Away Match Day Thread 17/02/2024 L1: Wycombe Wanderers v OUFC

[Northstandboy]

POST MATCH PACK:

Post Match Discussion

Interview - Des Buckingham

Interview - Stephan Negru

Interview - Matt Bloomfield

Match Highlights

Match Report

Ref Watch

Fans View

 

[Bicester Yellow]

Anyone who is complaining about Buckingham at this point needs to give their head a shake. He was never going to come in & hit the ground running. We are still carrying passengers and players in the squad who are not good enough. Whatever happens this season. I expect long to be the first position he replaces. If that doesn’t happen then that’s when I will start to doubt he knows what he’s doing because he obviously wouldn’t be able to be ruthless. That’s what we need in the summer, ruthless recruitment and removal of weak links. Let’s hope it happens.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

I keep seeing "this is a poor league" as a re-occurring theme in many threads.

How has that conclusion been reached and how is this measured? Is this based on any empirical evidence and compared to previous League 1 seasons?

Just wondered how this has been established.

 

[MustardYellow]

I keep seeing "this is a poor league" as a re-occurring theme in many threads.

How has that conclusion been reached and how is this measured? Is this based on any empirical evidence and compared to previous League 1 seasons?

Just wondered how this has been established.

I'm not really sure it's something that can be measured. Any analysis into points totals can be looked at either way.

One thing I would say though is how many teams have you watched us play and gone 'they're a very good team'? Only one I can think of is Peterborough. No one else looks much beyond 'decent'.

 

[m]

I keep seeing "this is a poor league" as a re-occurring theme in many threads.

How has that conclusion been reached and how is this measured? Is this based on any empirical evidence and compared to previous League 1 seasons?

Just wondered how this has been established.

Was a question I was going to ask.

 

[Foley]

I keep seeing "this is a poor league" as a re-occurring theme in many threads.

How has that conclusion been reached and how is this measured? Is this based on any empirical evidence and compared to previous League 1 seasons?

Just wondered how this has been established.

I was thinking the same. Last season according to many, we stayed up because the other teams were so bad!

I think in reality, there are fewer really good teams because the teams that came down from the Championship have been relatively poor ( Reading, Blackpool, Wigan).

The poorer teams are probably better this season (nobody is as bad as FGR were), and Cheltenham , and even Charlton are not that bad!!

 

[MustardYellow]

I was thinking the same. Last season according to many, we stayed up because the other teams were so bad!

I think in reality, there are fewer really good teams because the teams that came down from the Championship have been relatively poor ( Reading, Blackpool, Wigan).

The poorer teams are probably better this season (nobody is as bad as FGR were), and Cheltenham , and even Charlton are not that bad!!

Are not that bad compared to what though? I wouldn't say the top 6 this season is full of good teams of a high quality. We're comparing teams that aren't that good to teams that aren't that good!

 

[PottersRightBoot]

I keep seeing "this is a poor league" as a re-occurring theme in many threads.

How has that conclusion been reached and how is this measured? Is this based on any empirical evidence and compared to previous League 1 seasons?

Just wondered how this has been established.

Knowledgeable supporters watching lots of games is as good a marker as any.

Cf the quality of referees in L1 is the worst it’s been for years.

 

[PottersRightBoot]

I was thinking the same. Last season according to many, we stayed up because the other teams were so bad!

I think in reality, there are fewer really good teams because the teams that came down from the Championship have been relatively poor ( Reading, Blackpool, Wigan).

The poorer teams are probably better this season (nobody is as bad as FGR were), and Cheltenham , and even Charlton are not that bad!!

Don’t forget Carlisle. They are woeful. Also Fleetwood.

 

[PottersRightBoot]

I'm not really sure it's something that can be measured. Any analysis into points totals can be looked at either way.

One thing I would say though is how many teams have you watched us play and gone 'they're a very good team'? Only one I can think of is Peterborough. No one else looks much beyond 'decent'.

Of course it can. It’s called ‘using your eyes’.

 

[MustardYellow]

Of course it can. It’s called ‘using your eyes’.

I meant measured in terms of using numbers.

Anyone who's watched a decent amount of L1 games this season can see the quality is overall pretty poor.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

Knowledgeable supporters watching lots of games is as good a marker as any.

Cf the quality of referees in L1 is the worst it’s been for years.

Who's making the judgement on whether said supporters are knowledgeable or not

They could've been watching 300 games a season for the last 20+ years and still be pretty clueless/myopic/ on what they're watching and they've never actually been involved in football in any other capacity at any level, other than watching it. . . But just because they are confident in their opinions, think this makes them qualified to pass judgement.

On the other hand, they could use all available sources of statistical data on individual and team performances over a long period of time and compare and contrast this to reach a conclusion about how said teams and individuals are performing, comparative to previous seasons.

I think it is extremely difficult, in fact nigh on impossible to say with any certainty whether or not a league is poorer from one season to the next, because there are simply too many variables to factor in to make any meaningful analysis.

Again, is there evidence that supports refs being worse, or is it just how frustrated we might be feeling with their decision making? Are they worse, for example than the conference refs during those wilderness years? Surely, to make any meaningful statement, surely you would need a panel of "experts" to analyse each game in depth and reach consensus on the number of decisions that the ref got wrong and how this ultimately impacted on the game.

