National News Covidiots.....

MC Yellow

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Just a bit of a "local Leicester" update.
Most of the figures are (roughly) 2 weeks in arrears...... if (big if!) they decide to do anything locally it`s probably too late.
Local politico`s are suggesting the rest of the country moves forward on the 4th July..... we have to wait until 18th or so. Again it`s too late.

Totally impractical and completely un-enforcable unless you have checkpoints on every major road in and out folk will just go to Brum, Cov or Nottingham to shop/eat etc.
Not such a big if after all ... just been locked down.

I wouldn’t be surprised if we’re all joining them by the end of July. 🙁
 

Mike_H

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The problem is that the more people that do go out to places and do the right thing, such as go to the beach and social distance, the more that encourages other people to do the same thing; some of these other people will do the right thing, some won't and there will also be a negative effect due to there being more people in that location which will make social distancing harder to achieve.

Although the people doing the wrong thing must bear their share of responsibility, yes we should also blame the government for their woolly messages and their failure to sack Dominic Cummings. If you are a leader during a time of crisis, you need to give messages clearly by giving orders not choices and by following them to the letter yourself. If leaders don't follow their own instructions, they need to apologise and/or be dismissed so as to reinforce the message. A good leader is someone who surrounds himself with people who know more than he/she does. Unfortunately this Government believe they know better than anyone else and consequently they have got it wrong time after time.

To those of us who think the country should open up for economic reasons, yes I can understand some of that thinking, but how many are thinking this won't happen to me? Maybe what we need to ask ourselves is this: are we prepared to sacrifice the health or life of someone we love for the chance to go shopping or to the pub or on holiday?
 

horseman

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The vast majority of people that crammed the beaches did not do so on the strength of one bloke driving to Durham..People had already been having parties in the park, bbq's and private parties...We have created a society for years where you can sit on your jacksie, increase the size of your family and see your bank account topped up every 2 weeks/Month...A minority in a certain age bracket that think and will do whatever they want because i'm alright jack and others who cannot/will not return to work whilst they're getting 80% of pay but appear on the beaches at sunrise and no doubt will be rushing to the pubs in a few days.
 

Essexyellows

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Not such a big if after all ... just been locked down.

I wouldn’t be surprised if we’re all joining them by the end of July. 🙁
Lock down in name only.

They have closed the non-essential shops and deferred the relaxation due on the 4th July.
So we can`t go to shops in town but can drive to Fosse Park, same distance from our house as the City.
Leicester City are due to play Palace at home............. how will Palace get in or out?
I can get a train from Leicester to anywhere.
I can still drive to Cov,Brum or Nottingham.

I won`t be doing any of the above but there will be plenty that will. :(:(
 

Pete Burrett

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To those of us who think the country should open up for economic reasons, yes I can understand some of that thinking, but how many are thinking this won't happen to me? Maybe what we need to ask ourselves is this: are we prepared to sacrifice the health or life of someone we love for the chance to go shopping or to the pub or on holiday?
A very good question Mike. I'll be judged by some as 'negative' or a 'doomsayer' but the fact remains that - as illustrated in Bournemouth, Brixton and elsewhere - a proportion of the British public can't be trusted to follow guidelines or use their common sense to think through the ramifications of their actions.

Surely not every single one of the 500,000 on Dorset's beaches can be ignorant fools? Yet each and every one of them was acting as such. Presumably they can't all believe themselves impervious to Covid-19 and believe they will not pass the virus on to others?

We don't know for sure the reason why Covid-19 is spiking in Leicester, although cultural norms, multi-generational housing and levels of poverty are mentioned, but we can expect spikes in many other areas, mainly through ignorance and stupidity.
 

Yellow River

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From the reports and footage I’ve seen at protests, beaches, raves etc, the big majority of the people deliberately avoiding social distancing are under 30.

Their rationale if your under 30 appears to be ‘I’m not affected by Covid even if I catch it, so what’s the problem?’

It’s an incredible ‘I’m all right Jack’ attitude and unbelievably selfish.
 

MC Yellow

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Lock down in name only.

