Climate change, unequivocal evidence.

gofish2

gofish2

Level: Chris Maguire
(79 Apps, 22 Gls)
I'm interested to know what others think about this and the protestors. Personally I am heartened to see people waking up.
climate.nasa.gov

Evidence - NASA Science

Earth's climate has changed throughout history. Just in the last 800,000 years, there have been eight cycles of ice ages and warmer periods, with the end of
climate.nasa.gov climate.nasa.gov
 
gofish2 said:
I'm interested to know what others think about this and the protestors. Personally I am heartened to see people waking up.
climate.nasa.gov

Evidence - NASA Science

Earth's climate has changed throughout history. Just in the last 800,000 years, there have been eight cycles of ice ages and warmer periods, with the end of
climate.nasa.gov climate.nasa.gov
Click to expand...

Certainly brought it to the centre of political attention over Brexit which is quite a feat. Good luck to them, a demonstration that has got their message across while putting pressure on the Govt in terms of cost and public relations.

I did find it strange that they targeted the railways considering it is public transport though. Surely better to go all out blocking the road system as people will still need to travel so public transport would make more sense.

Only from the headline in the Oxford Mail, they will be protesting in Oxford soon.
 
There’s always the opportunity to vote for the Green Party at a democratic election, after all Green means Green ?
 
If the human race is f*****g the planet up with industrialisation, etc, then obviously drastic measures need to be taken to preserve our children and beyond's safety.
One thing sticks in my mind. Many years ago, Earth was a warm planet. Then came the ice age. Then came the weather systems that we have today. So it went from warm, to cold, to warm and maybe warmer. What caused the ice age? What got rid of it? Was it man? Don't think so............could our weather be changing due to coincidence, like before? Answers on a f*****g large post card please.
 
Notaswindonfan said:
There’s always the opportunity to vote for the Green Party at a democratic election, after all Green means Green ?
Click to expand...
True, but the chances of the Green party being in a position of significant power are limited. That said, they provide an informed and thoughtful alternative to mainstream politics, which keeps the pressure on the government of the day. I am rethinking my lifestyle and and considering what my contribution to change can be. I am truly shocked at the damage we have done.
 
gofish2 said:
True, but the chances of the Green party being in a position of significant power are limited. That said, they provide an informed and thoughtful alternative to mainstream politics, which keeps the pressure on the government of the day. I am rethinking my lifestyle and and considering what my contribution to change can be. I am truly shocked at the damage we have done.
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But did we cause the ice age, gofish?
 
amershamdave said:
If the human race is f*****g the planet up with industrialisation, etc, then obviously drastic measures need to be taken to preserve our children and beyond's safety.
One thing sticks in my mind. Many years ago, Earth was a warm planet. Then came the ice age. Then came the weather systems that we have today. So it went from warm, to cold, to warm and maybe warmer. What caused the ice age? What got rid of it? Was it man? Don't think so............could our weather be changing due to coincidence, like before? Answers on a f*****g large post card please.
Click to expand...
What we didn't have then was large scale industrialisation, deforestation and carbon footprints of the magnitude we now have. We do now have the science to prove the correlation between these things and the rapid warming which is unparalleled.
 
Very probably it was natural geothermic causes and the planet was able to self regulate and correct. That component has clearly been compromised by unnatural factors that its inhabitants are responsible for. The relentless pursuit of resources without replacement is exhausting what was once self sustaining.
 
For what its worth, here's my take on warm/cold/hot weather changes.
It is widely accepted that a comet or very large meteor, or meteors exploding on Earth thousands of years ago, wiped out the dinosaurs (and maybe many other life-forms on this planet). The clouds that arose, went round the entire earth, blotting out the sun for many years, hence the ice-age. Eventually, the clouds dissipated and the sun started to come through again, heating up the planet enough, for life to begin again.
In 1980, in America, Mount St. Helens erupted and sent out massive clouds which went round the world. I remember, in 1981, people saying that our not-so-good summer was down to the eruption's clouds that blotted out the sun. That was just one volcano. Imagine the size of the explosions that did for the dinosaurs. If clouds caused by explosions were to blame for dead dinosaurs and a shitty 1981 summer, then you have to say that all the smoke from factories belching up towards the skies must be harming our ozone layers. If that is the case, what is the answer? Is a smoke-free world, with nuclear energy safe? Chernoble comes to mind, as does that nuclear power plant in Japan when they had that terrible tsunami around 8 years ago.
Wind farms? Do they rely on wind? What happens if there is no wind?
Solar panelling? What happens if there's no sun?
What about keeping the people on Earth nice and warm? The Tories and Nigel bloody Farage are both full of hot air.......could that help?
Tbh, I haven't got a clue what the answer is, for saving the planet. The trees in the rain forests in outer Botswana and other places that are chopped down in great numbers are being destroyed by man's greedy needs. Man is definitely the reason for their destruction.
 
