International News Climate Change

Foley

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So, some have suggested that they want a 'remain ' Brexit for their children.
In my view a far far greater threat is climate change.
At least people seem to be standing up against the governments (not quite sure how with US and Brazilian Presidents this will make any difference)
Is it all too late so not worth worrying about?
 

Sarge

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I think its both admirable and also kind of hypocritical that hordes of schoolkids are protesting and demonstrating about climate change

As I presume these are the same schoolkids who's pyjama-mammas run them to and from school, every day in their 2nd family vehicle, usually an oversized, four-wheel drive, gas guzzler? - which is both unnecessary.. and more significantly a contributory factor to pollutants in the atmosphere..... if said school kids decided to walk, or ride a bicycle to school, maybe that'd help the situation?
 

ZeroTheHero

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I think its both admirable and also kind of hypocritical that hordes of schoolkids are protesting and demonstrating about climate change

As I presume these are the same schoolkids who's pyjama-mammas run them to and from school, every day in their 2nd family vehicle, usually an oversized, four-wheel drive, gas guzzler? - which is both unnecessary.. and more significantly a contributory factor to pollutants in the atmosphere..... if said school kids decided to walk, or ride a bicycle to school, maybe that'd help the situation?
Not convinced by that Sarge. There were kids protesting in my local town centre (my wife went along to support them). Many of them will go to school on the local school busses, and many of them are walked to their local schools in the local villages or even the town centre.
Of course, if children can get to school that way then that's for the best - but in a rural area like mine, driving the kids to school can be pretty much the only option for some.
I think it is admirable of the kids, full stop.
 

Sarge

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Not convinced by that Sarge. There were kids protesting in my local town centre (my wife went along to support them). Many of them will go to school on the local school busses, and many of them are walked to their local schools in the local villages or even the town centre.
Of course, if children can get to school that way then that's for the best - but in a rural area like mine, driving the kids to school can be pretty much the only option for some.
I think it is admirable of the kids, full stop.
fair comment @ZeroTheHero .... living in Headington, I see school run yummy mummys at a number of local schools. clogging up roads, frequently double parked, at 8.30am and around 3pm mon-fri in term time, IMO most of the' little darlings', I think could very easily walk the relatively short distances theyre driven every day
 

Gary Baldi

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What do these kids plan to do to get China to stop polluting the oceans and building coal power stations? Or stop the child slaves from mining cobalt for batteries/solar panels? Or stop birds being killed by wind farms? Or have a power grid capable of changing from fossil fuels to electrically powered cars? Or safely dispose of those batteries?

It's very laudable skipping school to protest, but the reality is, the numbers don't correlate with the crisis level hysteria that is being peddled. The cynic in me feels to me like the other stuff ain't worked, let's make it into a bigger crisis in the hope to engage people. Is the world going to end in 15 years time? Highly unlikely from climate change - we just don't know what will happen if we do nothing or try everything. Can anyone empirically prove it?

Do we have to look after the world better? Hell yes, 10000000% we do. But at the moment it's all a lot of shouting and emotion, not enough realistic and practical solutions that don't require obscene amounts of money to "hopefully" fix the issue.
 

SteMerritt

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What do these kids plan to do to get China to stop polluting the oceans and building coal power stations? Or stop the child slaves from mining cobalt for batteries/solar panels? Or stop birds being killed by wind farms? Or have a power grid capable of changing from fossil fuels to electrically powered cars? Or safely dispose of those batteries?

It's very laudable skipping school to protest, but the reality is, the numbers don't correlate with the crisis level hysteria that is being peddled. The cynic in me feels to me like the other stuff ain't worked, let's make it into a bigger crisis in the hope to engage people. Is the world going to end in 15 years time? Highly unlikely from climate change - we just don't know what will happen if we do nothing or try everything. Can anyone empirically prove it?

Do we have to look after the world better? Hell yes, 10000000% we do. But at the moment it's all a lot of shouting and emotion, not enough realistic and practical solutions that don't require obscene amounts of money to "hopefully" fix the issue.
Might as well not bother then, and go back to their Nintendos.

Good for them showing an interest in the world around them instead of being more concerned with themselves.
 

dickwalton1964

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Agree totally.
Just give up?
This is a HUGE issue. Why wouldn't the young people be worried about the end of the planet?


It might well be a huge issue but there are more pressing ‘huge issues’. Just an excuse for a march if you ask me. Worried about the planet ? Look at the images circulating on the internet of the massive amounts of litter they left. It’s a bigger clear up operation needed than Woodstock in the 1960’s ! There’s a lot of environmentalists who talk a great game but sadly lacking when it comes to executing what they preach.
 

