Fan's View Pitch Invasions

[WuTang]

But bans and punishments only come after the horse has bolted, I'm talking about preventative measures that clubs need to put in place to keep the players safe.

The fact that your first response is to come up with and absurd hypothetical about all fans being banned is that you're not willing to debate this in good faith and take the safety of the players into consideration. I think it's quite selfish to bemoan prevention of players being attacked because it would impede on your ability to celebrate on some grass instead of on concrete terracing. You don't own the stadium or even rent it, so it's not up to you to decide where you're allowed to go.

You clearly have not read many of my posts with very sensible and simple solutions to allow this to continue. Ironically the same solutions that are utilised in other countries with success. The fact you just skim read and ignore these points shows you are not willing to debate this in good faith and would prefer to scream for blanket bans instead of looking to ensure the safety of players AND fans whilst allowing pitch invasions to continue.

 

[Osei Yaw]

The reason I say it comes down to cancel culture stems from having German connections and watching football in Germany as a home and away fan.

Drinking beer - Banned in England due to the minority who might ruin it. Germany, focus on punishing the minority who drink too much, but don't punish the majority of well behaved fans who can drink and behave (and plenty can't!)

Standing and return of safe standing - Banned in top tiers of England and facing long process to reinstate due to a minority who could ruin it. Germany, traditional terracing, despite plenty of fan incidents and occasional violence, they do not punish the majority by banning it, they punish the minority and let rest enjoy it.

Pitch invasions - England calls to ban them. Germany, they can lead to violence at times but they focus on punishing the minority, not the majority who enjoy them sensibly like Stuttgart surviving on the final day.

It's football culture, you can treat it how you want to, I prefer the German methods personally.

I've been to a fair few Bundesliga games and agree completely about how things are done better over there. Standing, drinking, free public transport, cheap ticket prices... the list goes on. But then the German ownership model is of course very different (better) than here, and fans are considered a much higher priority. If we want the same results as Germany, we have to adopt all the same approaches across the board. I saw the Accrington chairman said he doesn't want to have to pay more for police and stewards to solve the problem as that just adds onto the ticket price. We already have a situation where watching League 2 football costs more than top sides in the Bundesliga, so ultimately more stewards and more police will punish the 99% of innocents by making them pay more whilst feeling like they need supervision.

So I think you're right, that part of the solution is to throw the book at the offenders who cross the line and assault players (the crossbar breakers need a slap on the wrist too). The problem is, we're also in a situation where players, club staff and officials will be fearful of getting whacked as soon as a final whistle has gone, which is simply not on and does no fan any favours, so it really needs fans to self police and ostracise those that cross the line. The other issue as I see it (which is along the lines of what @Big Ron has said) is that the whole thing sets any progression around how fans are portrayed further back, because the powers that be will simply say 'oh look, they can't behave, how terrible, stick a cage round them and charge more so the idiots can't afford to attend.' And the solution to that is fan groups advocating on behalf of fans to try and open up proper conversations with the powers that be, because if we all just shout 'cancel culture!' at them, then it's an easy way for the big powers that only care about TV rights and global brand to construe that we all think spear tackling the opposition centre forward is fair game.

 

[WuTang]

I've been to a fair few Bundesliga games and agree completely about how things are done better over there. Standing, drinking, free public transport, cheap ticket prices... the list goes on. But then the German ownership model is of course very different (better) than here, and fans are considered a much higher priority. If we want the same results as Germany, we have to adopt all the same approaches across the board. I saw the Accrington chairman said he doesn't want to have to pay more for police and stewards to solve the problem as that just adds onto the ticket price. We already have a situation where watching League 2 football costs more than top sides in the Bundesliga, so ultimately more stewards and more police will punish the 99% of innocents by making them pay more whilst feeling like they need supervision.

So I think you're right, that part of the solution is to throw the book at the offenders who cross the line and assault players (the crossbar breakers need a slap on the wrist too). The problem is, we're also in a situation where players, club staff and officials will be fearful of getting whacked as soon as a final whistle has gone, which is simply not on and does no fan any favours, so it really needs fans to self police and ostracise those that cross the line. The other issue as I see it (which is along the lines of what @Big Ron has said) is that the whole thing sets any progression around how fans are portrayed further back, because the powers that be will simply say 'oh look, they can't behave, how terrible, stick a cage round them and charge more so the idiots can't afford to attend.' And the solution to that is fan groups advocating on behalf of fans to try and open up proper conversations with the powers that be, because if we all just shout 'cancel culture!' at them, then it's an easy way for the big powers that only care about TV rights and global brand to construe that we all think spear tackling the opposition centre forward is fair game.

Great post. Certainly no advocate of increasing police and stewards at all games, purely ones where a pitch invasion is probable or even remotely possible. These are well known in advance so forward planning is possible along with routines in place if such an event occurs in order to protect players and staff. The stewards at the City game were very well organised and protected the tunnel area magnificently, no fans could get anywhere near and they created a safe space for players and staff. They just needs a few more on hand to guide players into this area swiftly.

 

[chuckbert]

If you want to do this at low cost, fans have to take responsibility.

