National News PC Andrew Harper

All true Baz. But, as I said to Essex above, maybe we don't see the whole picture, but only the bad?
That’s true we only see bad but I hope you know the reason why we do only see bad in the travelling community. But honestly Pete can you see a traveller helping old ladies cross the road or helping out in charity shops, well maybe helping themselves to the clothes.
My wife and I went to the Next store in Cowley a couple of tears back and three children probably no older than 10 running out of the shop with the alarms going off and jumping into a waiting car, they were travellers the waiting car was being driven by a woman I assume their mother.
 
People are rightly angry at the crime committed and the lack of remorse shown. But I think the discussion needs to be wider than that Baz. Some of the views expressed on this thread denote the entire traveller community as antisocial vermin. Perhaps there is a higher propensity to be criminal within the traveller community. Some of the actions of travellers I've seen myself are very, very poor. I've yet to see the relative statistics though.
Earlier this year Channel 4 Dispatches made a clumsy attempt at trying to find a link between travellers sites and crime levels and although there was a correlation between the two, they couldn’t prove causation. The only ‘recent‘ work about travellers and crime that I know of was a Commons committee report from 2019, I forget the title, and even that conceded that no one actually knows how many travellers there are in the UK, making it impossible to accurately provide stats to draw any conclusions.
If there are stats available about ‘traveller crime’ I’d be genuinely interested to see them.
Anyone who’s encountered travellers, whether personally as a victim of crime for example, professionally, as some have here, or through what they read in the media, is likely to have a negative opinion but that’s my opinion, based on professional experience around housing, health, education and law enforcement.
 
That’s true we only see bad but I hope you know the reason why we do only see bad in the travelling community. But honestly Pete can you see a traveller helping old ladies cross the road or helping out in charity shops, well maybe helping themselves to the clothes.
My wife and I went to the Next store in Cowley a couple of tears back and three children probably no older than 10 running out of the shop with the alarms going off and jumping into a waiting car, they were travellers the waiting car was being driven by a woman I assume their mother.
Well your kind of proving my point Baz! You've decided that travellers couldn't possibly do anything positive, based on examples of wrongdoing that you have seen. Hardly proof of anything. Read @Eaststanding's excellent post above. Proof of correlation between travellers and a likelihood of them committing crime doesn't appear to exist. What does exist is in-built negativity based on nothing substantial.
 
Well your kind of proving my point Baz! You've decided that travellers couldn't possibly do anything positive, based on examples of wrongdoing that you have seen. Hardly proof of anything. Read @Eaststanding's excellent post above. Proof of correlation between travellers and a likelihood of them committing crime doesn't appear to exist. What does exist is in-built negativity based on nothing substantial.
I did read @Eaststanding’s post the point I am trying to make is they have never covered them selves in glory. I think it’s 3 murders now at the red ridge hollow or involving residents from Redbridge hollow and slavery and the countless raids that have taken place at Redbridge hollow, that certainly doesn’t cover themselves in any glory. So in that sense it is showing correlation between the travelling community and crime.
 
So the “cop killers must die in prison” and “string em up” are out again.

Like the widow demanding “Harper’s law”.

Our UK law is already set up for whole of life to be decided by the attorney general and within limits. So a terrorist under 21 can’t get it.


So far as I’ve read the youths set out to rob, and completely unforeseen a tow rope to take the quad bike somehow lasso the policeman.

And that is what a jury decided.
 
I did read @Eaststanding’s post the point I am trying to make is they have never covered them selves in glory. I think it’s 3 murders now at the red ridge hollow or involving residents from Redbridge hollow and slavery and the countless raids that have taken place at Redbridge hollow, that certainly doesn’t cover themselves in any glory. So in that sense it is showing correlation between the travelling community and crime.
No Baz! It simply shows that some travellers have committed crimes. It doesn't show that all travellers are likely to be criminals. Don't know how else to explain it.
 
Because, as a sensible, educated person I don't assume that what I've seen is typical or the whole story. As travellers don't wear badges who knows how many I have seen helping old ladies across roads, or volunteering in charity shops. You will scoff at that because it counters your deeply held bias.

There are lots of examples given of antisocial travellers, very few of the travellers who have integrated into society.

Travellers who have " integrated into Gorja society" are ostracised by the very community they are part of and no longer seen as travellers.
 
So the “cop killers must die in prison” and “string em up” are out again.

Like the widow demanding “Harper’s law”.