Paul Cannell

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They're not very respectful to B. Johnson, D. Trump, A. Merkin or F. Macron either. What is wrong with these kids?
 

Foley

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It might well be a huge issue but there are more pressing ‘huge issues’. Just an excuse for a march if you ask me. Worried about the planet ? Look at the images circulating on the internet of the massive amounts of litter they left. It’s a bigger clear up operation needed than Woodstock in the 1960’s ! There’s a lot of environmentalists who talk a great game but sadly lacking when it comes to executing what they preach.
Mmm.
Mr Trump would back you up totally.
 
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ZeroTheHero

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It might well be a huge issue but there are more pressing ‘huge issues’. Just an excuse for a march if you ask me.
More pressing huge issues? Than the potential catastrophic rise of sea levels, change in climate, lack of water supplies in some parts of the world, the refugee crises that will ensue and the wars for control of resources?

What are they then?
 

RyanioBirdio

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You mean the false images yeah?

The scary thing is that most people believe stuff like this. Photo and video editing has gotten to such a high level now and is done with such ease that you can make anything you like, and even if you don’t make things up yourself nobody demands context anymore regardless. You can show whatever image you like and people’s own beliefs, opinions and prejudice will determine its accuracy and context. This is exactly why the data companies use Facebook to pump select images and fake news articles at specifically targeted people, which in turn sways the way in which people vote in elections or referendums. Again - and I make no apologies for saying it because the data is out there to back me up - older people are more susceptible to it. My parents (sixties) are prime examples of this. In their minds it can’t be fake or strongly misleading if it’s on the internet, because the news has to tell you the truth and it wouldn’t be allowed if it was fake. If it was a lie someone would get in trouble and they’d have to take it down or admit it wasn’t true, so it must be accurate. Any suggestion it’s blatant manipulation tactics or pure propaganda is just dismissed as conspiratorial nonsense - you’re crazy if you think people would do such a thing!

I’m all for the youth taking an interest in something so serious that will ultimately affect them more than anybody else, and I think with all due respect that unless they’re planning on doing something to help or educate themselves on the issues at hand, those who have already had their prime time in the sun should probably wind their necks in a little bit. This is their future.
 

HayfieldYellow

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Worried about the planet ? Look at the images circulating on the internet of the massive amounts of litter they left. It’s a bigger clear up operation needed than Woodstock in the 1960’s ! There’s a lot of environmentalists who talk a great game but sadly lacking when it comes to executing what they preach.

Many of those photos turn out to be hoaxes. For example, here and here. Climate change deniers fight dirty.
 

HayfieldYellow

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What do these kids plan to do to get China to stop polluting the oceans and building coal power stations?

You really need to work on your critical thinking.

Firstly, no, a single kid in the West can't stop China from polluting the oceans. But does that mean they should shut up and say nothing?

Secondly, the idea that because China is the worst offender, that lets the UK off the hook, is just ridiculous. If you take that "thinking" to its logical conclusion, it means that countries are only required to tackle environmental problems in strictly reverse order of their impact. Even the US (in second place in the CO2 emissions league) could logically use the same excuse - it doesn't have to do anything until China reduces its omissions and drops down into second place. It's a logical nonsense and an excuse for blaming someone else and doing nothing ourselves.

Thirdly, much of China's omissions are a byproduct of supplying consumers in the West anyway.

Fourthly, China has a bloody massive population. Its emissions per head are similar to ours and much lower than those in the US.

Or stop birds being killed by wind farms?

I know a bit about this, and it's simply not a statistically significant problem, and furthermore you are blindly ignoring the number of birds killed by conventional power generation. It's just lazy, unscientific thinking.

You really should be a bit more sceptical about some of the highly motivated and well-funded sources that seek to undermine the environmental movement for their own ends, and stop being one of their useful idiots. Do you never wonder who funds the "Global Warming Policy Foundation", why organisations like that have such blandly worthy sounding names (when their aims are anything but neutral), and why they're so keen that we don't find out who funds them? There's the real conspiracy.
 
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Oxymoron

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Now call me an old cynic, but if you had offered me the chance to hook school for a day when I was 14, I'd have taken it......
 

unification

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I work near Westminster and I was mightily impressed with the attitudes of the marchers/protesters. I had a wander at lunchtime on Friday and what I saw was a group of inspired, intelligent and mindful kids who had informed themselves of the problems and had the wherewithal to do something about it and march on parliament. It was not an excuse for bunking off, it was a day away from school that would capture the world's attention. And it did.

A bad habit of mine is dipping into those godawful below-the-line Have Your Say sections on the BBC News website. I looked at the top-rated comments on the story about the protesters and what did I find? Comments such as:

'I bet mummy and daddy drove them their in the Range Rover'
'Why couldn't they protest on a Saturday if they care so much?'
'How much litter did they leave?'
'Do they know how much their phones and tech destroy the environment?'

