Conference National league playoff today

[mooro]

I think many of us have a subconscious desire for the football league to be like it was when we were kids, and obviously Notts County were always part of it - in fact I can remember them in the top division. Don Masson, jumpers for goalposts, etc.

I think that is very true for a lot of people, and also certain other clubs to be at a certain level - whether ones own club or others - but not necessarily at the expense of recognising the overriding authority of actual performance, promotion and relegation.

In fact it is those variations from the perceived 'norm' that provides the underlying value of the pyramid.

So I like to see minnows thrive and the big boys occasionally suffer the humiliation of relegation, but also are pleased when they sort themselves out and return to their former heights or those who have added little or nothing make way for the next candidate.

So, I will not mourn the loss of Stevenage, nor would I have done Macclesfield and I'm glad to see barrow return and, by nature of either being the oldest or the newest league club, would have welcomed either finalist too.

 

[RyanioBirdio]

Slippery slope when smaller attendances leads to people questioning whether a club deserves promotion.

 

[iambungle]

fair play to Harrogate Town. my wife's family are originally from Harrogate so have followed their rise through the leagues with interest.

nice little fact for those who are that way inclined, they've been a league club for 1 day but already have the longest serving manager in the efl by some distance - simon weaver was appointed player-manager in 2009, so he's knocked that w****r Ainsworth off top spot

 

[Concretebob]

fair play to Harrogate Town. my wife's family are originally from Harrogate so have followed their rise through the leagues with interest.

nice little fact for those who are that way inclined, they've been a league club for 1 day but already have the longest serving manager in the efl by some distance - simon weaver was appointed player-manager in 2009, so he's knocked that w****r Ainsworth off top spot

Well that's cheered me up! Arseworth being a championship manager is a crime against football

 

[m]

Well that's cheered me up! Arseworth being a championship manager is a crime against football

I think it would be fascinating to see what Ainsworth could do with some money.

Ainsworth the manager is nothing like Ainsworth the player was.

 

[Wallop]

I think it would be fascinating to see what Ainsworth could do with some money.

Ainsworth the manager is nothing like Ainsworth the player was.

I agree - all this vitriol towards him and Wycombe is childish, smacks of sourgrapes and just fuels their view of us as arrogant neighbours.

 

[RyanioBirdio]

I agree - all this vitriol towards him and Wycombe is childish, smacks of sourgrapes and just fuels their view of us as arrogant neighbours.

Always been surprised that anybody who had to endure Graham Westley’s Stevenage back in the day could ever be offended by Ainsworth and Wycombe. Positively tame by comparison.

 

[m]

Always been surprised that anybody who had to endure Graham Westley’s Stevenage back in the day could ever be offended by Ainsworth and Wycombe. Positively tame by comparison.

I think the two mentioned, and Steve Evans, absolutely revel in their pantomime villain status.

Although perhaps Westley is more David Brent, I don't know.

 

[RyanioBirdio]

I think the two mentioned, and Steve Evans, absolutely revel in their pantomime villain status.

Although perhaps Westley is more David Brent, I don't know.

“A sergeant major spends his time training his men to be killers. He doesn’t polish his own boots. He probably does polish his own boots, but, you know, that doesn’t mean I have to print my own team sheets.”

 

[iambungle]

I agree - all this vitriol towards him and Wycombe is childish, smacks of sourgrapes and just fuels their view of us as arrogant neighbours.

personally, I formed the opinion that he is a w****r waaaaaaaay before 13/7/20.

 

[Sarge]

personally, I formed the opinion that he is a w****r waaaaaaaay before 13/7/20.

me too

 

[tonyw]

Eh? Since when was promotion 'deserved' by the number of supporters a club has? On that basis, Portsmouth, Sunderland and Ipswich would not be in L1! And we would never be in the Championship. This is the same nonsense as clubs whinging they are 'too big' to be where they are in the pyramid.

You'd hope that now Harrogate are in the league they will pick up some more support, hopefully that support will then stick with them.

So I'll accept that I was wrong to use the term 'deserve' - in that obviously where every club ends up in the pyramid is wholly and solely based on how they perform on the pitch (with the exception of the few cases where incompetence off the pitch kills clubs e.g. Bury).

But look - when it comes down to it, there's some fun to be had on occasion in going and watching a game in a garden shed somewhere where we have almost as many away fans as there are home fans. But really, would you rather do that or watch a game at Meadow Lane - a big, old, traditional ground with 7-8,000 supporters when Notts County are going well?

Yes, it was hilarious when Luton, Leyton Orient and Bristol Rovers all had spells in the Conference.
But at the end of the day, don't away days against those guys get the blood flowing a little more than trips to Fleetwood or Macclesfield?

And the number of small clubs in the football league with small stadia that can't pull a significant crowd is growing.
By my count, there are twelve clubs now that are 'new' to the football league since they instituted automatic promotion from the conference - and by far, by far the best supported is Wycombe Wanderers. Which is a bit of an indictment really of those clubs' ability to pick up new supporters and grow.