 

[Followtheox1]

Also the fact that while exciting goodrham does not play with width. He starts narrow and cramps space & doesn’t keep the width in our side, brilliantly talented but doesn’t help his teammates in this regard & something he can improve on in my view, Murphy is better in this regard as is Burey from the little I’ve seen of him.

It's the way that many modern "wingers" play. It's how they are taught , i.e Saka, Foden etc. When he plays on the left, it can work with Leigh overlapping giving width. One thing that confused me on Saturday was that when Harris moved out wide, when Goodwin came on, he moved to the left with Goodrham moving to the right. Goodrham is much more effective on the left. I think he will be come a no 10 type player.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

Don’t forget Carlisle. They are woeful. Also Fleetwood.

I'd also say that Peterborough are woeful....at this moment in time. And yet they came here and looked like the best team in the division, but they can't buy a win at present.

Some teams make others look good when they play them, and some teams make others look crap when they play them. So many variables will surely go into why this happens that it is very difficult to draw any meaningful conclusions. All teams and individuals have off days and also have days where everything just comes together . . . and then you have to factor in confidence and momentum, which can always make a team achieve more (or less) than the sum of its parts might otherwise suggest.

 

[Eric Blair]

I'd also say that Peterborough are woeful....at this moment in time. And yet they came here and looked like the best team in the division, but they can't buy a win at present.

Some teams make others look good when they play them, and some teams make others look crap when they play them. So many variables will surely go into why this happens that it is very difficult to draw any meaningful conclusions. All teams and individuals have off days and also have days where everything just comes together . . . and then you have to factor in confidence and momentum, which can always make a team achieve more (or less) than the sum of its parts might otherwise suggest.

Decent point

 

[Sheik djibouti]

I meant measured in terms of using numbers.

Anyone who's watched a decent amount of L1 games this season can see the quality is overall pretty poor.

Based on?

Maybe if you could point to the evidence that teams are misplacing more passes, more shots are off target, more tackles are being missed, more free kicks are being conceeded, less clean sheets are being kept, less goals are being scored, that might be a start. Or even a comparison to previous seasons in terms of points won/goals for/against at this point in the season.

But just take misplaced passes as an example (ie did not reach the intended target). Was it because the player just did a crap inaccurate kick, or was it because of the way the defending team closed the player down to force the error. Was it a forced or unforced error.

Same with shots on/off target - was it unforced, or down to the way it was defended. Or shots/goal ratio - did the keeper have a "worldy"?

 

[Eric Blair]

I meant measured in terms of using numbers.

Anyone who's watched a decent amount of L1 games this season can see the quality is overall pretty poor.

The quality of football is pretty good in my opinion. What is different this season is that there aren’t two teams who are obviously much better than everyone else. Even Portsmouth are catchable for Bolton and Derby.

Now the quality of referees in League One. That is a different matter.

 

[MustardYellow]

Based on?

Maybe if you could point to the evidence that teams are misplacing more passes, more shots are off target, more tackles are being missed, more free kicks are being conceeded, less clean sheets are being kept, less goals are being scored, that might be a start.

But just take misplaced passes as an example (ie did not reach the intended target). Was it because the player just did a crap inaccurate kick, or was it because of the way the defending team closed the player down to force the error. Was it a forced or unforced error.

Same with shots on/off target - was it unforced, or down to the way it was defended. Or shots/goal ratio - did the keeper have a "worldy"?

As I said in an earlier post, you can take any of those numbers either way, and as you rightly say it could be down to a number of variables. If passing accuracy was higher this season (for example), you could say that's evidence the quality is better or alternatively say it's evidence more teams are playing it safe and just passing round the back more, taking less risks etc. It's something that's impossible to determine through numbers.

It's also opinion. People will classify what's 'good football' differently. There's definitely a reason so many believe the quality isn't great - is it just because we're watching generally quite boring football and that creates an illusion the quality is poor?

I personally think the quality is poor based on that I haven't been that impressed by anyone we've played bar Peterborough.

 

[MustardYellow]

The quality of football is pretty good in my opinion. What is different this season is that there aren’t two teams who are obviously much better than everyone else. Even Portsmouth are catchable for Bolton and Derby.

Now the quality of referees in League One. That is a different matter.

It's certainly interesting how we can all watch the same games and come to different conclusions. I think it just depends on what people as individuals watch football for and how they personally view/determine what 'good' football actually is.

I agree about the refs though... it's bad.

 

[Eric Blair]

It's certainly interesting how we can all watch the same games and come to different conclusions. I think it just depends on what people as individuals watch football for and how they personally view/determine what 'good' football actually is.

I agree about the refs though... it's bad.

Yep. That’s very true and also what you are used to perhaps.

Refs are absolutely shocking at this level. I still can’t get over Stockbridge at home v Wycombe.

 

[Osei Yaw]

I keep seeing "this is a poor league" as a re-occurring theme in many threads.

How has that conclusion been reached and how is this measured? Is this based on any empirical evidence and compared to previous League 1 seasons?

Just wondered how this has been established.

It could be that it looked like a harder league last season because we were utter shite for a lot of it, so the majority of teams we played looked better than us.