They have closed the non-essential shops and deferred the relaxation due on the 4th July.
So we can`t go to shops in town but can drive to Fosse Park, same distance from our house as the City.
Leicester City are due to play Palace at home............. how will Palace get in or out?
I can get a train from Leicester to anywhere.
I can still drive to Cov,Brum or Nottingham.

I won`t be doing any of the above but there will be plenty that will. :(:(
Hmmm...so pretty pointless then 🤔
 

MarkG

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A very good question Mike. I'll be judged by some as 'negative' or a 'doomsayer' but the fact remains that - as illustrated in Bournemouth, Brixton and elsewhere - a proportion of the British public can't be trusted to follow guidelines or use their common sense to think through the ramifications of their actions.

Surely not every single one of the 500,000 on Dorset's beaches can be ignorant fools? Yet each and every one of them was acting as such. Presumably they can't all believe themselves impervious to Covid-19 and believe they will not pass the virus on to others?

We don't know for sure the reason why Covid-19 is spiking in Leicester, although cultural norms, multi-generational housing and levels of poverty are mentioned, but we can expect spikes in many other areas, mainly through ignorance and stupidity.
I think there will be spikes and clusters but due to pubs and bars reopening or other indoor activities where you are breathing in other people's exhalations or touching work surfaces and other contact points, or more to the point if you are a spreader and are exhaling out. The pub guidelines to try and lower these risks by for instance no music to avoid situations where people need to shout to make themselves heard, encourage booking of tables to keep people distanced, using apps to order drinks.

A family of four for instance getting in a car and driving to a beach or a park and sitting in their group on a picnic blanket for the afternoon and then driving home again I think is lower risk. An unnecessary risk, but can be mitigated.
 

HampshireYellow

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It’s crazy to me that the likes of @Scotchegg seem so keen to blame the police but completely absolve the government of any responsibility whatsoever. If the Government have said it’s fine to go out, we need to get the economy moving etc then it’s very harsh imo to expect the police to start judging exactly when and where they should be managing things, given that a) they’d have a riot on their hands and b) when they tried that before, when we were specifically in lockdown, people kicked off massively about it.
 

Essexyellows

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The biggest problem is that the Government have relied on all carrot and no stick.
They have relied on people doing their bit for society as a whole.
They are now finding out that 90% of us are cool with that, but 10% are selfish, stupid twunks that think nothing applies to them.

Last weekend we had the local "horse fair". Several hundred folk camped out in a field using the A6 for trotting races.
Those folk have now dissipated to other places and the nearby city is in lock down.

Religious houses continuing to meet for prayers.

Protests in the City Centre.

Massive queues and little social distancing to get into TK Maxx/ Matalan/Sports Direct....... why?

Food shops with no enforcement of social distancing or "one person, one trolley".....why not go out with a family of 8?

Relying on people to abide by the "rules" only works if everyone does their bit.
 

Marked Ox

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A family of four for instance getting in a car and driving to a beach or a park and sitting in their group on a picnic blanket for the afternoon and then driving home again I think is lower risk. An unnecessary risk, but can be mitigated.
That works if it is a quiet beach, low visitor number beach, rather than Bournemouth when it is packed and includes those travelling in on packed trains etc.
 

Scotchegg

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It’s crazy to me that the likes of @Scotchegg seem so keen to blame the police but completely absolve the government of any responsibility whatsoever. If the Government have said it’s fine to go out, we need to get the economy moving etc then it’s very harsh imo to expect the police to start judging exactly when and where they should be managing things, given that a) they’d have a riot on their hands and b) when they tried that before, when we were specifically in lockdown, people kicked off massively about it.
Quite simply, public order (or disorder) is and always has been, the responsibility of the police.

Lawful activity (going to the beach) becomes unlawful when public order or safety is put at risk. Bournemouth and it's beaches are huge and can accommodate large numbers, so 100,000 beach goers would not have been an issue. However 500,000 as estimated last week creates a very significant risk (regardless of covid). Preplanned gatherings of that nature would have needed additional policing, medics, lifeguards, traffic measures etc. None of this was in place. So once the numbers started going above 100/200k, the police and local authorities should have intervened. Closing access routes, diverting traffic from motorways etc.