And look, if you're a fan of a fairly big Championship club - I would hope that no-one would be saying that Wycombe (or us, if Henry had just shot) shouldn't be allowed to be promoted into the league. But if some of their fans were a bit disappointed, thinking that they would rather have had a day out at the Stadium of Light or Portman Road as they prefer bigger crowds in bigger stadia.....I certainly wouldn't begrudge them that. Because that's all we're talking about here - not that anyone shouldn't be allowed to get promoted, just that I find it a bit disappointing that Harrogate were promoted at Notts County's expense.

(*n.b. this discussion is of course completely moot if there are no fans next season)

 

[ZeroTheHero]

I guess we'll never see eye to eye on this. For me, one of the beauties of the pyramid system is (or more likely *was*, before it got all distorted) that if you supported the Dog and Duck United, if they were good enough then they would be promoted. And they would *keep* being promoted through the leagues until they got to one where they were no longer better than the others. And (as someone whose grandfather played for Headington) - that is *exactly* what we have done, becoming the 'big' team in our city. Were Accrington a more traditional league team when we took their place? Yup. Would many of the fans of the established teams fancied coming to town to see the slightly ramshackle glories of the Manor? I doubt it. If we did it and our club is where it is today, I think it would be churlish to resent other teams doing it.

I do understand that a game away at Notts County might be more attractive to some than a game away at Harrogate (although as a day trip, the latter is a much nicer destination!) - but there are more than enough clubs in the league structure to allow for both the 'fallen giants' at one extreme, the 'plucky upstarts' at the other and everyone in the middle. Personally I'd be prepared to sacrifice a day out at (say) the impressive but completely soulless MK Dons stadium for a game away at somewhere smaller and more quirky. I'd rather draw Merstham away in the cup than Crewe.

 

[werthersoriginal]

Where i have a problem is decent but faded old clubs being replaced by small, fanless new teams with wealthy owners who have almost 'bought' the league place. Not that i'm saying Harrogate are that - but Salford and Fleetwood could be. I'd be so happy if Fleetwood could just eff off back to the parks league. and let a proper team such as York or Stockport back in.

 

[Sarge]

Where i have a problem is decent but faded old clubs being replaced by small, fanless new teams with wealthy owners who have almost 'bought' the league place. Not that i'm saying Harrogate are that - but Salford and Fleetwood could be. I'd be so happy if Fleetwood could just eff off back to the parks league. and let a proper team such as York or Stockport back in.

Stockport County, despite languishing in non league for a few years now, draw crowds of 4K regularly

 

[Concretebob]

Always been surprised that anybody who had to endure Graham Westley’s Stevenage back in the day could ever be offended by Ainsworth and Wycombe. Positively tame by comparison.

Oh god, that drinks break nonsense was ridiculous. Properly did what it was designed for though - winding up the opposition

 

[bashamwonderland]

Where i have a problem is decent but faded old clubs being replaced by small, fanless new teams with wealthy owners who have almost 'bought' the league place. Not that i'm saying Harrogate are that - but Salford and Fleetwood could be. I'd be so happy if Fleetwood could just eff off back to the parks league. and let a proper team such as York or Stockport back in.

Yeah agreed, it isn't a case of actually advocating for small teams to be prevented from entering the league but a preference for those teams to be relegated in favour of proper clubs.

After all professional football is really supposed to be about fans. Otherwise what's the point.

 

[Peterdev]

Drinks break outrageous.
It Will be happening in snooker and cricket next

 

[tonyw]

I do understand that a game away at Notts County might be more attractive to some than a game away at Harrogate (although as a day trip, the latter is a much nicer destination!) - but there are more than enough clubs in the league structure to allow for both the 'fallen giants' at one extreme, the 'plucky upstarts' at the other and everyone in the middle. Personally I'd be prepared to sacrifice a day out at (say) the impressive but completely soulless MK Dons stadium for a game away at somewhere smaller and more quirky. I'd rather draw Merstham away in the cup than Crewe.

But that's the appeal of the early rounds of the Cup for a team like us! The chance to go to smaller, quirky grounds with few fans that we wouldn't normally get a chance to visit.
That appeal gets diminished somewhat if we're going to those sorts of grounds every week in the league - and if, even forbid, we ever did get relegated back to League Two, that's what we'd be doing half the time now.......

What has happened in the last couple of decades with the football league pyramid is that a bunch of traditional football league clubs have been horribly run to the extent that they've dropped away, whilst a bunch of smaller traditionally non-league clubs have either been very well run (e.g. Burton) or had money thrown at them (e.g. Fleetwood) and replaced them.

To the extent that, actually, there's no longer a massive difference between League Two and the Conference in terms of the type and size of clubs you're going to be facing every week. Financially, I'm sure it's much less of a gap than between the Championship and League One.

So be it, and that's the result of fair competition. But I'm not going to celebrate it when things move further in that direction.

 

[NottsYellow]

Eh? Since when was promotion 'deserved' by the number of supporters a club has? On that basis, Portsmouth, Sunderland and Ipswich would not be in L1! And we would never be in the Championship. This is the same nonsense as clubs whinging they are 'too big' to be where they are in the pyramid.

You'd hope that now Harrogate are in the league they will pick up some more support, hopefully that support will then stick with them.

I wonder how many York City fans live in Harrogate.