 

[Scrongo]

Have people & society &football fans changed that much, since this book was wrote ????

 

[oldabingdonian]

Have people & society &football fans changed that much, since this book was wrote ???

Yes. See my post above. More options at the weekend, a subtly different social attitude towards physical violence, and an even more self-interested media.

 

[MarkG]

I think the recent pitch invasions are down to an overall decline in fan behaviour in recent years. Poundland psychologists will say it's pent up post-lockdown aggression coming out - I put it down to drink and drunks, copycat behaviour from those who have gone before and narcissistic, 'lock what I just did' preening from those who can't go five seconds without filming themselves on their phone.

I reckon a combination of all of those points (presumably you mean drink and drugs).

I guess youths have lost two years growing up time in lockdown and have maybe lost some awareness of other people

As well as youths, everybody in the country had nearly two years of various forms of lockdown and Covid restrictions.
So we all missed going to matches, socialising with friends, birthdays, stag-dos etc. Even when matches were back on, we had to wear face coverings and everybody was more mindful of social distancing and respect for others.
This end of season is the first that we have been 'free' with nearly all covid restrictions gone, so I think the pitch invastions are a reaction to having two years of being told what to do. Particularly the younger from late teens to early 20s who have had at least a year of restrictions on what should be an age when you can enjoy yourself before they grow up and start worrying about bills and jobs and family.

 

[boogaloo]

There seems to be an alarming increase in pitch invasions. Not sure what's driving it - could be booze/drugs, but could also be the social media trend (Bell-end runs on to the pitch, takes a selfie, sends to his mates and says "Look where I am, look how big and clever I am").

It really does need to be stamped on. Over the past week, we had Billy Sharp and Robin Olsen assaulted. People can say "It's passion" and that the players need to connect with the players, but when you have 500-1000 heavily beered up idiots running towards you, I don't care who you are - that is f**king scary, and players, just like you and I have the right to feel safe in their workplace (the field of play).

Also, do we just wait until something really serious happens, such as the stabbing of tennis star Monica Seles back in 1993?

Surely entering the pitch without permission is trespassing. You have video surveillance throughout the ground how about fining each and every person jumping over the railings the maximum £2500. They'll soon learn

Unauthorised encampments: Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022 factsheet

www.gov.uk

 

[Scrongo]

Yes. See my post above. More options at the weekend, a subtly different social attitude towards physical violence, and an even more self-interested media.

I think you'll find, history has got a bad habit of repeating itself.

 

[horseman]

I think what appears to be getting missed, is that you can prevent/dea/identify with the odd individual but doing so with hundreds is another matter.

The fact that a few Hooligans were/are allowed to run across a terrace to attack or fight whoever gets in the way is exactly why certain measures were put in place, it's so easy to say deal with them but don't forget You, your family just might be at the end of that charge/attack. As was the case at Vale where some innocent Gentleman got hit with a pyro cage thrown into a crowd, others had to endure bottles etc. What that has done is have people wanting to seek revenge when the 2 sides next meet and likewise some innocent Vale fans could be caught up in it.

This latest stuff has led and will lead to further such copycat incidents in the name of celebration or relief, at the moment it has the flame flickering slightly but it needs to be dealt with rapidly before some see it has their opportunity to once again stain the game.

 

[horseman]

Great post. Certainly no advocate of increasing police and stewards at all games, purely ones where a pitch invasion is probable or even remotely possible. These are well known in advance so forward planning is possible along with routines in place if such an event occurs in order to protect players and staff. The stewards at the City game were very well organised and protected the tunnel area magnificently, no fans could get anywhere near and they created a safe space for players and staff. They just needs a few more on hand to guide players into this area swiftly.

There was a time when seconds before blowing the whistle the ref would signal the move to the tunnel, there is nothing you can do to stop anyone who is intent on going on the pitch from doing so, having stewards in certain place may seem an answer but the moment they or any official staff etc begin any planned procedure moments before the end will just be a signal for those intent on doing so to begin their invasion.

 

[horseman]

There seems to be an alarming increase in pitch invasions. Not sure what's driving it - could be booze/drugs, but could also be the social media trend (Bell-end runs on to the pitch, takes a selfie, sends to his mates and says "Look where I am, look how big and clever I am").

It really does need to be stamped on. Over the past week, we had Billy Sharp and Robin Olsen assaulted. People can say "It's passion" and that the players need to connect with the players, but when you have 500-1000 heavily beered up idiots running towards you, I don't care who you are - that is f**king scary, and players, just like you and I have the right to feel safe in their workplace (the field of play).

Also, do we just wait until something really serious happens, such as the stabbing of tennis star Monica Seles back in 1993?