Our UK law is already set up for whole of life to be decided by the attorney general and within limits. So a terrorist under 21 can’t get it.


So far as I’ve read the youths set out to rob, and completely unforeseen a tow rope to take the quad bike somehow lasso the policeman.

And that is what a jury decided.
But life is the maximum for manslaughter and that’s what they should have got. Most people in this country will hop the Attorney general appeals their sentence and life is then awarded as their sentence.
 
No Baz! It simply shows that some travellers have committed crimes. It doesn't show that all travellers are likely to be criminals. Don't know how else to explain it.
How many from Redbridge hollow are innocent of any crime?
 
So the “cop killers must die in prison” and “string em up” are out again.

Like the widow demanding “Harper’s law”.

Our UK law is already set up for whole of life to be decided by the attorney general and within limits. So a terrorist under 21 can’t get it.


So far as I’ve read the youths set out to rob, and completely unforeseen a tow rope to take the quad bike somehow lasso the policeman.

And that is what a jury decided.

From the case reports.................

"A reconstruction suggested that rather than stopping, Long swerved in the road to try to throw him (PC Harper) off.

And the prosecution told the court that ringleader Long told his two fellow killers to “shut up” and “turn the music up” as he dragged PC Harper to his death."

And that "rock solid jury"..................

"One female panel member was discharged last week after smiling at the three and mouthing “goodbye boys” as she left court. "

End of the day their criminality and their choices led to the death of a police officer for which they should serve a substantial term in prison.
The maximum sentence for manslaughter is life.
I hope their appeal fails and their sentence is doubled.
 
But life is the maximum for manslaughter and that’s what they should have got. Most people in this country will hop the Attorney general appeals their sentence and life is then awarded as their sentence.

“Life” for manslaughter doesn’t mean “life” and our society offers chances for lifers to reform.
 
How many from Redbridge hollow are innocent of any crime?
I've no idea, and neither have you.

You need to try to think slightly more broadly Baz. I remember the good old pre-referendum threads when your contribution to the 'debate' was to repeat 'OUT OUT OUT'. The world is grey Baz. ;)
 
“Life” for manslaughter doesn’t mean “life” and our society offers chances for lifers to reform.
Life
Is a minimum of 15years but a judge could recommend a minimum amount to be served for life
Sentences which could be 20, 25 or even 30
Years.
 
So to give a middle class example. You come back from a holiday in France or Netherlands. And don’t self isolate. And pass on coronavirus to someone outside of your household. And they die. Life sentence for you. Without parole.
 
I've no idea, and neither have you.

You need to try to think slightly more broadly Baz. I remember the good old pre-referendum threads when your contribution to the 'debate' was to repeat 'OUT OUT OUT'. The world is grey Baz. ;)
3 murders committed By member of the Redbridge community, slavery And there have been an abundance of raids carried out there, so yes would say there is a lot of criminal activity regarding the Redbridge community.
 
So to give a middle class example. You come back from a holiday in France or Netherlands. And don’t self isolate. And pass on coronavirus to someone outside of your household. And they die. Life sentence for you. Without parole.
Now were being silly.
 
So to give a middle class example. You come back from a holiday in France or Netherlands. And don’t self isolate. And pass on coronavirus to someone outside of your household. And they die. Life sentence for you. Without parole.

Then there would have to be proof that you’ve actually caused the death of that unfortunate person when it could have been someone else
That passed the virus. Also in no way is this scenario of yours is in any way comparable with This case that is under discussion.
 
3 murders committed By member of the Redbridge community, slavery And there have been an abundance of raids carried out there, so yes would say there is a lot of criminal activity regarding the Redbridge community.
Perhaps you could give similar examples from traveller communities around the country? The ones you've been generalising about. Perhaps you could show actual evidence to support your views?
 
Do you know what. If my boss goes on holiday with extended family and friends to Greece or France or Ireland and then comes back and I get Covid and die, I will be posthumous pissed off.
But also a colleague of yours had come into contact with someone who has COVID-19 and he passed it to you so who do you blame your boss your colleague or the person(s) who have it them. Do you blame the tow rope that pc Harper got caught up in or the scum that were committing a crime and in their escape PC Harper in doing his duty trying to apprehend got caught up in their escape and ultimately died in doing so, yes that’s manslaughter but manslaughter carries a life sentence and the judge should have shown B*****s and give all three a life sentence with a minimum term of say 25 years, that may have gone some way of stopping all these debates that are going on all over social media.
 
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