International News Covid-19 .....

[Sheik djibouti]

Although the uk death rate in numbers is very high, in% terms it’s very small. The virus must be allowed to spread but at the same time protect the ones at risk until such time we reach herd immunity either by the numbers that have been infected or & a vaccine.

It's also (still) about protecting hospital and particularly critical care capacity.

We can't keep on pretending people aren't going to get it (or it will just disappear if you listen to Trump), but we should do all we can to keep the curve as flat as possible ... and keep doing that until a viable vaccine is available to the masses.

Herd immunity might be fine IF (and we really don't know for sure) you can't get it twice and the virus doesn't mutate....

 

[holdsteady]

Losing an hour? Pub closing time hasn't been set at 11 for decades. I think the thought pattern is to stop groups going out until 1am and getting totally tanked.

Since reopening most pubs have shut at 11 with a few at 12 at the weekends, the actual late night economy of nightclubs and bars have stayed shut or restricted their hours.

My point still stands anyway, if you want to get pissed up the change will just make you go out earlier/pre drink more. A group of girls in a pub I was in on Saturday celebrating an 18th and the birthday girl was managing to be sick in the toilets by 9.15 pm so it’s very doable.

 

[holdsteady]

It's also (still) about protecting hospital and particularly critical care capacity.

We can't keep on pretending people aren't going to get it (or it will just disappear if you listen to Trump), but we should do all we can to keep the curve as flat as possible ... and keep doing that until a viable vaccine is available to the masses.

Herd immunity might be fine IF (and we really don't know for sure) you can't get it twice and the virus doesn't mutate....

I think the annoyance amongst a lot of people is this now seems to be endless with no plan or endgame in sight, it’s very vague statements and a mish mash of restrictions which sometimes seem more to be seen to be doing something than actually to be effective.

No one wants to stick their neck out on a solid plan now, it’s starting to look like blame avoidance from politicians and scientists is their priority, the trouble is if people start to recognise that then they will ignore the advice whatever it is, and no law is police able if most of the country disregard it.

 

[Oxt1]

I think the annoyance amongst a lot of people is this now seems to be endless with no plan or endgame in sight, it’s very vague statements and a mish mash of restrictions which sometimes seem more to be seen to be doing something than actually to be effective.

No one wants to stick their neck out on a solid plan now, it’s starting to look like blame avoidance from politicians and scientists is their priority, the trouble is if people start to recognise that then they will ignore the advice whatever it is, and no law is police able if most of the country disregard it.

That is the crux... the solid plan is we have to wait for either a vaccine or for it to just dwindle away, everything else is just about mitigating consequences until such time, and by nature reactionary. The message just wait as a plan is not a palatable one and as such nobody will put their necks out to say that is the case, which is a shame because I think we as a nation are adult enough to be able to say okay, the plan is to wait until we have a vaccine and in the meantime we will need to take measures as and when required to try and prevent it getting out of hand again.

 

[carefreeoufc]

Whilst I’d effectively be cutting my nose on this if I was the govt I’d probably restrict social interactions in people’s homes (apart from direct family/bubbles) and look to push any other kind of socialising between multiple households into public places where it can be managed. Where it’s not managed properly I’d do a fixed penalty notice along the lines of being drunk and disorderly and then I’d issue a fine to the premises.

As has been mentioned I think ultimately we’ll see the opposite of pre-drinking with people going back to house parties/get together from 10pm onwards. Now it’s all well and good suggesting neighbours shop each other to the old bill but in halls of residence and on streets where the majority of housing is student accommodation then it’s unlikely to happen.

As we’ve seen there’s ways around/wrong ways with everything. I think it’s why a proper track/trace/isolate system and acceptance in society has been so important from day one!

 

[ZeroTheHero]

That is the crux... the solid plan is we have to wait for either a vaccine or for it to just dwindle away, everything else is just about mitigating consequences until such time, and by nature reactionary. The message just wait as a plan is not a palatable one and as such nobody will put their necks out to say that is the case, which is a shame because I think we as a nation are adult enough to be able to say okay, the plan is to wait until we have a vaccine and in the meantime we will need to take measures as and when required to try and prevent it getting out of hand again.

