International News Covid-19 .....

[radicalox]

Odds only 50/50 once in ICU.
If ventilator needed, then chances of surviving shrink considerably.

Yep.
Although it is possible he went in "earlier" than a normal member of the public would have. I.e the considerations of waiting until the disease reaches a certain threshold before taking up a bed in icu would likely be lowered for Boris.(no.10 are saying his movement into icu was "precautionary" incase he needs additional care - obviously we should treat that with some skeptisim)
I guess maybe he would also have potential access to Extracorporeal membrane oxygenation, of which there are only around 15 in the uk, which most normal people likely wouldn't get access too. I think this could keep him alive for a spell even if his lungs completely pack up.

So overall I think his odds are probably better than the standard stats, but point still stands , it is extremely serious and there is a real chance he might not pull though.

 

[MC Yellow]

You know that wasn't the question.

So are they guidelines or instructions? I'm confused...

You are being pedantic.

Order, demand, instruction, advice, request........ whatever you want to call it, it all amounts to the same.

We all know what we need to do to avoid the spread of the virus.

Really no need to get yourself in a kerfuffle.

 

[m]

Here are the dictionary definitions to help your confusion...

plural noun: guidelines
1. a general rule, principle, or piece of advice.

plural noun: instructions
1.
a direction or order.

Thanks, I know you mean well.

As I see it: everyone with half a brain knows what they should be doing but there has been sufficient wooliness in the message to allow self-justification for those who seek to take the P**s.

 

[m]

You are being pedantic.

Order, demand, instruction, advice, request........ whatever you want to call it, it all amounts to the same.

We all know what we need to do to avoid the spread of the virus.

Really no need to get yourself in a kerfuffle.

No kerfuffle here chief. See above.

 

[Essexyellows]

Back to reality if you can tolerate it, and it is from the "coal face", not somebody with an axe to grind on twatter.
Upto midnight April 5th, an acute hospital trust with three main sites in Leicester.

Confirmed inpatients: 156

Discharged: 116.

Deceased: 51.

Ventilated bed capacity: Good.

There is a system "lag" of reporting cases and deaths across the entire NHS for many & complex reasons. However we are expecting a peak in symptomatic patients across Easter weekend, those that arrive then will be with us for between 7 - 15 days on average, some will need ITU, many will not.
There are several stages of ventilation from nasal tubes running oxygen, through CPAP and onto the ITU environment where there is non-invasive ventilation (requires sedation) and invasive ventilation (tracheostomy).
In ITU it is about keeping the body & organs functioning to fight the virus, then there is active physiotherapy to ensure muscles, lungs etc do not deteriorate, you can also throw renal complications into the mix.
Basically if you are reasonably fit and robust you stand a good chance of getting back to normal. If you are elderly with co-morbidities then the numbers go the other way quickly.


Stay well, stay safe, stay the f**k at home!

 

[Manorlounger]

I may have mixed them up but I didn't say I knew anything about any of the counties. I've posted someone else's tweet, invited observations about the tweet and you've just come back with aggression.

No aggression, impatience? - maybe.
The whole discussion around statistics from different parts of the world is just not very helpful. Every country has it's differences, cultural and political. Germany has, for example, a very high level of pharmaceutical testing and development and can therefore comfortably produce more testing kits. Norway has very few conurbations to match the rest of Europe/Scandinavia hence the lower infection rate. Italy and Spain traditionally retain family groupings and have more elderly folk living in close proximity leading to higher infection and mortality rates.
The UK is what it is. The medical experts have advised a course of action, they are constantly reviewing those actions and gauging reaction to those actions. Quite rightly, in my opinion, the government has decided to advise, set guidelines and then instruct how the populace should behave during this pandemic as opposed to ordering and imposing rule. We have idiots now, with rule they would become rebels and then general frustration could lead to more behaviour not in keeping with the intent. We British are, traditionally, very good at "doing the right thing" We are very good at forming a queue, being polite etc. (not all and not always!)
The danger now is that far too many keyboard warriors have little else to do except criticise and complain. Political point scoring and the slating of those doing their job. I am sure that once we have come through this every action and inaction, every decision will be scrutinised and lessons learnt.

 

[QR]

No kerfuffle here chief. See above.

No one is saying you don't but unfortunately there is a small minority out there who need these things written in ten feet tall red paint and then some of them still won't get it!
Current messenging is fine for the like of you and me but the minor ambiguities seem to dumbfound a few. For that reason the massage needs to be a watertight as possible.

You can just hear people say 'but it's only guidance'.

 

[Paul Cannell]

Order, demand, instruction, advice, request........ whatever you want to call it, it all amounts to the same.

The point is precisely that it does not.

 

[QR]

No aggression, impatience? - maybe.
The whole discussion around statistics from different parts of the world is just not very helpful. Every country has it's differences, cultural and political. Germany has, for example, a very high level of pharmaceutical testing and development and can therefore comfortably produce more testing kits. Norway has very few conurbations to match the rest of Europe/Scandinavia hence the lower infection rate. Italy and Spain traditionally retain family groupings and have more elderly folk living in close proximity leading to higher infection and mortality rates.
The UK is what it is. The medical experts have advised a course of action, they are constantly reviewing those actions and gauging reaction to those actions. Quite rightly, in my opinion, the government has decided to advise, set guidelines and then instruct how the populace should behave during this pandemic as opposed to ordering and imposing rule. We have idiots now, with rule they would become rebels and then general frustration could lead to more behaviour not in keeping with the intent. We British are, traditionally, very good at "doing the right thing" We are very good at forming a queue, being polite etc. (not all and not always!)
The danger now is that far too many keyboard warriors have little else to do except criticise and complain. Political point scoring and the slating of those doing their job. I am sure that once we have come through this every action and inaction, every decision will be scrutinised and lessons learnt.