It's a attitude that needs binning. If anyone suggests something to improve the environment or tackle climate change, they instantly come under personal attack for what they're not doing. Someone says they're reducing their meat intake, they're chastised for taking a flight. Someone announces they'll drive an electric or hybrid car, they're given vitriol from the right wing and called a hypocrite for having an old, poorly insulated house.

The fact of the matter is that the modern world is still going on. We can't give up and live in the woods like the Amish free from any industrial technology. Flights are still necessary as there isn't a realistic alternative to many travel routes yet (Greta Thunberg proved that in her eco-yacht journey to the UN across the Atlantic. Not in the slightest bit realistic for the rest of us), meat will be an essential part of many diets due to growing seasons and cultural practices, vehicles can't just be binned in favour of public transport or zero-carbon methods just yet.

What we can all do it just try that little bit more. Do something to promote environmentally better living. You don't have to be a oat yogurt-knitting vegan hippie living in an eco-yurt and growing your own quinoa, but you can buy a travel mug rather than relying on a disposable cup for your morning coffee, have a veggie meal a few times a week, offset the saving from your budget flight with a donation to a charity promoting green welfare, consider if solar panels could save you money in the long term and do get you off the grid of fossil fuels.

Marginal gains, folks. If we all do something, it can add up to a lot. Just don't chastise those who give it a go, but fall short in other areas. As long as they try in some areas, others will make up for their shortfall.
 
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ZeroTheHero

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All true, Unification.

And (as I have said before) for all the climate change 'deniers': If global warming is all a vast conspiracy by someone/anyone (99.99% of climate scientists, meteorologists, geologists etc?) and we cut down on our consumption of fossil fuels (which I don't think anyone is loopy enough to claim are infinite!) then we will have reduced emissions, improved air quality, preserved the fossil fuels that are left, developed new technologies, new industries etc etc etc. If by some remote chance, climate change is a fact (and who knows, that 99.99% might actually be telling the truth!) we might well have done all that AND saved millions of lives and made the planet a more pleasant and habitable place for our children and grandchildren to live on. Seems like a win-win for actually doing something to me.

But of course for some idiots (some in positions of power), just saying 'I don't believe it' (never mind the experts, read the conspiracy websites eh!) is a way of 'justifying' their continued support of the reckless exploitation of the world to their own advantage. And, as you say, attacking anyone who does anything about it because they aren't perfect and live in the modern world is just another facet of the same self-justifying selfishness.
 

Gary Baldi

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You really need to work on your critical thinking.

Firstly, no, a single kid in the West can't stop China from polluting the oceans. But does that mean they should shut up and say nothing?

Secondly, the idea that because China is the worst offender, that lets the UK off the hook, is just ridiculous. If you take that "thinking" to its logical conclusion, it means that countries are only required to tackle environmental problems in strictly reverse order of their impact. Even the US (in second place in the CO2 emissions league) could logically use the same excuse - it doesn't have to do anything until China reduces its omissions and drops down into second place. It's a logical nonsense and an excuse for blaming someone else and doing nothing ourselves.

Thirdly, much of China's omissions are a byproduct of supplying consumers in the West anyway.

Fourthly, China has a bloody massive population. Its emissions per head are similar to ours and much lower than those in the US.



I know a bit about this, and it's simply not a statistically significant problem, and furthermore you are blindly ignoring the number of birds killed by conventional power generation. It's just lazy, unscientific thinking.

You really should be a bit more sceptical about some of the highly motivated and well-funded sources that seek to undermine the environmental movement for their own ends, and stop being one of their useful idiots. Do you never wonder who funds the "Global Warming Policy Foundation", why organisations like that have such blandly worthy sounding names (when their aims are anything but neutral), and why they're so keen that we don't find out who funds them? There's the real conspiracy.
As usual, you go off on a rambling tangent... Whatever

Your point on China's populace is a good one, even if their emissions are similar to ours, the scale of population is much, much larger than ours - a simple step change for them will have a larger impact than the UK can ever achieve on a global basis. But how can you then rise their poor out of poverty? The same for India. Where do the precious metals come from to support an ever increasing world populations non-fossil fuelled power needs??

So while protesting about climate change is nice, it does little to address the reality of the multi economic and societal planet we live on and the challenges we have. I'm all for being a better custodian for this planet and doing more of the basics, I can do without the ongoing shrill hysteria and anti-capitalist politics that in some areas masquerades as schemes and points of view. If you dare to criticise Greta, it's like being on the end of a cults wrath.

We need to be better, but we need to stop patronising people about flights and how many kids they have. It's incredibly patronising
 

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