National News The Brexit Thread 🇬🇧🇪🇺

According to the BBC, "£160m worth of England's fishing quota is in the hands of vessels owned by companies based in Iceland, Spain and the Netherlands, according to BBC research.

That amounts to 130,000 tonnes of fish a year and 55% of the quota's annual value in 2019."

So who are we holding out for?
 
Foley said:
surely that is also true of the EU? Why would they bring down the whole deal over a fishing issue that is pretty irrelevant to a lot of EU countries?
Not only that but IF there is no deal , there will be no EU fishing in UK waters.
As usual there will need to be a sensible compromise on this but it appears that the French fishing industry has to be appeased as well as the UK fishing industry.
Click to expand...

To an extent, although the EU have a big problem on their hands if they suddenly lose access to British waters. They have more at stake.
They catch more than half a billion euros worth of fish there - lose access and a bunch of different countries, particularly the French and the Dutch, are suddenly fighting over insufficient fishing resources. They would either end up completely depleting European fish stocks or a lot of European fishermen would have to lose their jobs. And sorting that out would be a hell of a headache.

Meanwhile Britain couldn't fish its own territorial waters even close to capacity in 2021 if we wanted to - we don't have enough boats, and we don't have enough people who know how to fish! The only reason we care so much is Chest Thump, Chest Thump, Sovereignty, Ra ra ra.

(or maybe BoJo and co realize that British science and manufacturing is going to take such a beating when we're no longer part of the EU that a lot of people are going to have to find something else to do - and fishing could be it! We could become an Icelandic-style economy built on tourism and herring!)


It's why the negotiations are not actually a question of will European fisherman be able to fish British waters. Both sides agree that they will.
It's simply a question of how much they can catch and for how long. And it seems like the gap between the two sides is still pretty wide.
 
tonyw said:
To an extent, although the EU have a big problem on their hands if they suddenly lose access to British waters. They have more at stake.
They catch more than half a billion euros worth of fish there - lose access and a bunch of different countries, particularly the French and the Dutch, are suddenly fighting over insufficient fishing resources. They would either end up completely depleting European fish stocks or a lot of European fishermen would have to lose their jobs. And sorting that out would be a hell of a headache.

Meanwhile Britain couldn't fish its own territorial waters even close to capacity in 2021 if we wanted to - we don't have enough boats, and we don't have enough people who know how to fish! The only reason we care so much is Chest Thump, Chest Thump, Sovereignty, Ra ra ra.

(or maybe BoJo and co realize that British science and manufacturing is going to take such a beating when we're no longer part of the EU that a lot of people are going to have to find something else to do - and fishing could be it! We could become an Icelandic-style economy built on tourism and herring!)


It's why the negotiations are not actually a question of will European fisherman be able to fish British waters. Both sides agree that they will.
It's simply a question of how much they can catch and for how long. And it seems like the gap between the two sides is still pretty wide.
Click to expand...

A no deal Brexit dividend then for the fish for a while
 
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Ring any bells
 

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Marked Ox said:
www.bbc.co.uk

The Belgian 'hero' who invaded UK fishing waters

The story of Victor Depaepe, who tested fishing rights in UK waters granted by King Charles II.
www.bbc.co.uk

That getting sovereignty of our waters is looking a bit pointless/phyrric as it looks like a 50 boat fleet registered in Bruges will have access to British waters anyway.
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What's the point of giving us the full quota anyway?....

We'll only sell it off to the highest bidder as soon as we can as history shows: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52420116

Couldn't be arsed to use them in the 1990's when the going got tough, so sold them off....won't be arsed to use them in the 2020's when we've got no market to sell to.

The fish will be the real winners here. Marine conservation, not by design but by sheer pig-headed jingoistic, nationalistic tokenism - poetry! [emoji1787]
 
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Sheik djibouti said:
What's the point of giving us the full quota anyway?....

We'll only sell it off to the highest bidder as soon as we can as history shows: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52420116

Couldn't be arsed to use them in the 1990's when the going got tough, so sold them off....won't be arsed to use them in the 2020's when we've got not market to sell to.