Brilliant interjection. Why didn't you say that with your first reply?

 

[Paul Cannell]

Here are the dictionary definitions to help your confusion...

plural noun: guidelines
1. a general rule, principle, or piece of advice.

plural noun: instructions
1.
a direction or order.

Thanks, I know you mean well.

Best post on this forum, ever. Muesli all over the keyboard.

 

[Sarge]

No aggression, impatience? - maybe.
The whole discussion around statistics from different parts of the world is just not very helpful. Every country has it's differences, cultural and political. Germany has, for example, a very high level of pharmaceutical testing and development and can therefore comfortably produce more testing kits. Norway has very few conurbations to match the rest of Europe/Scandinavia hence the lower infection rate. Italy and Spain traditionally retain family groupings and have more elderly folk living in close proximity leading to higher infection and mortality rates.
The UK is what it is. The medical experts have advised a course of action, they are constantly reviewing those actions and gauging reaction to those actions. Quite rightly, in my opinion, the government has decided to advise, set guidelines and then instruct how the populace should behave during this pandemic as opposed to ordering and imposing rule. We have idiots now, with rule they would become rebels and then general frustration could lead to more behaviour not in keeping with the intent. We British are, traditionally, very good at "doing the right thing" We are very good at forming a queue, being polite etc. (not all and not always!)
The danger now is that far too many keyboard warriors have little else to do except criticise and complain. Political point scoring and the slating of those doing their job. I am sure that once we have come through this every action and inaction, every decision will be scrutinised and lessons learnt.

good post that @Manorlounger ..... I agree cultural differences are a factor in how CV19 does or doesnt spread, India (and other countries on the sub continent) too , like Spain and Italy, is another area that retains the family grouping, and has similar CV19 statistics

 

[Sarge]

Hurrah for good ol lord snooty, cashing in on other peoples misery. And bragging about it. Again ....

Jacob Rees-Mogg’s investment firm advertises “super normal returns” during pandemic

The London Economic - Somerset Capital Management has been criticised for exploiting the coronavirus crisis - Politics

www.thelondoneconomic.com

 

[Paul Cannell]

Now I hope this is clear to everyone:

"General Sir Nick Carter, chief of the defence staff, insisted there was a clear chain of command for the armed forces while the prime minister remains in intensive care.

He told Today:
It’s very clear I think. We work straight through to the prime minister but of course there’s the National Security Council (NSC) that’s wrapped around him and formed of many of the cabinet ministers and supported by the national security adviser.I think on that basis we’re pretty confident it’s business as usual as far as the operations are concerned.

Sir Nick said he believed Raab would chair the NSC and be supported by others."

No questions? Good. Get on with it.

 

[Sarge]

Now I hope this is clear to everyone:

"General Sir Nick Carter, chief of the defence staff, insisted there was a clear chain of command for the armed forces while the prime minister remains in intensive care.

He told Today:
It’s very clear I think. We work straight through to the prime minister but of course there’s the National Security Council (NSC) that’s wrapped around him and formed of many of the cabinet ministers and supported by the national security adviser.I think on that basis we’re pretty confident it’s business as usual as far as the operations are concerned.

Sir Nick said he believed Raab would chair the NSC and be supported by others."

No questions? Good. Get on with it.

there is a clear chain of command with, 93 year old, good queen Lizzy, gawd bless 'er, as commander in chief
of uk and commonwealth armed forces

 

[RyanioBirdio]

General Sir Nick Carter

 

[Essexyellows]

Hurrah for good ol lord snooty, cashing in on other peoples misery. And bragging about it. Again ....

Jacob Rees-Mogg’s investment firm advertises “super normal returns” during pandemic

The London Economic - Somerset Capital Management has been criticised for exploiting the coronavirus crisis - Politics

www.thelondoneconomic.com

Is it not "the economy" that will be needed to get things back to normal?
He`s not the only one buying into a weak market, its how stocks & shares work for everyone...... even you will, like it or not, have an interest in it via direct shares or investments.

 

[Shosho]

Hurrah for good ol lord snooty, cashing in on other peoples misery. And bragging about it. Again ....

Jacob Rees-Mogg’s investment firm advertises “super normal returns” during pandemic

The London Economic - Somerset Capital Management has been criticised for exploiting the coronavirus crisis - Politics

www.thelondoneconomic.com

No great surprise - I know many trying to project when this bottoms out for them to pile in.

Just the same as brexit - many will be making serious £££ from this

 

[Gary Baldi]

Is it not "the economy" that will be needed to get things back to normal?
He`s not the only one buying into a weak market, its how stocks & shares work for everyone...... even you will, like it or not, have an interest in it via direct shares or investments.

I saw a comment weeks ago, surmised as, the rich are going to get richer as economies shut down and businesses struggle for cash. Those with the liquidity and desire for risk, will be the ones that make the most, even with the Govts various schemes.

Someone like Richard Branson and his airlines though, don't have the liquidity to survive one.

 

[MC Yellow]

The point is precisely that it does not.

I would guess that the majority of people would follow advice in the same way that they follow an order.

So if someone wants to ignore advice, the chances are they will ignore an order.

 

[Paul Cannell]

I would guess that the majority of people would follow advice in the same way that they follow an order.

So if someone wants to ignore advice, the chances are they will ignore an order.

I don't think the logical outcome of your guess can really be interpreted as a universal rule; otherwise I guess drink-driving limits would just be advice and not be supported by prosecution, fines and gaol sentences.