The thing is AnershamDave, the answers to all of your questions are known and have been out there for years now. You dont gave to guess or suppose. Climate change seems to be one of those issues where everyone thinks they can have a detailed and valid perspective without taking into account the oodles of scientific measurement and analysis that has been done!
 
The planets climate is cyclical and influenced by events.
We can`t "change" anything because we are all consumers & it is that consumption that is creating the impact.
Everything we do creates a climate impact in some way or form.
We are over populated and that population is growing as more people survive, aided by technology etc.

However "climate change, CO2 etc" are also great excuses to tax us more...it doesn`t change our behaviour though.

Whilst India & China et al race to "catch us up" that is the problem where populations vastly exceed ours and they care not a jot about the resources they consume.

We`ll all be carbon by the time the human race wipes itself out.
 
Im a member of XR and frankly think everyone should be! If not someone with conviction to march, and be prepared to get arrested (prob not charged) then at least by signing petitions. Attemborough's documentary woke everyone up. Sadly the Greens havent got the gumption to adopt" XR - they prefer to flatline their pitiful support rather than surf on XR popularity (5,000 people a day signing up). They are a disgrace as an environmental party. Of course XR need to harness with a political party now to get the demands across. The government otherwise just spin rhetoric on how they have improved things and are committed to zero emisisons before 2050 nut it is too little too late and we all know they will kick the can down the road. Every one of us needs to radically change our consumer habits and those in the supply chain need to go plastic free. Playing European Poker Tour Monte Carlo Main Event on Monday - proudly wearing my XR "home made" recycles t-shirts
 
The protestors looked like a middle class liberal bourgeois having a week out in London, who were treated in a lovely soft manner by the police. If football fans had done that level of stuff, the police would not have hesitated to get stuck in and not been so polite in their removal.

As for climate change, I think most people would agree we need to better with our environment, but the current thought police is perhaps more restrictive like a religion. We constantly hear the next 10 years are critical, but the earth does what it does and we simply do not know enough about planets billions of year history to undo it. We're flailing around hoping we get it right.

We must use our resources wiser, we must be honest about power creation and consumption and how we get about. Shrieking about timelines, ruined futures and that sort of thing doesn't tend to sell to those who aren't engaged. Most people just want to get on with their lives.

ljs said:
Taxing doesn't change our behaviour or buying habits?

The first example that springs to mind is the 5p charge on plastic bags thst had a big effect on the number used.
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If I recall, that 5p tax has done the opposite of what they hoped. People are still buying bags like they got them for free last time.
 
amershamdave said:
So, why do you think we had an ice age? Man-made or just unlucky?
Click to expand...
Every few thousand years there is a catastrophic event. You are right about the dinosaurs - a huge and powerful flood that washed everything away. The bone caves in Germany (worth a read) were crammed with bones of different dinosaurs and animals all piled on top of each other at one end - I thin you are right about the gases from recent volcanos affecting temperature, but an ice age wold have developed if the planets came too close and all volcano's became active. There would have been darkness for years. leading to an ice age. Only those from the mountains would have survived and their knowledge remained intact. Luckily, we haven't had a catastrophy like that for thousands of years and the earth has healed. The gases which now poison it are mot coming from volcano's, rather through the burning of oil and fossil fuels, industry - producing crap plastic things we dont need - and of course our livestock. Everyone knows the biggest contributor is the land and water we need for meat production. It' all about what you believe, and then acting on your beliefs to make changes at a micro level. We can't have 1m people making the changes as 20bn look on. Unless we are prepared to address this on an individual level nothing will change.
 
For me, the overwhelming evidence is that we are screwing up big time. And it's selfish and short sighted just to go on doing what we are doing because the disaster will *probably* happen after we are dead or hoping that if we cross our fingers it might not happen - that is a politicians' view.

And do you know what? If we cut down our wasting of natural resources and the scientists are all wrong (however unlikely that is) we will reduce pollution, plastic in the oceans, poor air quality, the amount of animal extinctions etc anyway - which (I think we's all surely agree) is a good thing. If we don't do anything and the scientists are anywhere near being correct, then we have doomed the race to a very uncertain future at best.

Of course, the tricky part is HOW to reverse the slide. Not using one use plastics, recycling and buying your electricity from a company generating it sustainably is a start (not much of one), but it needs governments to get together and do something concerted, big and now. In these days of increasing isolationism that seems unlikely. It is ironic that if there was an asteroid heading for the planet, I'm sure the world would get together and pool resources to do something about it. Because climate change is more insidious, it somehow allows people to 'deny' or just ignore it.
 
