even that is progressing for the better.

They are playing catch up in so many industries, aerospace, motor manufacturing, trains and technology where other countries have the dominance for years or decades.
 
My own point isn’t that we haven’t exploited people or we’ve not historically been absolute b@stards to many countries and their people it’s that I don’t agree with what i feel are a number of posts that suggest China is some sort of country we should aspire to be like.

There’s plenty wrong in this country (Boohoo most recently) and I could list many, many other things! Perhaps I’ve misread a number of posts from HKY but they seemingly suggest that China are some sort of bastion of democracy and how to do things the right way when they most certainly are not.

EDIT - And whilst they may well be looking at turning a corner whilst they continue to persecute and imprison approx 1.5 million Uyghurs who are being used in forced labour camps they’re apparent improvements will pale insignificant.

Carefree. I am not at all saying they are "bastion of democracy" or even on the level of many countries. What I applaud them is the progression they have made in some areas over the last 10-30 years.
 
Missed out on a trip to Sardinia last year, somewhere Mrs M has always wanted to go, and will most probably not be making our Antigua trip next year as would rather keep the money in the bank at the moment. Its a pain, but then there is a global pandemic happening, so you need perspective on these things. I just don't get the entitled who HAVE to go on their foreign trips 'for my mental state' - if that is all that is keeping you sane then you have problems in real life you need to address.

Terrific point. I know most who have been quoted on this have simply had a microphone rammed into their face and blurted the first thing that has come out so you can maybe give some of them the benefit of the doubt, but I've heard some stories in the press where people are almost claiming that a holiday should be akin to a human right.

Get over yourselves. Any holiday is a luxury that we in the west can afford ourselves and stupidly take for granted. Just being able to take time off work and head somewhere you want to go for a week is hitting life's jackpot. Billions of people the world over will never have that. There are many people in this country who may never experience that. Consider that when you complain that your package holiday to Lanzarote falls through.

For those that have gone away this summer, I've read stories of some saying how good it was followed by 'you do have to wear a mask out and about', 'X was closed' and 'to Y you had to do Z'. How good was it then? It sounds compromised to me and I'd rather have a holiday on my terms, not just because I can.

I'll be very happy to jump back on the travelling wagon again when Covid measures are at an end, ie social distancing ended, masks a thing of the past, fully opened restaurants, galleries etc. In the meantime, I don't fancy a break with the wagging finger of Covid rules and regs over me.
 
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