National News Sir Keir Starmer

[Marston Road yellow]

People are allowed to criticise Israel, but as with any ally country our government and politicians can't be seen making derogatory statements about it, hence why they're being suspended for saying 'f*****g Israel' and the like. I imagine the result would've been the same if it were said about any ally nation.

If we're really worried about topics/people that are untouchable then there are far more pressing matters than Israel.

How is that different from telling immigrants to f**k off?

Or suggesting that someone’s constituency was a “shithole”

Both of these came from Tory mouths in the recent past. One in parliament.

None of it is good but does anyone state that because most of the inhabitants of said constituency are British that he’s being anti British? They will never be referred to as anything other than constituents.

Or that if the majority of immigrants were Muslim that he was being anti Muslim? They will never be referred to as anything other than immigrants

No this is the preserve of Israel as a state and it’s not acceptable to say that the politician in this case is anti Semitic, anti zionist, that he hates the Jews, that he has criticised anything other than Israel the country. And I believe in this context particularly its actions in a war.

I’d love to see your list of topics and people that are untouchable.

 

[MustardYellow]

How is that different from telling immigrants to f**k off?

Or suggesting that someone’s constituency was a “shithole”

Both of these came from Tory mouths in the recent past. One in parliament.

None of it is good but does anyone state that because most of the inhabitants of said constituency are British that he’s being anti British? They will never be referred to as anything other than constituents.

Or that if the majority of immigrants were Muslim that he was being anti Muslim? They will never be referred to as anything other than immigrants

No this is the preserve of Israel as a state and it’s not acceptable to say that the politician in this case is anti Semitic, anti zionist, that he hates the Jews, that he has criticised anything other than Israel the country. And I believe in this context particularly its actions in a war.

I’d love to see your list of topics and people that are untouchable.

Because Israel may act on such comments... with the greatest of respect, what are immigrants or resident's of a constituency going to do? Or would they actually care? It's about the potential consequence of what's been said - there's very little consequence to saying those things compared to slagging off an allied nation, particularly in their current situation. If a politician was caught slagging off/being rude about Joe Biden for example, you'd probably get the same result. It just isn't a good look on an international stage rather than a national/local one.

Israel are by no means beyond criticism. There's literally been marches most weekends involving hundreds of thousands of people against Israel - the idea you can't say anything about it is nonsense.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

Because Israel may act on such comments... with the greatest of respect, what are immigrants or resident's of a constituency going to do? Or would they actually care? It's about the potential consequence of what's been said - there's very little consequence to saying those things compared to slagging off an allied nation, particularly in their current situation. If a politician was caught slagging off/being rude about Joe Biden for example, you'd probably get the same result. It just isn't a good look on an international stage rather than a national/local one.

Israel are by no means beyond criticism. There's literally been marches most weekends involving hundreds of thousands of people against Israel - the idea you can't say anything about it is nonsense.

How?

And I'm really not sure Biden would be all that bothered TBF, given the pelters coming his way on a regular basis. It kind of comes with the territory of believing inthe value of democracy and free speech I guess. Now, if it were the thin-skinned Orange dipshit . . . that's a different matter. He'd definitely get a monk-on.

 

[MustardYellow]

How?

And I'm really not sure Biden would be all that bothered TBF, given the pelters coming his way on a regular basis. It kind of comes with the territory of believing inthe value of democracy and free speech I guess. Now, if it were the thin-skinned Orange dipshit . . . that's a different matter. He'd definitely get a monk-on.

If Israel feel slighted by comments coming from our government/politicians, they could take political action (suspend trade etc). However unlikely that may be, it's a lot easier to just avoid any problem altogether by removing the politicians making such comments.

There's a difference between 'normal' people saying these things and the politicians of your supposed allies saying them.

EDIT: Just reading a bit more about it, apparently Azhar Ali said Israel willingly allowed 7th October to happen. Whatever your personal opinion on that, you can't be having parliamentary candidates saying things like that.

 

[Marston Road yellow]

Because Israel may act on such comments... with the greatest of respect, what are immigrants or resident's of a constituency going to do? Or would they actually care? It's about the potential consequence of what's been said - there's very little consequence to saying those things compared to slagging off an allied nation, particularly in their current situation. If a politician was caught slagging off/being rude about Joe Biden for example, you'd probably get the same result. It just isn't a good look on an international stage rather than a national/local one.

Israel are by no means beyond criticism. There's literally been marches most weekends involving hundreds of thousands of people against Israel - the idea you can't say anything about it is nonsense.

Do you seriously think Israel gives a monkeys about what an opposition MP has said or not about Israel?

It has nothing to do with Israel itself but to do with the UK press.

Is he an anti semite? On this comment who knows?

Could be but he’s loosing the whip because the press want to paint the Labour Party as an antisemitic party, based on someone saying “f*****g Israel”


Almost certainly.

 

[Scotchegg]

If Israel feel slighted by comments coming from our government/politicians, they could take political action (suspend trade etc). However unlikely that may be, it's a lot easier to just avoid any problem altogether by removing the politicians making such comments.

There's a difference between 'normal' people saying these things and the politicians of your supposed allies saying them.

EDIT: Just reading a bit more about it, apparently Azhar Ali said Israel willingly allowed 7th October to happen. Whatever your personal opinion on that, you can't be having parliamentary candidates saying things like that.

There is growing criticism in Israel for those at the top ignoring information that said an attack was imminent. There were numerous examples of security measures failing on 7th October and these undoubtedly resulted in hundreds more innocent Israelis being killed.

There is of course a difference between saying that Israel were badly prepared and failed to act in a way that protected their citizens, and saying that they deliberately allowed this to happen. But there are legitimate questions regarding the events that led up to 7th October as well as the response since.