Pete Burrett said:
It is difficult not to be cynical about our chances or slowing down, let alone reversing, the fact (note 'FACT', Donald Trump) of global warming when the biggest consumer societies on earth are paying lip service to it and the biggest polluter on earth shows no sign of changing.

I always feel uncomfortable when western nations preach to emerging nations about how bad their behaviour is. How soon we forget that 200/250 years ago the UK started industrialising without any concern for environmental damage, yet we criticise others for doing exactly the same now. And yes, I do understand that the world is (or should be) aware of the consequences now, whereas in 1750/1800 the UK couldn't have been.

Nevertheless, the genie is now out of the bottle. Indonesian rain forests are disappearing because of OUR need for palm oil in virtually every product.

We CAN make local differences by reducing use of plastics etc etc etc, and every little helps, but the overall direction seems to be that we're screwed. Nearly 8 billion of us today, and increasing exponentially. Over-population was always the ticking time bomb, and that's not going to change.

(Written in a hurry and with no time to edit. :))
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Tbf, when we had our industrial revolution, the impact on the global environment wasn't known unlike for the likes of India, China etc. Add into this the likes of China and India are simultaneously investing in developing technology in renewable energy sources.
 
Interesting in "Food Unwrapped" this week that American beef farmers were fed a vegan burger on their barbie and none had any idea and all said tasted great. If everyone switched as an alternative to meat burgers, and we farmed less livestock, it would make a huge difference in methane emissions and Co2 if plants were grown instead. Fact - just saying - yet we all sit around waiting for politicians to press the magic button and fix everything. We have become a greedy self centred society, believing we can do what we want, how we want, and when we want - and f**k anyone who says any different. The biggest challenge isn't identifying the reasons for change, it is re-educating the current crop of consumers, sitting in their plastic trash eating pizza, that the only way the world will change is if THEY stop, and think!
 
Pete Burrett said:
Yep. I did cover your first point, but let's give China and India credit for making an effort. I believe the USA is still the biggest consumer economy in the world? They have the political and financial clout to take a lead on climate change, but the current incumbent is more interested in bullshit internal politics.
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I'm hoping the individual US states carry on doing the necessary work as many have said they will. The moron in the White House can't stop them thankfully if they do.
 
ljs said:
Taxing doesn't change our behaviour or buying habits?

The first example that springs to mind is the 5p charge on plastic bags thst had a big effect on the number used.
Click to expand...

So we all get "bags for life"...... that the store replaces for free when worn out.... there is still a massive climate impact. It has just shifted and single use aren`t that bad..... how we choose to dispose of them was the issue.
https://stateofgreen.com/en/partner...astic-bags-are-more-environmentally-friendly/
 
FalmouthOx said:
Interesting in "Food Unwrapped" this week that American beef farmers were fed a vegan burger on their barbie and none had any idea and all said tasted great. If everyone switched as an alternative to meat burgers, and we farmed less livestock, it would make a huge difference in methane emissions and Co2 if plants were grown instead. Fact - just saying - yet we all sit around waiting for politicians to press the magic button and fix everything. We have become a greedy self centred society, believing we can do what we want, how we want, and when we want - and f**k anyone who says any different. The biggest challenge isn't identifying the reasons for change, it is re-educating the current crop of consumers, sitting in their plastic trash eating pizza, that the only way the world will change is if THEY stop, and think!
Click to expand...

Another example of "hidden impact" is the vegetarian/vegan myth ..... better to eat a lamb chop from a farm down the road than an avocado from the otherside of the planet...
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...edods-protein-crops-jack-monroe-a8177541.html
 
FalmouthOx said:
Im a member of XR and frankly think everyone should be! If not someone with conviction to march, and be prepared to get arrested (prob not charged) then at least by signing petitions. Attemborough's documentary woke everyone up. Sadly the Greens havent got the gumption to adopt" XR - they prefer to flatline their pitiful support rather than surf on XR popularity (5,000 people a day signing up). They are a disgrace as an environmental party. Of course XR need to harness with a political party now to get the demands across. The government otherwise just spin rhetoric on how they have improved things and are committed to zero emisisons before 2050 nut it is too little too late and we all know they will kick the can down the road. Every one of us needs to radically change our consumer habits and those in the supply chain need to go plastic free. Playing European Poker Tour Monte Carlo Main Event on Monday - proudly wearing my XR "home made" recycles t-shirts
Click to expand...

On your computer, consuming energy, supported by the very technology you object to the impact of?

"Radically change your consumer habits".......... unless there is a few quid in it eh?? Hypocrite.
 
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