General Accounts are up

[MarkG]

Probably because as a small private limited company, OUFC are under no legal obligation to have accounts audited nor are they obliged to publish a P&L statement.

3. Large profit on player sales last year (Johnson mainly) and the year before as well as an overall increase in player salaries on playing in league 1 for the last two seasons 2017/18 and 2018/19. [edit: And why use ‘delta’ as an alternative to ‘change’ on a football message board ? ]
4. Apart from the exec directors like N McW , directors fees would just increase amounts due to the parent company. I’d imagine the board are waiting for some other cash out to claim their consultancy fees.

 

[MarkG]

Anyway you could be a fan of a club where the owners have borrowed £10M or so from some American investment experts and left it secured against land and property of that club.

 

[Ox4Eva]

I am not an expert but these accounts are maybe a wake up call for those who think the championship is the promise land. I have said various times that we do not have revenue streams or the infrastructure to support the club in the championship!

 

[Golden Dr Otto]

Probably because as a small private limited company, OUFC are under no legal obligation to have accounts audited nor are they obliged to publish a P&L statement.

A small private limited company with a recent history of poor financial management and an almost doubling of debt in just a couple of years to 17m gbp.

The lack of a legal obligation doesn’t mean that you don’t do it. Given questions over what the strategy and intent is, and the “silent influencers” involvement, I think they would be reasonable questions for the supporters body to ask. Unless they don’t wish to understand the structure of our losses and capability of the management to safeguard the club.

If I had nothing to hide I think I’d probably do it as a matter of course as an owner particularly given the remote nature of my involvement ??‍

 

[Golden Dr Otto]

3. [edit: And why use ‘delta’ as an alternative to ‘change’ on a football message board ? ]

I’ll be sure to update once you’ve let me know the rest of the English language limitations you’re proposing for the forum Mark. I don’t really understand what you’re getting at but a rather bizarre point to add to the debate

 

[warksox]

A small private limited company with a recent history of poor financial management and an almost doubling of debt in just a couple of years to 17m gbp.

The lack of a legal obligation doesn’t mean that you don’t do it. Given questions over what the strategy and intent is, and the “silent influencers” involvement, I think they would be reasonable questions for the supporters body to ask. Unless they don’t wish to understand the structure of our losses and capability of the management to safeguard the club.

If I had nothing to hide I think I’d probably do it as a matter of course as an owner particularly given the remote nature of my involvement ??‍

It's very easy to demand this when you're not the one picking up the bill. A financial audit of accounts, even for a small company, costs £'000's.
And what will have been achieved?
Tiger will have lent the auditors his watch, and they will have told him the time.
As a fan, you will see an extra signature in the filed accounts, nothing more.
The accounts are just a snapshot on one particular day in time. The latest are already 8 months out of date. Even with a P&L, they are never going to give the answer to your issues on increasing debt, strategy, intent etc.
If you want answers to those questions then I agree, Oxvox is the best route, but I think we have to be realistic about the level of detail that is likely to be shared.

 

[MC Yellow]

Could a qualified accountant provide a simple review of these accounts so we don't get lots of speculation? Mark G?

The figures speak for themselves really...

A significant loss of just over £4m in the year to 30th June 2019, which is why the Balance Sheet has deteriorated further.

The club is worthless and heavily in debt.

After 30th June 2019, “post balance sheet events” as regards net players transfers is in excess of £4m. Whilst this does not feature until the 30th June 2020 figures it is significant and therefore worthy of mention in these accounts.

Given that in the year to 30th June 2020 we have player surpluses and potentially higher TV and Cup revenue together with improved crowds, a profit for 30th June 2020 has to be in the cards. How much that is and to what extent it eats into the historic deficit will not be known until this time next year. I suspect it will still be minimal.

Going Concern note 1.2 - basically says the club is only able to continue to trade with the support of the parent company. Pretty much what we all know anyway. Pull the plug and fail to find someone to take over, we go to the wall. Again, nothing we all didn’t know anyway and similar for a significant number of football clubs.

Size of company means no audit required - no conspiracy here.

No requirement to publish detailed Profit and Loss - no conspiracy here (all small companies do it). Why on earth put sensitive financial information in the public domain for all and sundry to see?

 

[OxfordYankee]

The figures speak for themselves really...

A significant loss of just over £4m in the year to 30th June 2019, which is why the Balance Sheet has deteriorated further.

The club is worthless and heavily in debt.

After 30th June 2019, “post balance sheet events” as regards net players transfers is in excess of £4m. Whilst this does not feature until the 30th June 2020 figures it is significant and therefore worthy of mention in these accounts.

Given that in the year to 30th June 2020 we have player surpluses and potentially higher TV and Cup revenue together with improved crowds, a profit for 30th June 2020 has to be in the cards. How much that is and to what extent it eats into the historic deficit will not be known until this time next year. I suspect it will still be minimal.

Going Concern note 1.2 - basically says the club is only able to continue to trade with the support of the parent company. Pretty much what we all know anyway. Pull the plug and fail to find someone to take over, we go to the wall. Again, nothing we all didn’t know anyway and similar for a significant number of football clubs.

Size of company means no audit required - no conspiracy here.

No requirement to publish detailed Profit and Loss - no conspiracy here (all small companies do it). Why on earth put sensitive financial information in the public domain for all and sundry to see?

The owners of most companies don’t constantly brag about their belief in transparency, though.

I guess they have a different definition of that word.

 

[Upthecowboys]

I am not an expert but these accounts are maybe a wake up call for those who think the championship is the promise land. I have said various times that we do not have revenue streams or the infrastructure to support the club in the championship!

Why couldn’t the club just commit to increasing the wage bill by a similar amount to the increase they would receive in solidarity payments and TV revenue.

