National News PC Andrew Harper

[Pete Burrett]

Interesting. Use of the word 'frothy' (or associated terminology) to describe people with certain views seems to be the new vogue. Has it finally replaced 'snowflake'? That was a particular favourite of mine.

PS Personal opinion: the 'travelling community' (and exactly who that includes seems vague) often seem to perceive themselves as hard done by outsiders, always the butt of unwarranted criticism and victims of modern apartheid. You'd have to be very, very stupid to think that every member of that community displayed loutish behaviour, but a proportion of them clearly do. In Lincolnshire there's a sizeable such community. One family were recently imprisoned for abducting vulnerable people and using them as slave labour. Vacated traveller sites always seem to look a mess, and local news reports abound of citizens being ripped off by tarmacking / roofing / landscaping gangs from that community. My conclusion is that there is certainly an underclass of scummy travellers who, unfortunately, to many eyes represent the wider travelling community. The response of the average citizen is to tar them all with the same brush, which may be inaccurate but is entirely understandable.

 

[unification]

Interesting. Use of the word 'frothy' (or associated terminology) to describe people with certain views seems to be the new vogue. Has it finally replaced 'snowflake'? That was a particular favourite of mine.

PS Personal opinion: the 'travelling community' (and exactly who that includes seems vague) often seem to perceive themselves as hard done by outsiders, always the butt of unwarranted criticism and victims of modern apartheid. You'd have to be very, very stupid to think that every member of that community displayed loutish behaviour, but a proportion of them clearly do. In Lincolnshire there's a sizeable such community. One family were recently imprisoned for abducting vulnerable people and using them as slave labour. Vacated traveller sites always seem to look a mess, and local news reports abound of citizens being ripped off by tarmacking / roofing / landscaping gangs from that community. My conclusion is that there is certainly an underclass of scummy travellers who, unfortunately, to many eyes represent the wider travelling community. The response of the average citizen is to tar them all with the same brush, which may be inaccurate but is entirely understandable.

A bit on the nose with with the choice of idoim there, Pete!

 

[Pete Burrett]

A bit on the nose with with the choice of idoim there, Pete!

Well, the black ones are the worst.

 

[Essexyellows]

Caravan Utilising Nomadic Traveller`s can create a very appropriate acronym.
The underclass you describe unfortunately seem`s to be the majority of said community rather than a few bad apples.

I`m sure my Damascus moment to change my opinion is only just down the road .............. but I won`t hold my breath.

D`ya like dags?

 

[Robie]

Please can we keep this thread decent and remember the young courageous man who lost his life so tragically?

 

[IsleofWightYellow]

Caravan Utilising Nomadic Traveller`s can create a very appropriate acronym.
The underclass you describe unfortunately seem`s to be the majority of said community rather than a few bad apples.

I`m sure my Damascus moment to change my opinion is only just down the road .............. but I won`t hold my breath.

D`ya like dags?

The thing is, you have no empirical or statistically accurate way of saying that the majority of the traveller community is bad. I’m sure there are plenty of people in the world who have said exactly same about black people before.

 

[holdsteady]

I sometimes have to clean up after them after they have been evicted from the park/car park/wherever they have broken into. I specialise in the removal of hazardous waste in my job, from asbestos removal to cleaning out tanks which have traces of cyanide in them, they have left the places they briefly illegally inhabit in such a bad state that they have to call us in to make them safe for people to take their children and walk their dogs. I can easily see why people take against them even before adding in the cases of forcing vulnerable people into slavery and thieving, it’s lucky I have a strong stomach as they are as bad as the junkies squats they I also have had the misfortune to visit.

 

[werthersoriginal]

Yep cultural rights to steal, rob and avoid contributing to society in any way they can. What did one of them say at trial "I`m a thief, my dads a thief, my grandad`s a thief"...... don`t see many good ones with the notable exception of Tyson Fury.

That is racist. How many travellers have you met? You're better than that.

 

[Essexyellows]

That is racist. How many travellers have you met? You're better than that.

Covered that already.
No it is not.
Plenty.
I`m right.

 

[werthersoriginal]

Covered that already.
No it is not.
Plenty.
I`m right.

They are certainly unpopular, and I appreciate that the unpopularity is related to the behaviour of a sizeable number of them rather than just because of their unfamiliar skin colour or language. In what way is Tyson Fury 'good'? Is it because he has some money?

