International News Covid-19 .....

[YellowTaxi]

Thank goodness it was just " a bit of a snuffle*!
*unless you have underlying health issues or are old."

Imagine where we'd be if it had been serious. or we didn't have the wonderful strategising of our Prime Minister and his team.

 

[YellowTaxi]

So when the tracer app is launched, how many people are going to refuse to download or use it due to "civil liberties"?

I certainly am. The app probably won’t work, is managed by a private company and allows the government to sell your data at the end of the process

 

[SteMerritt]

The app probably won’t work

What are you basing that on? Your prejudices alone, or anything more substantial?

 

[ZeroTheHero]

I certainly am. The app probably won’t work, is managed by a private company and allows the government to sell your data at the end of the process

I shall be studying the Terms and Conditions and waiting for the dissection on it on t'Interent to find out what it REALLY does before installing it. Since I haven't been out of my house/garden for seven weeks, I can't imagine my stats will help much anyway!

 

[YellowTaxi]

What are you basing that on? Your prejudices alone, or anything more substantial?

Chiefly based on this article and comments from some commentators who I respect.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1257593777897836544

 

[Sarge]

I certainly am. The app probably won’t work, is managed by a private company and allows the government to sell your data at the end of the process

at least a third, if not more, of the population dont have smartphones ..... I share @YellowTaxi concerns that a private company are 'in charge' of an app and all the likely conspiracy theorys that could potentially go with it after CV19 has passed

And yes , Ive stopped using the mega invasive google chrome, though theres a degree of 'tracking' with all browsers etc

 

[YellowTaxi]

Then there’s this

https://twitter.com/x/status/1257318024761098244

But it also deals with this government preference for high tech flashy solutions done by a private company- if you want to do proper contact tracing you need to involve local authorities which is how Germany Greece and other countries have done so well.

The government hates local authorities so it won’t give them funds

https://twitter.com/x/status/1255496348989865989

 

[Gary Baldi]

How many people on here have location services turned on their phone (default)? Or have apps like Facebook/whatsapp etc installed that can look at their contacts, etc? Or remain logged into the search engine of choice?

The NHS app is the least of your privacy worries!

 

[SteMerritt]

Chiefly based on this article and comments from some commentators who I respect.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1257593777897836544

The technical issues with Bluetooth have been talked about on tech sites for the last few weeks, along with power consumption. The solution seems to go against Apple and Google advice on how to achieve the desired results, so a comparison of both systems will be interesting. Too early to say which will work better, but I just can't see either proposal making much difference.

 

[Gary Baldi]

The technical issues with Bluetooth have been talked about on tech sites for the last few weeks, along with power consumption. The solution seems to go against Apple and Google advice on how to achieve the desired results, so a comparison of both systems will be interesting. Too early to say which will work better, but I just can't see either proposal making much difference.

And importantly... Using a pilot scheme will hopefully provide real world feedback on the app. I would be surprised if it goes fully live by month end. It seems pie in the sky to get it out any sooner.

I never understood why Bluetooth was the method of choice, but then again an app seems a compromise solution to remove lockdown that realistically helps no one unless everyone uses it.

It relies on a goldilocks zone of circumstances, but I'm sure if they did nothing, the same moaners would be condemning the Govt, Cummings, Gove, Johnson, Hancock, etc for not caring etc, etc.

 

[SteMerritt]

Then there’s this

https://twitter.com/x/status/1257318024761098244

But it also deals with this government preference for high tech flashy solutions done by a private company- if you want to do proper contact tracing you need to involve local authorities which is how Germany Greece and other countries have done so well.

The government hates local authorities so it won’t give them funds

https://twitter.com/x/status/1255496348989865989

From that first link...

"The app will use Bluetooth technology to register a “contact” when people come within 6ft of each other for at least 15 minutes."

Now, when you are going about your daily business, how often is this rule going to be triggered? I've been out for an hour running today, it wouldn't have triggered at all. I don't think it would have triggered when I was at Tesco last week either.

 

[Gary Baldi]

From that first link...

"The app will use Bluetooth technology to register a “contact” when people come within 6ft of each other for at least 15 minutes."

Now, when you are going about your daily business, how often is this rule going to be triggered? I've been out for an hour running today, it wouldn't have triggered at all. I don't think it would have triggered when I was at Tesco last week either.

And the issue of false positives is a hard to code away. If you are sat inside and someone stops outside in Bluetooth range, is that a contact? Or what happens for those not living in detached houses?

Theoretically, an app is an easier implementation where population density is low. The more people that live in an area, the more complicated it is program and account for. If you live in a high rise flat, how does an app help?

 

[SteMerritt]

If you live in a high rise flat, how does an app help?

You could probably code it to deactivate when you connect to your own WiFi to prevent this happening, but it's still a fudge of course.

 

[Gary Baldi]

You could probably code it to deactivate when you connect to your own WiFi to prevent this happening, but it's still a fudge of course.

And there are many other scenarios. NFC could a decent alternative, but I guess Bluetooth is more prominently implemented technology wise,

However, in the round, what more can any Govt do? Our culture in the UK is very different to places where a more stricter approach has been done - South Korea and Vietnam are 2 examples. Other than painting signs on sufferers, or suspected sufferers front doors, what to do?