Yes, I think that's right. BUT...
Herd immunity may or may not ever work. At the moment apparently somewhere short of 8% of the population in this country have had the virus. That leaves a hell of a lot of us who haven't - and of course there is no guarantee that there is any sort of lasting immunity anyway. Or that the virus won't mutate.
Will it ever just dwindle away? Maybe, but that seems a bit like Trumpian wishful thinking - it *could* happen but surely we have to act as if that isn't the case?
Vaccines? Well the results of the ongoing trials are 'promising'. That means nothing in the long term if they either don't work or the virus mutates quicker than the scientists can keep up.
So, on the basis that we might have to live with this bloody virus for ever, we (as in humanity everywhere) have got to learn to live with it in some way until we get a 'cure' and in case we don't. Better treatments, some vaccines that might help (if not solve) the situation maybe, better hygiene where we can, local measures when there is a flare up etc - but there is only so much we can do.
Man is a social animal and isolating oneself from others for extended periods has got to be bad for us, not to mention the damage to the economies of the world and social cohesion of the countries within it. Open up society fully and you'll get a lot of sickness and death - ongoing.

 

[Essexyellows]

I think the curfew is the government, aka bojo n domcum, being 'seen' to target those currently at the top of its hate blame list... while party donors can go hunting (stags) and shooting (grouse) in large mobs of way over six, with or without a rule !.... whatever happened to the 'world beating' track and trace? , a turkey methinks, and not of the oven ready variety either ?

Field sports have mitigation in place.
The participants are by nature isolated.
You don`t want guns close together and folk generally ride their own horses.
Townies may not like it but the income from field sports creates the country environment that benefits many.
Grouse moors are better for wildlife, falcons & harriers especially when compared to the desolate wastelands "managed" by councils that have banned shooting and just watch the moors burn annually.
Stag hunting (stalking/shooting) is necessary to cull out older/infirm animals and to manage numbers.
The use of dogs for flushing on a hunt isn`t illegal as long as the deer is shot at the end and not taken down by the dogs.

Wonder how you feel about our travelling friends and the illegal coursing of hares for £££££££`s? Their human rights but not human rights if you dress nicely?

 

[ZeroTheHero]

Field sports have mitigation in place.
The participants are by nature isolated.
You don`t want guns close together and folk generally ride their own horses.
Townies may not like it but the income from field sports creates the country environment that benefits many.
Grouse moors are better for wildlife, falcons & harriers especially when compared to the desolate wastelands "managed" by councils that have banned shooting and just watch the moors burn annually.
Stag hunting (stalking/shooting) is necessary to cull out older/infirm animals and to manage numbers.
The use of dogs for flushing on a hunt isn`t illegal as long as the deer is shot at the end and not taken down by the dogs.

Wonder how you feel about our travelling friends and the illegal coursing of hares for £££££££`s? Their human rights but not human rights if you dress nicely?

Anyone who kills animals for fun (however they dress up, whatever their accent, and whatever rationale they give) is a bastard.

 

[Sarge]

Field sports have mitigation in place.
The participants are by nature isolated.
You don`t want guns close together and folk generally ride their own horses.
Townies may not like it but the income from field sports creates the country environment that benefits many.
Grouse moors are better for wildlife, falcons & harriers especially when compared to the desolate wastelands "managed" by councils that have banned shooting and just watch the moors burn annually.
Stag hunting (stalking/shooting) is necessary to cull out older/infirm animals and to manage numbers.
The use of dogs for flushing on a hunt isn`t illegal as long as the deer is shot at the end and not taken down by the dogs.

Wonder how you feel about our travelling friends and the illegal coursing of hares for £££££££`s? Their human rights but not human rights if you dress nicely?

fair assessment

 

[Sarge]

Anyone who kills animals for fun (however they dress up, whatever their accent, and whatever rationale they give) is a bastard.

is that including or excluding fishing? .... asking for an angling friend

 

[ZeroTheHero]

is that including or excluding fishing? .... asking for an angling friend

If they don't put them back or eat them - bastard.

 

[Sarge]

If they don't put them back or eat them - bastard.

fair enough

 

[Essexyellows]

Anyone who kills animals for fun (however they dress up, whatever their accent, and whatever rationale they give) is a bastard.

If they don't put them back or eat them - bastard.

And if they shoot them & eat them?
Nothing more natural than shooting a deer, gralloching in the field and filling the freezer.
No different to the way humanity has worked for millennia, only the tools have changed.

 

[m]

Townies may not like it but the income from field sports creates the country environment that benefits many.
Grouse moors are better for wildlife, falcons & harriers especially when compared to the desolate wastelands "managed" by councils that have banned shooting and just watch the moors burn annually.

That is utter bullshit.

 

[Essexyellows]

That is utter bullshit.