What do you honestly think the Government could have done differently? The only suggestion is that ALL beaches should have been closed, which doesn't reflect the current risk.
 

Marked Ox

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Quite simply, public order (or disorder) is and always has been, the responsibility of the police.

Lawful activity (going to the beach) becomes unlawful when public order or safety is put at risk. Bournemouth and it's beaches are huge and can accommodate large numbers, so 100,000 beach goers would not have been an issue. However 500,000 as estimated last week creates a very significant risk (regardless of covid). Preplanned gatherings of that nature would have needed additional policing, medics, lifeguards, traffic measures etc. None of this was in place. So once the numbers started going above 100/200k, the police and local authorities should have intervened. Closing access routes, diverting traffic from motorways etc.

What do you honestly think the Government could have done differently? The only suggestion is that ALL beaches should have been closed, which doesn't reflect the current risk.
You are assuming the Police and Local Authorities had the resources to intervene. The Govt could have helped provide extra resources or closed the beaches knowing the weather was predicted to be so good. After all they have imposed the old guidance on Leicester.
 

Essexyellows

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Exactly.... imposed guidance.

The necessary law, for the Police to use, hasn`t been passed as yet.

Horse ....... stable door............... bolt............... lets get things in the right order.

It seems "saying we will do something" is expected to be instantaneous............. then the practicality kicks in.

Friend runs a pub in Shepshed, just up the M1 and outside the "plague zone".

He has done everything to open on the 4th of July and will now have to check ID`s to make sure those from inside the zone don`t pop in for a pint! However many of his regular customers work and travel into the City..............

Its almost impossible to implement without the co-operation of people.
 

Scotchegg

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You are assuming the Police and Local Authorities had the resources to intervene. The Govt could have helped provide extra resources or closed the beaches knowing the weather was predicted to be so good. After all they have imposed the old guidance on Leicester.
But many beaches were perfectly fine. You can see footage from Brighton and numerous beaches in Devon and Cornwall that were quieter than you'd expect, with lots of social distancing and barely any rubbish left behind. So why should all of these people have been stopped from going to the beach?

Your example about Leicester is fine, but the very nature is that local risk leads to local restrictions. So it still comes down to those responsible for public safety in Bournemouth should have predicted, prepared and intervened quicker to prevent half a million people swamping their beaches.
 

Pompeyyellows

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My local social club have just released there rules regarding re-opening. No limited numbers in club, they will be showing live sport but no one is allowed to stand and no one is allowed to sing and chant. So the place is going to be full of Pompey fans and heaven forbid they score a last min winner, do you think that they will sit there and just politely applaud. I think not. Will i be watching it with them, not a chance not safe.
Mind if we beat them it could be fun lol
 

Marked Ox

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But many beaches were perfectly fine. You can see footage from Brighton and numerous beaches in Devon and Cornwall that were quieter than you'd expect, with lots of social distancing and barely any rubbish left behind. So why should all of these people have been stopped from going to the beach?

Your example about Leicester is fine, but the very nature is that local risk leads to local restrictions. So it still comes down to those responsible for public safety in Bournemouth should have predicted, prepared and intervened quicker to prevent half a million people swamping their beaches.
Yes but the weather forecast made it clear what was going to happen as it had already happened in earlier sunny/warm spells. And as we are still in a pandemic, now is better to err on the side of caution. Why aren't football crowds allowed back, why should those unlikely to get it be stopped from watching it live as that is the same argument?

And again, you assume the Local Authorities/Police had the resources, based on cuts under austerity I'd be surprised if they had the resources to deal with 500k, throughout the whole of Dorset, nevermind just Bournemouth. Especially as a number of Local Councils are already having discussions about declaring bankruptcy (from Public Finance, CIPFA trade magazine) so with the additional costs/reduced income due to Covid-19, they won't have any spare resources. The additional Govt help is at best projected to cover half the Councils losses from C19 alone.
 
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