The fish will be the real winners here. Marine conservation, not by design but by sheer pig-headed jingoistic, nationalistic tokenism - poetry! 🤣
Click to expand...

I'm on the side of the fish. :)
 
It is international law that coastal states retain certain rights over their territorial waters.
It applies to the water, seabed and air above and must allow innocent passage that is, peaceful transit not prejudicial to the good order or security of the coastal state—for merchant vessels of other nations.

The right of innocent passage does not apply to submerged submarines or to aircraft, nor does it include a right to fish.

All we want to do is control fishing rights in our waters on our terms, even if that is to contract them out to other nations.

The EU want us locked in for 8 years and we don`t want that.

Some kind of fudge of 3 years might be agreeable...... or not.
 
Essexyellows said:
It is international law that coastal states retain certain rights over their territorial waters.
It applies to the water, seabed and air above and must allow innocent passage that is, peaceful transit not prejudicial to the good order or security of the coastal state—for merchant vessels of other nations.

The right of innocent passage does not apply to submerged submarines or to aircraft, nor does it include a right to fish.

All we want to do is control fishing rights in our waters on our terms, even if that is to contract them out to other nations.

The EU want us locked in for 8 years and we don`t want that.

Some kind of fudge of 3 years might be agreeable...... or not.
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But you can have. What's your problem?
 
The fishing rights stuff is malarkey. For little Englanders, it's symbolic of 'sovereignty' whether it is actually important or not, whatever the practicalities and realities of the situation are and whatever we (as in the vast majority of inhabitants of this country) will lose as a result of it cocking up hopes of a deal. Of course, for others it is a means to an end - whether their reasons are xenophobic or they stand to make money - to make sure there is no deal. For details of the latter, just look at some of the people the government has given money to over the course of the pandemic - it's not what you can do, it's who you know, and that isn't going to anything other than more blatant over the new few years. Oven-ready Banana Republic, anyone?
 
Bit of a shame then that if "all we want to do is control fishing rights in our waters" that the Government shot themselves in the foot in their own consultation which closed last month and which was silent on changing the rules around vessel ownership. So whilst increasing the economic link requirements, like increase catch landed in England from 50% - 70% (albeit making them more flexible), foreign owned vessels will still be able to register under a UK flag provided they meet those criteria. It will benefit local communities (modestly) by shifting some jobs to the UK as more fish is landed here, but the profits will still go abroad. The UK government lost a legal battle in the 90's to prevent foreign owned vessels doing this and clearly have no appetite to re-visit it now.

So marginal gains in a (very) niche industry are still being used to potentially screw over billions of pounds worth of trade and the jobs that depend on it.

Yep....makes perfect sense to me:rolleyes:

Edit- here's the link: https://consult.defra.gov.uk/fleet-...cuments/201013 Economic link consultation.pdf
 
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Sheik djibouti said:
Bit of a shame then that if "all we want to do is control fishing rights in our waters" that the Government shot themselves in the foot in their own consultation which closed last month and which was silent on changing the rules around vessel ownership. So whilst increasing the economic link requirements, like increase catch landed in England from 50% - 70% (albeit making them more flexible), foreign owned vessels will still be able to register under a UK flag provided they meet those criteria. It will benefit local communities (modestly) by shifting some jobs to the UK as more fish is landed here, but the profits will still go abroad. The UK government lost a legal battle in the 90's to prevent foreign owned vessels doing this and clearly have no appetite to re-visit it now.

So marginal gains in a (very) niche industry are still being used to potentially screw over billions of pounds worth of trade and the jobs that depend on it.

Yep....makes perfect sense to me:rolleyes:

Edit- here's the link: https://consult.defra.gov.uk/fleet-management-team/fisheries-economic-link-licence-condition-in-engla/supporting_documents/201013 Economic link consultation.pdf
Click to expand...
That’s just like... your opinion, dude.
 
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