 

[Grumpy Git]

If Travellers were law abiding, they wouldn’t trespass.
If Travellers left places as they found them, people wouldn’t detest them.
if Travellers, Gypsy and Roma’s were innocent they wouldn’t make up 5% of the prison population even though they repre on 0.1% of the UK population.

 

[Essexyellows]

They are certainly unpopular, and I appreciate that the unpopularity is related to the behaviour of a sizeable number of them rather than just because of their unfamiliar skin colour or language. In what way is Tyson Fury 'good'? Is it because he has some money?

Tyson Fury speaks honestly and openly about his trials and tribulations, he also sets a good example for people of a similar background.

 

[Pete Burrett]

If Travellers were law abiding, they wouldn’t trespass.
If Travellers left places as they found them, people wouldn’t detest them.
if Travellers, Gypsy and Roma’s were innocent they wouldn’t make up 5% of the prison population even though they repre on 0.1% of the UK population.

Your first two comments are irrelevant. There are plenty of non-travellers who trespass, litter and participate in other antisocial behaviour so to refer to this particular group has no specific discussion value.

As to your third point (and let's assume your statistics are correct); some travellers are clearly not 'innocent'. Some of them do bad things and some of those get punished for it.

The really interesting perspective would be what percentage of travellers act antisocially versus what percentage of the general population act antisocially. If you could provide those figures your points might have more validity.

 

[bazzer9461]

Sometimes even I get "frothy" this has really boiled my urine.
All three were in the car committing crime that lead to PC Harper`s death.
All three are culpable.
The judge could have applied a life sentence.
They got off light.......but not light enough it seems.

Two of PC Andrew Harper's killers to appeal against convictions

The officer's mother calls the appeals by Albert Bowers and Jessie Cole "a kick in the stomach".

www.bbc.co.uk

Apparently two of these cnuts are appealing their sentence

 

[bazzer9461]

The thing is, you have no empirical or statistically accurate way of saying that the majority of the traveller community is bad. I’m sure there are plenty of people in the world who have said exactly same about black people before.

Thought this was about PC Harper? And you’ve dragged the black thing into it, what about when a white person is verbally abused by someone of the BAME community is that allowed or not.

 

[Pete Burrett]

Apparently two of these cnuts are appealing their sentence

People are rightly angry at the crime committed and the lack of remorse shown. But I think the discussion needs to be wider than that Baz. Some of the views expressed on this thread denote the entire traveller community as antisocial vermin. Perhaps there is a higher propensity to be criminal within the traveller community. Some of the actions of travellers I've seen myself are very, very poor. I've yet to see the relative statistics though.

 

[Essexyellows]

People are rightly angry at the crime committed and the lack of remorse shown. But I think the discussion needs to be wider than that Baz. Some of the views expressed on this thread denote the entire traveller community as antisocial vermin. Perhaps there is a higher propensity to be criminal within the traveller community. Some of the actions of travellers I've seen myself are very, very poor. I've yet to see the relative statistics though.

Why do you need "statistics" to back up what you have seen yourself?
The pre-planned criminal activity and actions of three thieves led to the horrific death of a young man who was everything they were not.
They all deserved a far longer sentence, and their "teflon" behaviour summarises the "above the law" attitude of the majority of their ilk.

 

[bazzer9461]

People are rightly angry at the crime committed and the lack of remorse shown. But I think the discussion needs to be wider than that Baz. Some of the views expressed on this thread denote the entire traveller community as antisocial vermin. Perhaps there is a higher propensity to be criminal within the traveller community. Some of the actions of travellers I've seen myself are very, very poor. I've yet to see the relative statistics though.

But to be fair Pete they haven’t done themselves any favours and the general perception of the non travelling community see only bad in these peopleas the travelling community in all camps up and down the country are regularly breaking the law.

 

[Pete Burrett]

Why do you need "statistics" to back up what you have seen yourself?

Because, as a sensible, educated person I don't assume that what I've seen is typical or the whole story. As travellers don't wear badges who knows how many I have seen helping old ladies across roads, or volunteering in charity shops. You will scoff at that because it counters your deeply held bias.

There are lots of examples given of antisocial travellers, very few of the travellers who have integrated into society.

 

[Pete Burrett]

But to be fair Pete they haven’t done themselves any favours and the general perception of the non travelling community see only bad in these peopleas the travelling community in all camps up and down the country are regularly breaking the law.

All true Baz. But, as I said to Essex above, maybe we don't see the whole picture, but only the bad?