Birds of prey benefit from moorland management, finds study

A long-term study of moorlands has suggested that birds of prey fare better on moors that are managed within the law by the grouse shooting industry than they do if those moors are left untended.

www.countryfile.com

Conservation on grouse moors - Game and Wildlife Conservation Trust

www.gwct.org.uk

Here's how controlled burning on moors benefits wildlife and conservation

The Countryside Alliance's Director of Shooting, Adrian Blackmore, writes for The Yorkshire Post on how Yorkshire moorland should be best maintained. And last year's wildfire of Scotland's Flow Country, as a result of the moorland becoming overgrown, also resulted in over 22 square miles of...

www.countryside-alliance.org

Error - Cookies Turned Off

onlinelibrary.wiley.com

Mountain hare counts important for moorland management - Game and Wildlife Conservation Trust

www.gwct.org.uk

Breeding Birds Survey Project | Moors for the Future

A project discovering how a range of moorland birds are faring over time and whether interventions to benefit them are working | Moors for the Future

www.moorsforthefuture.org.uk

Yep.................. "utter bullshit".

 

[carefreeoufc]

On the shooting thing (as someone who has attended, participated and helped run pheasant shoots) when living back at home there really is no black and white.

Certainly most of the smaller shoots that I’ve been on in the past were predominantly farmers and farm hands taking the afternoon off once a fortnight to go and shoot. Maybe shooting (and taking) a brace or two home with them. Some of the larger shoots I’ve been to you do unfortunately get the London bankers and jewellers who have all the gear, very little idea and shoot and P**s off home in their Chelsea tractors. In those situations again birds were shared between the beaters or were sold by the farmer to places like butchers in the Covered Market.

As with everything these days it’s not really black and white.

The land bit is an interesting one. Personally I don’t think large cover crops of maize etc. looks any better than wasteland. I grew up in Oxfordshire though so I have no idea about moors/fenland et

 

[Marked Ox]

Field sports have mitigation in place.
The participants are by nature isolated.
You don`t want guns close together and folk generally ride their own horses.
Townies may not like it but the income from field sports creates the country environment that benefits many.
Grouse moors are better for wildlife, falcons & harriers especially when compared to the desolate wastelands "managed" by councils that have banned shooting and just watch the moors burn annually.
Stag hunting (stalking/shooting) is necessary to cull out older/infirm animals and to manage numbers.
The use of dogs for flushing on a hunt isn`t illegal as long as the deer is shot at the end and not taken down by the dogs.

Wonder how you feel about our travelling friends and the illegal coursing of hares for £££££££`s? Their human rights but not human rights if you dress nicely?

I'd say the farmers do far more for the country environment than any hunting/field sports.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

And if they shoot them & eat them?
Nothing more natural than shooting a deer, gralloching in the field and filling the freezer.
No different to the way humanity has worked for millennia, only the tools have changed.

If you eat what you kill and kill because you have to eat - fine. But you are not surely pretending that people who hunt do it for any other reason at all than because they enjoy killing things? If they enjoy riding, do it without killing things. If wildlife needs culling then that is the least efficient method of doing it.

I repeat 'if you like killing animals for fun, you are a bastard' and if you seek to excuse them, you are just as bad.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

Birds of prey benefit from moorland management, finds study

A long-term study of moorlands has suggested that birds of prey fare better on moors that are managed within the law by the grouse shooting industry than they do if those moors are left untended.

www.countryfile.com

Conservation on grouse moors - Game and Wildlife Conservation Trust

www.gwct.org.uk

Here's how controlled burning on moors benefits wildlife and conservation

The Countryside Alliance's Director of Shooting, Adrian Blackmore, writes for The Yorkshire Post on how Yorkshire moorland should be best maintained. And last year's wildfire of Scotland's Flow Country, as a result of the moorland becoming overgrown, also resulted in over 22 square miles of...

www.countryside-alliance.org

Error - Cookies Turned Off

onlinelibrary.wiley.com

Mountain hare counts important for moorland management - Game and Wildlife Conservation Trust

www.gwct.org.uk

Breeding Birds Survey Project | Moors for the Future

A project discovering how a range of moorland birds are faring over time and whether interventions to benefit them are working | Moors for the Future

www.moorsforthefuture.org.uk

Yep.................. "utter bullshit".

Better for wildlife than the natural habitat that existed for millions of years before the grouse moors were artificially created and maintained by an army of serfs on behalf of the landed gentry

 

[Sheik djibouti]

And do you really think that shooting parties on a corporate jolly really eat what they shoot

A small proportion of what gets shot finds it's way to game purveyors and butchers...another small percentage gets sold in the shadows (out the boot of a car, in the pub, to friends and family etc).

And the majority of the rest is disposed of, particularly Pheasants. Do a quick search of "stink pits" and you will soon realise what happens to an awful lot of it.....