Championship clubs get around £4 million more in solidarity payments than league 1 teams. Not sure what the increase in TV revenue money is but could be similar - did just google it but no joy, anyone know?

Just use the increase, sign new players with contracts linked to division we’re in i.e reduce if relegated. TV and solidarity money could be an £8 mill difference between the 2 divisions.

Also some of the transfer fees for Championship players moving on are eye watering, certainly a step up in fees we are currently getting. Keep the player transfer model in place etc.

Yes it would be very difficult to survive but it wouldn’t be impossible and we’d have some fantastic games. If done sensibly, without pressure from the fans we could afford a crack at the Championship.

 

[MC Yellow]

The owners of most companies don’t constantly brag about their belief in transparency, though.

I guess they have a different definition of that word.

You are trying too hard to poke at stick at the board here I think.

Plenty of detail in there to sufficiently demonstrate the state of the company‘s financial position.

You must be so disappointed you don’t have their bank security log in details too.

 

[Ox4Eva]

Why couldn’t the club just commit to increasing the wage bill by a similar amount to the increase they would receive in solidarity payments and TV revenue.

Championship clubs get around £4 million more in solidarity payments than league 1 teams. Not sure what the increase in TV revenue money is but could be similar - did just google it but no joy, anyone know?

Just use the increase, sign new players with contracts linked to division we’re in i.e reduce if relegated. TV and solidarity money could be an £8 mill difference between the 2 divisions.

Also some of the transfer fees for Championship players moving on are eye watering, certainly a step up in fees we are currently getting. Keep the player transfer model in place etc.

Yes it would be very difficult to survive but it wouldn’t be impossible and we’d have some fantastic games. If done sensibly, without pressure from the fans we could afford a crack at the Championship.

What so offer 2 or 3 year deals, then if we we got relegated back down from the championship, what happens then?

We would still be contracted to pay the salaries, no championship level player is going to sign a contract accepting a lower wage if we get relegated..

 

[Yellow River]

Why couldn’t the club just commit to increasing the wage bill by a similar amount to the increase they would receive in solidarity payments and TV revenue.

Championship clubs get around £4 million more in solidarity payments than league 1 teams. Not sure what the increase in TV revenue money is but could be similar - did just google it but no joy, anyone know?

Just use the increase, sign new players with contracts linked to division we’re in i.e reduce if relegated. TV and solidarity money could be an £8 mill difference between the 2 divisions.

Also some of the transfer fees for Championship players moving on are eye watering, certainly a step up in fees we are currently getting. Keep the player transfer model in place etc.

Yes it would be very difficult to survive but it wouldn’t be impossible and we’d have some fantastic games. If done sensibly, without pressure from the fans we could afford a crack at the Championship.

Without pressure from fans would be hugely important. If we got to the Championship it should realistically be a free hit of a season.

However I suspect the usual suspects on these boards and ringing into RadOx will be demanding that the owner makes more funds available, sell to someone who can fund us in the Championship, sack the manager etc, etc.

 

[Brahma]

I am not an expert but these accounts are maybe a wake up call for those who think the championship is the promise land. I have said various times that we do not have revenue streams or the infrastructure to support the club in the championship!

Getting to the Championship and getting relegated AND IF RAN DAY-TO-DAY on a sensible basis, then you'd bring that ridiculous debt down.

I haven't yet decided what my opinion is yet on running up one of the biggest ANNUAL debt increases seen in recent years/decades.

I remember IL running this and everyone up in arms that we had a debt level of £4m.

 

[Paul Cannell]

Yes, quite. This seems like one in the eye for the 'club must be run sustainably' lobby.

The 'not Water-Eaton' development had better come off or we're going to be right in the shit.

 

[DannyW]

What so offer 2 or 3 year deals, then if we we got relegated back down from the championship, what happens then?

We would still be contracted to pay the salaries, no championship level player is going to sign a contract accepting a lower wage if we get relegated..

Yes follow the Sunderland model I think is what's being suggested. That's worked well

 

[Essexyellows]

Accounts are a snapshot of where the business was some 8 month`s ago. There is enough missing income and investment going on to suggest that the owners don`t share the same short term vision most of us seem to have. Probably also explains why they are multi-millionaires and most of us aren`t.

"Debt" is very objective, its great fun spending it the issues come when you can`t service it.

This season has been one of the best for a very long time, and it isn`t over yet with another potential trip to Wembley, which is almost becoming our second home.............. never thought I would think that in `86!

 

[m]

Yes follow the Sunderland model I think is what's being suggested. That's worked well

You have to take calculated risks though, Bolton did and managed to get a run in Europe!

We should try and be like them.

 

[DannyW]

You have to take calculated risks though, Bolton did and managed to get a run in Europe!

We should try and be like them.

That's so funny, another example of not sustainable or am I mistaken and that's another Bolton down the bottom of this league?

 

[m]

That's so funny, another example of not sustainable or am I mistaken and that's another Bolton down the bottom of this league?

I meant Bury.

 

[Manorlounger]

With reference to the mounting debt and how that would be covered, perhaps a look back to the AGM held in the summer which OxVox reported as follows:
We also asked how the debt was being covered and who was liable. We were told that it was arranged via inter-company loans and that there were criteria in place that needed to be satisfied before the money could be reclaimed. One of the criteria was that the club reach the Premiership by 2025

This was from the club finance director Tim Davies. Tiger and Zaki were in attendance so it may be assumed that they were in accord with this statement.
This is all available via the OxVox website under news.
At the time it was said that OxVox would be seeking more information regarding the debt and how it was to be covered however, that information has not surfaced as yet. Perhaps that should be another subject to be followed up?

it should be noted that any finance for a stadium would not appear in the club's accounts. It would be nice to have some sort of update by season end but, this may not be possible given the way that things are at the moment with Covid-19 etc.