 

[MarkG]

From that first link...

"The app will use Bluetooth technology to register a “contact” when people come within 6ft of each other for at least 15 minutes."

Now, when you are going about your daily business, how often is this rule going to be triggered? I've been out for an hour running today, it wouldn't have triggered at all. I don't think it would have triggered when I was at Tesco last week either.

well when you look at the example of the Covidiots ...
the secret underground network of hairdressers >15 minutes
driving in a car to watch shooting stars > 15 minutes
having friends call round at the house and sitting on the balcony > 15 minutes

Anyway, this 15 minute idea gives me an idea of how the experts think the infection spreads.
So being in a confined space (indoors, a car, at work, on a bus, or working in a care home /hospital ) for 15 minutes with a spreader is riskier than being outside running past people. Though perhaps if you go running for an hour with a spreader that is riskier than just running past someone.

Wasn't one of the first superspreaders someone who had been staying in a ski lodge in Italy and about 15 people all got infected? Clearly that's a lot of time together in a communal area.

 

[Steve McAvoy]

And there are many other scenarios. NFC could a decent alternative, but I guess Bluetooth is more prominently implemented technology wise,

However, in the round, what more can any Govt do? Our culture in the UK is very different to places where a more stricter approach has been done - South Korea and Vietnam are 2 examples. Other than painting signs on sufferers, or suspected sufferers front doors, what to do?

What more can the Government do? How about doing the job they are elected to do. The job people who actively seek to be elected representatives are eager to do. The relentless ‘ramping up any day now’, the endless ‘unprecedented’ in every bloody response. Our healthcare system is apparently the envy of the developed world, how on earth have we managed to lose so many of our fellow countrymen before ‘their time?’

 

[PottersRightBoot]

What more can the Government do? How about doing the job they are elected to do. The job people who actively seek to be elected representatives are eager to do. The relentless ‘ramping up any day now’, the endless ‘unprecedented’ in every bloody response. Our healthcare system is apparently the envy of the developed world, how on earth have we managed to lose so many of our fellow countrymen before ‘their time?’

Because we are a crowded island, a European transport hub and home of the biggest city in Europe and have other very significant metropolitan areas? Because , we like the US have more than our fair share of overweight unhealthy men? Because there seems to be strong correlation between having a highly developed health system which keeps many, many, fundamentally unhealthy people alive and COV19 death rates ? (Sorry I haven't got the source material to hand. but there are definitely trusted surveys around showing this.) Because our NHS is an unwieldy cumbersome beast which did not deal with key logistics and procurement issues at all well? Because the Government failed to act quickly enough to involve the private sector with testing/PPE? Because our leader and main political driver got ill and then nearly died of the virus in the eye of the pandemic?

Suggest we all need to look at the number of 'excess deaths ' over the overall pandemic period on a country by country basis before concluding that the Government need to be drummed out. This is just the end of the beginning . It is too early to start pointing fingers. Very disappointed to read cynical unproven comments on this thread that contact tracing won't work. Why shouldn't it? It worked in South Korea.

 

[Essexyellows]

UK 'top' of the European league for CV19 fatalities

UK now has highest coronavirus death toll in Europe

New figures from Office of National Statistics for England and Wales, alongside Scotland and Northern Ireland, shows death toll of 32,313

www.independent.co.uk

I would side with Chris Whitty et al who clearly said wait until the end to see the genuine numbers. The UK numbers "lag" for many and varied reasons, we are also counting anyone with Cov-19 written on a death certificate, it is commonly know that being symptomatic doesn`t mean the patient had it, it could a number of other viruses, and we don`t test dead people.

@YellowTaxi ........................... I will repeat myself and say, for the majority of people Covid-19 is not serious.
190,000+ confirmed cases with 29,000 deaths means (roughly) 161,000+ people haven`t died.
I would also add that there will be tens, if not hundreds of thousands of the population who may have had it in Feb/Mar and haven`t been tested so the number of people who have had it and not died will be far higher than 161k.
Basic maths.

 

[Oxymoron]

There is now speculation that CV was present in the general population prior to China making public the infections in Wuhan

https://www.businessinsider.com/ita...ed-coronavirus-cases-january-2020-4?r=US&IR=T
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52385558
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52526554

I had the ubiquitous fever, hacking cough & "wheezy breathing" which started a couple of days after the Boxing Day match and I spent three days confined to bed and was ill enough to miss the FA cup game on 4th January; I have heard of others with similar stories locally

 

[ZeroTheHero]

Unfortunately, the figures ALREADY tell you that the government has handled this pretty badly. Not a 'political' point - I'd be saying the same no matter who was in power.

What could they have done? They could have locked the country down quicker, they could *still* be clamping down harder on Covidiots, they could be co-operating more with Europe (rather than 'losing' emails, for example!), they could have stopped flights in earlier (there were some startling figures on Radio 4 earlier on about how many people had flown in AFTER the lockdown, but I will check what they said before regurgitating it!), they could have set up mobile testing stations earlier etc.

We ARE going to have to wait until the numbers are crunched 'afterwards' (although I suspect the results of that will depend on who is doing the crunching), and of course we will have the 'you cannot compare us to other countries' nonsense and the 'a big scientist told me to do it then ran away' excuses that the odious Priti Patel is already wheeling out...