Surely entering the pitch without permission is trespassing. You have video surveillance throughout the ground how about fining each and every person jumping over the railings the maximum £2500. They'll soon learn

Unauthorised encampments: Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022 factsheet

www.gov.uk

May seem so to sensible folk but in this "time to pay" Make a derisory offer" culture,the fine is zilch in real terms as a prevention

 

[Witney Yellow]

Like somebody said earlier this week ''It's only a matter of time before somebody gets seriously hurt!''
Us football supporters are not allowed onto the field of play for obvious reasons.
The players, match officials, stewards, coaching staff all need to be shown a certain level of respect and be able to go about their work in a safe environment.
If just one person steps over the white line there is no way of knowing what their intent might be.
If thousands do it together it just makes it an uncontrollable and potentially dangerous situation.
You might be just celebrating and having a good time but unfortunately the person next to you might be a complete nutcase!
You would think that having been in lockdown for so long people would be just so happy to be back at a football match.
However, there are worrying signs that poor behaviour at football is on the increase again from local grassroots matches right up to international level.
I'm happy to clap, cheer, sing and enjoy watching my team from the safety of my seat, let's allow the players and staff some safety too.
Love and peace.

 

[OUFCGav]

Cancel culture is rife. Celebratory pitch invasions have been part and parcel of English football for 100 years.
Yet after a few incidents in 2022 they have to be banned?

Yes running onto the pitch is illegal but that has always been waived to allow the fantastic outpouring emotions at an end of season game or huge achievement.

I thought after events of the past we had moved on from blaming all football fans for the actions of an individual. Tens of thousands of fans entered the pitch in various matches around the country in the past week and celebrated impeccably. They ran on to celebrate with their players, players were seen on fans shoulders having a great time singing and celebrating.

This happens every season and it's a joy to watch. There'll always be a couple of idiots amongst thousands.

The referee and opposition are often straight down the tunnel with the help of stewards, but in these games where incidents have occured the stewards are nowhere to be seen. Often spread around the perimeter to "stop" a pitch invasion but just letting fans through anyway. Why can't they simply arrange 11 stewards to run on to guide the players off? Why can't they be on the field during a penalty shootout? Or ready to run on and guide a team off?

The security teams never act on these occasions, surely that's what they are employed for? Would take the bare minimum in terms of organising pre-match.

And as for the Villa keeper "incident" today, I've watched it back 6 times and not one City fan touches him. City fans celebrated in good spirit as far as I watched.

The Forest fan has been jailed, and we are waiting to see what happens to the Sheffield United striker who kicked a forest fan multiple times on the floor, but that somehow got very little news time. The same can be said for Patrick Vieira kicking an Everton fan who swore at him, why was the opposition manager going onto the pitch from his dugout to mix with fans? Why the need to react violently? The media and pundits brushed it straight under the carpet along with the McBurnie incident.

Deal with isolated incidents and move on without crying to cancel every last shred of emotion football actually has left.

"The same can be said for Patrick Vieira kicking an Everton fan who swore at him, why was the opposition manager going onto the pitch from his dugout to mix with fans? " he was going to the dressing room - the away dressing room at Goodison is still in a portacabin in the car park with the entrance/exit being in the corner by the away fans.

 

[Marked Ox]

If you banned all vehicles off the road ALL road accidents would be solved too!

A pedestrian would still trip over somewhere.

 

[WuTang]

"The same can be said for Patrick Vieira kicking an Everton fan who swore at him, why was the opposition manager going onto the pitch from his dugout to mix with fans? " he was going to the dressing room - the away dressing room at Goodison is still in a portacabin in the car park with the entrance/exit being in the corner by the away fans.

He was walking in the opposite direction to this, by the way.

 

[horseman]

If you banned all vehicles off the road ALL road accidents would be solved too!

A pedestrian would still trip over somewhere


Would be no Football or anything else because how do teams,fans etc get there

I'll get my coat

 

[Wallop]

At a time when our future is to be decided over Stratfield Brake, I truly hope that our fans realise the consequences of their actions in and around the stadium.

And don't give any of the same shite that football is about passion as a way to excuse any actions. You can be passionate without ruining the experience for everyone else.

That’s not what my wife says! I thank you.

 

[Marked Ox]

There seems to be an alarming increase in pitch invasions. Not sure what's driving it - could be booze/drugs, but could also be the social media trend (Bell-end runs on to the pitch, takes a selfie, sends to his mates and says "Look where I am, look how big and clever I am").

It really does need to be stamped on. Over the past week, we had Billy Sharp and Robin Olsen assaulted. People can say "It's passion" and that the players need to connect with the players, but when you have 500-1000 heavily beered up idiots running towards you, I don't care who you are - that is f**king scary, and players, just like you and I have the right to feel safe in their workplace (the field of play).

Also, do we just wait until something really serious happens, such as the stabbing of tennis star Monica Seles back in 1993?

Surely entering the pitch without permission is trespassing. You have video surveillance throughout the ground how about fining each and every person jumping over the railings the maximum £2500. They'll soon learn

Unauthorised encampments: Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022 factsheet

www.gov.uk

Also had the Scummer McKirdy targeted by a group of Port Vale neanderthals and it required quite a few team mates to step in and protect him. Another Sheff Utd player had issues whilst applauding his own fans and had to stand up to some Forest neanderthals whilst the stewards/Police took their sweet time to get there.

 

[battman]

He was walking in the opposite direction to this, by the way.

So you're saying it's Viera's fault really because he was walking the wrong way on the pitch, rather than it being the fans to blame for invading the pitch in the first place?