National News Extinction "Rebellion"

To be fair @Foley the factory I was at in Guangzhou, China last week was one of the best I’ve seen (in comparison to ones here in the UK too).

Ive not been to Guangzhou for a few years but they’ve massively bought into the tech revolution. I’d say perhaps 75-80% of the scooters and bikes were electric and I’d say at least half of the cars were too.

Don’t get me wrong there’s plenty wrong with the place in certain cities but I was pleasantly surprised. It was by far cleaner and easier to breathe than Abingdon or Oxford.

Based on my travels I’d be focussing energy on India. The place is as shambles when it comes to the environment.Wall to wall ricks, rubbish being burnt in the street, gas stoves etc.Definitely agree with you on that one!
 
SteMerritt said:
Your point being?
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My point is that if world is going to avoid catastrophe it doesnt matter whether you and I save plastic bags/ drive electric cars
It needs a concerted world effort. The Brazilian government seem happy to burn down more of the rainforest . I suspect strongly that China and the US burn enough fossil fuels to make the UK irrelevant.
 
Manorlounger said:
If it was by Indians then it has real significance. They don't seem to be overly motivated by anything other than domestic issues.
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there’s been fairly ‘small’ groups of Indians protesting as part of an Extinction Rebellion for a while.

There’s also beaches like Juhu and Versova that have had massive clean up operations and it’s incredible to see. I absolutely love the country and hope things improve but it’ll be a very slow and steady mission!

It may be possible to influence the middle classes out there but it’ll be another story to convince someone that burning rubbish and plastic to keep their family warm at night is wrong.

Ive been to a couple of places down in Coimbatore that have started using solar on the factory roof but it’s still (well behind) China in my opinion.

States should most definitely know better! Watching them drive around in 3 litre plus dodge rams with six wheels and thinking nothing of it always amazes me.
 
Foley said:
My point is that if world is going to avoid catastrophe it doesnt matter whether you and I save plastic bags/ drive electric cars
It needs a concerted world effort. The Brazilian government seem happy to burn down more of the rainforest . I suspect strongly that China and the US burn enough fossil fuels to make the UK irrelevant.
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So we all give up then? Really don't like that as an argument. Set an example, then apply pressure to others, if we don't do that then there's no hope for change.
 
SteMerritt said:
So we all give up then? Really don't like that as an argument. Set an example, then apply pressure to others, if we don't do that then there's no hope for change.
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No I am.not suggesting that we give up.
I am suggesting that we are realistic.
My question related to what us happening in.the Countries that make the most significant difference.
Let's be absolutely realistic. If China and the US dont change their view we are fu****.
So huge pressure needs to be put on them. More so than in Europe that at least accepts that it is an issue .
My question was a genuine one. What is happening is the Worls and the Countries that REALLY matter.
 
OK some perspective.
In June 19 the CO2 emissions in the World by Country was:
China. 27.2% (yes more than a quarter)
US. 14.6%
India. 6.8%

The UK are not even in the 'Top' 15 Countries

So China and the US need to change their views and actions really quickly or else.....
 
Foley said:
OK some perspective.
In June 19 the CO2 emissions in the World by Country was:
China. 27.2% (yes more than a quarter)
US. 14.6%
India. 6.8%

The UK are not even in the 'Top' 15 Countries

So China and the US need to change their views and actions really quickly or else.....
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What would be interesting (and something I’ve not done) would be to normalise it. Most companies that report emissions do per head/turnover etc.

I completely agree with you that the countries you’ve mentioned need to make massive improvements but with populations of over 1 billion in China and India compared to 65ish million then it’s not so easy to compare just on emissions.

I’m sure it’s been done and I’m sure I’ve read the stats I just can’t remember where/when!
 
Indeed. A 'per head' calculation makes much more sense when 'comparing'really, although of course it is the largest nations that can make the most difference.
 
Aren't US emissions going down? I'm sure I recall seeing something a few months back where they are on the downward curve.
 
Gary Baldi said:
But in that, there is a kind of arrogance that they think they know what the biggest issue is based on their feelings and perhaps do not understand that others may not see it that way or other priorities are bigger - a big recession for example. So we have an epic bourgeoisie strop that is getting more and random as it goes on.

I can't help but feel environmentalists have fallen into a Boy Who Called Wolf scenario and do not understand that if you keep saying Wolf and nothing bad happens, people will stop listening to you. My feeling is a big majority of people understand we need to look after this planet a lot better, but are fed up of the every 10 years the ice caps will be gone, oil run out, etc etc. We aren't stupid.
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Australia
 
thegrumpyporter said:
Where the Greens have very successfully campaigned against back burning and stopped it for eighteen months, which has resulted in the fire spreading over a greater distance and faster. Does not fit the media agenda so not being reported. Not saying there's not a warming problem but the arguments need to be balanced and reported properly or the cry wolf problem will occur.
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I think the record temperatures may also have been rather relevant. Rather than get caught up in spurious Daily Mail bunnyholes, or trying to blame a bunch of error prone but well meaning activists, might be better to recognize its happening and its serious.

For the record in the oil and gas industry climate change is not only acknowledged, but also considered a real threat to the future of the planet and there is campaigning for a carbon tax, massive investment in alternative energy, and plans to reduce carbon footprint
 
A problem XR have, like previous groups before them, is they more or less preach to the converted.
The demographic they really need to target are the vast majority that read right wing newspapers. Once they are on board, governments and those in opposition would have to have a serious rethink on how they tackle the problem or risk being dispatched at the polls.
 
Ricky Otto said:
Australia
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Please elaborate on your point. Aren't bush fires a symptom of the climate in Australia, rather than a sudden new thing that has happened in the past few years? In part, blaming the fires on climate change is some of the problem we have.

Articles such as these are regularly written, some as long ago as the 19th century and it's never happened:
1577886779251.png

Perhaps we collectively agree to do things as a global community in a calm and thoughtful manner to help each other in a practical way, rather than increasingly OTT shouting and finger wagging that has become in en vogue in the past few years. As we saw with the whole Brexit thing, you don't win people over by telling them are stupid, racist and xenophobic. Because then, people stop listening to you.

As for the right wing press, it was Daily Fail that were first on the plastic waste in Oceans bus wasn't it?
 
Gary Baldi said:
Aren't bush fires a symptom of the climate in Australia, rather than a sudden new thing that has happened in the past few years?
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Basically, no. Bushfires of course are part of the Australian environment. However, fires of the longevity, frequency and ferocity of the ones in recent years are a new thing. Megafires sweeping through relatively unwooded places are a new thing[•]. The fires affecting NSW and NE VIC at the moment are related to it being dryer and hotter than usual. Yet again Australia has had its hottest year and it’s hottest December. That is a result of climate change and a direct cause of more intense and dangerous fires.

* have a look at Cobargo, NSW on google maps satellite view. The fire came in from the north west. Normally when you hear of small towns being seriously damaged by fire, they are in the middle of forest (eg google marysville, VIC - the town that got decimated 8or so years ago).
 
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