None of this excuses the actions of Hamas. They were, and remain, a barbaric organisation intent on the death of those who oppose them.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

If Israel feel slighted by comments coming from our government/politicians, they could take political action (suspend trade etc). However unlikely that may be, it's a lot easier to just avoid any problem altogether by removing the politicians making such comments.

There's a difference between 'normal' people saying these things and the politicians of your supposed allies saying them.

EDIT: Just reading a bit more about it, apparently Azhar Ali said Israel willingly allowed 7th October to happen. Whatever your personal opinion on that, you can't be having parliamentary candidates saying things like that.

Agree that it is a pretty abhorrent conspiracy theory to be peddalling and there can be no excuse for it.

EDIT: I also agree that questions of Israels multiple security lapses and failure to take intel seriously are now being asked and that they are indeed legitimate questions, but that is miles away from Israel being party to it and encouraging the slaughter of their own citizens.

I could see Israel doing something unilateral if those were views expressed on behalf of a state, but not based on the out of touch and out of kilter views of some political wannabee. I do however agree that anyone with the ambition to form the next UK Government has to immediately distance themselves from such views, which is precisely what the Labour Party have done. That of course won't stop the majority of UK media outlets from continuing to stir the pot,given that they have a particular political axe to grind.

 

[MustardYellow]

There is growing criticism in Israel for those at the top ignoring information that said an attack was imminent. There were numerous examples of security measures failing on 7th October and these undoubtedly resulted in hundreds more innocent Israelis being killed.

There is of course a difference between saying that Israel were badly prepared and failed to act in a way that protected their citizens, and saying that they deliberately allowed this to happen. But there are legitimate questions regarding the events that led up to 7th October as well as the response since.

None of this excuses the actions of Hamas. They were, and remain, a barbaric organisation intent on the death of those who oppose them.

Of course, and all that may be true, but it isn't for our parliamentary candidates to be making such judgments.

 

[Scotchegg]

Of course, and all that may be true, but it isn't for our parliamentary candidates to be making such judgments.

Is it for parliamentary candidates to talk about Russia/Ukraine? Or issues in Yemen? Or any other global issues?

This guy was using hateful language and making unfounded accusations, and this has thankfully been addressed. But the idea that we can talk about anywhere but Israel, and any criticism of the Israeli leadership becomes automatically antisemitic, seems bizarre in the extreme.

 

[MustardYellow]

Is it for parliamentary candidates to talk about Russia/Ukraine? Or issues in Yemen? Or any other global issues?

This guy was using hateful language and making unfounded accusations, and this has thankfully been addressed. But the idea that we can talk about anywhere but Israel, and any criticism of the Israeli leadership becomes automatically antisemitic, seems bizarre in the extreme.

But who's saying we can't talk about Israel? As you've acknowledged, he was sanctioned for making unfounded accusations - not just talking about Israel. As I said earlier, we've seen almost weekly anti-Israel marches in which hundreds of thousands have participated who haven't been blanket labelled antisemitic. We have however seen genuine antisemitism and hateful actions by a worrying amount of individuals on said marches.

And no, it isn't for parliamentary candidates to speculate about such serious and unfounded claims, particularly when it involves an ally.

 

[Scotchegg]

And no, it isn't for parliamentary candidates to speculate about such serious and unfounded claims, particularly when it involves an ally.

I completely disagree. Being an ally doesn't mean that you can not question their actions. In fact, even more reason to do so!

 

[MustardYellow]

I completely disagree. Being an ally doesn't mean that you can not question their actions. In fact, even more reason to do so!

But we don't know if they were Israel's actions, which is the whole point. He publicly made a statement and presented it as fact, when it's actually just unfounded speculation.

 

[Scotchegg]

But we don't know if they were Israel's actions, which is the whole point. He publicly made a statement and presented it as fact, when it's actually just unfounded speculation.

I've said that his words were unacceptable, and saying that Israel deliberately allowed these events to unfold is unfounded speculation.

But your point is that it is not the position of any political candidate to question the actions of another ally state. And that is where I fundamentally disagree.

 

[SteMerritt]

The economy has never crashed . We have not been in recession for many years.

This came through today, we went into recession at the end of 2023...

Loading...

www.bbc.co.uk

It is all technicalities though, we went into 'recession' despite the economy growing over 12 months. Germany didn't go into recession despite theirs shrinking over the same time period.

 

[Essexyellows]

This came through today, we went into recession at the end of 2023...

Loading...

www.bbc.co.uk

It is all technicalities though, we went into 'recession' despite the economy growing over 12 months. Germany didn't go into recession despite theirs shrinking over the same time period.

Because Spain & Italy both grew enough to "balance the books".

Anyway its all just numbers on ..............

 

[PottersRightBoot]

Agree, there are a lot of technicalities here, but one thing is for sure, the economy has never ‘crashed’.

Starmer in danger of disappearing up his own fundament this week. He should have binned off Azhar Ali immediately.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

Agree, there are a lot of technicalities here, but one thing is for sure, the economy has never ‘crashed’.

Starmer in danger of disappearing up his own fundament this week. He should have binned off Azhar Ali immediately.

Agreed. The government ought to call a General Election immediately. It's the best chance they'll have in the next 11 months.

 

[PottersRightBoot]

Agreed. The government ought to call a General Election immediately. It's the best chance they'll have in the next 11 months.

Disagree. It will keep getting worse for old flip flop.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

Disagree. It will keep getting worse for old flip flop.

And it certainly won't be getting any better for fishi Rishi and his rag tag bunch of loons either

 

[Sheik djibouti]

Incidentally, how are things going in Wellingborough for Rishi and Co?

It's great to see the new look Conservative Party distancing themselves from all those allegations of cronyism by putting forward a candidate who #checks notes# . .. is the girlfriend of the disgraced sitting MP