Current Player #9 Mark Harris

Older Shotts said:
It'll be interesting to see what DB does up front on Saturday - rest Harris and give someone else a try, or play him and hope he can score against a lower division side...?
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We tried that in the first round didn't we...
 
Older Shotts said:
Agree. Although we dont really have any strikers at the club.. at least noone you can rely on to score.
Maybe give Sonny a runout or send him back to Leeds.
Bodin is the "best" option, but even he fluffed a good chance last night, failing to make proper contact where you'd expect someone of his ability and experience to bury it.
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Send him back
 
MustardYellow said:
I'm baffled as to how people can think Harris performed well last night.

All too often he isn't an option. A few times last night we had the opportunity to break away or counter and he didn't run in behind, or drop back to receive the ball. He's never in the box when he should be - he just doesn't seem to read the game.

He definitely isn't a striker. Maybe try him on the wing and give someone else a go upfront?
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I suppose it depends on how you judge him.

I've given up on judging him as a striker who I expect to be scoring goals every other game, because it just isn't him. There was an opportunity in the first half when Stevens lofted a cross over, Bodin couldn't quite make it and Harris was just a yard off it. It's the sort of opportunity that you expect a goal scorer to be there for, but that's just not Harris. We've seen that time and time again from him. That is not to say that we shouldn't expect someone there who can do that, or that Harris shouldn't be getting coached into how to get into those positions, it's more a point about how it just isn't natural to him and it never has been. There is nothing in his career to date that screams 'goal scorer'.

As a striker, I think he actually does his best work when we don't have possession. He leads the press very well and he's done this consistently well throughout the entire season. He is very good at getting the opposition to turn round and play a safer pass, or knock one into touch. Again, I'm not saying that should be the limit of our ambitions for a striker, but it's worth calling it out because I don't think there is anyone better in the current set up than him at it, and it is an important part of how we play.

We quite clearly need more options up there as it doesn't look like Perkins is going to work out and GO'D needs a loan for his own development, but if you base his performances on what he offers then I think he was decent last night. Santos is a brute but Toal and Jones are also decent. They're the back 3 for a team at the top of the league for a reason and it's no easy task as a lone striker. But he kept moving them about and creating space for the likes of Mills to get in down the right hand side.

A goal scorer and another option in centre midfield would be my 2 priorities for the January window.
 
Osei Yaw said:
I suppose it depends on how you judge him.

I've given up on judging him as a striker who I expect to be scoring goals every other game, because it just isn't him. There was an opportunity in the first half when Stevens lofted a cross over, Bodin couldn't quite make it and Harris was just a yard off it. It's the sort of opportunity that you expect a goal scorer to be there for, but that's just not Harris. We've seen that time and time again from him. That is not to say that we shouldn't expect someone there who can do that, or that Harris shouldn't be getting coached into how to get into those positions, it's more a point about how it just isn't natural to him and it never has been. There is nothing in his career to date that screams 'goal scorer'.

As a striker, I think he actually does his best work when we don't have possession. He leads the press very well and he's done this consistently well throughout the entire season. He is very good at getting the opposition to turn round and play a safer pass, or knock one into touch. Again, I'm not saying that should be the limit of our ambitions for a striker, but it's worth calling it out because I don't think there is anyone better in the current set up than him at it, and it is an important part of how we play.

We quite clearly need more options up there as it doesn't look like Perkins is going to work out and GO'D needs a loan for his own development, but if you base his performances on what he offers then I think he was decent last night. Santos is a brute but Toal and Jones are also decent. They're the back 3 for a team at the top of the league for a reason and it's no easy task as a lone striker. But he kept moving them about and creating space for the likes of Mills to get in down the right hand side.

A goal scorer and another option in centre midfield would be my 2 priorities for the January window.
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I seem to disagree with most people there... I don't think he's a great presser at all. On numerous occasions last night their centre half's had the ball and it was Bodin or one of the midfielders pressing while Harris did a whole lot of nothing (didn't join the press, didn't drop back to cover the pressers position). He's good at 'pretending' to press - just jogging side to side along their backline isn't good pressing.

To me, he just never seems in the game. Granted, the service into him isn't always great, but when a ball is put in behind or there's a good cross into the box he's just never there. I've tried to be patient with him but I'm at a point where I'm just not sure what he can offer to the team, or if what he can offer is good enough to warrant starting over others. I always ask myself 'can another player do that?' when I think about a players value to the team, and I have no doubt that if you started any of our wingers upfront they'd do everything Harris does, potentially better.

I just think he's a very average player.
 
MustardYellow said:
I seem to disagree with most people there... I don't think he's a great presser at all. On numerous occasions last night their centre half's had the ball and it was Bodin or one of the midfielders pressing while Harris did a whole lot of nothing (didn't join the press, didn't drop back to cover the pressers position). He's good at 'pretending' to press - just jogging side to side along their backline isn't good pressing.

To me, he just never seems in the game. Granted, the service into him isn't always great, but when a ball is put in behind or there's a good cross into the box he's just never there. I've tried to be patient with him but I'm at a point where I'm just not sure what he can offer to the team, or if what he can offer is good enough to warrant starting over others. I always ask myself 'can another player do that?' when I think about a players value to the team, and I have no doubt that if you started any of our wingers upfront they'd do everything Harris does, potentially better.

I just think he's a very average player.
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His pressing last night was excellent. It isn't all about blinding charging down every defender as quick as you can..

We quite clearly have a 'trigger point' for the press, which is when it gets to the fullbacks. We got forward and held position until the ball was forced into these areas.

Harris clearly isn't a goal scorer, but he's quickly becoming the scapegoat. At one point last night the ball was played behind him and people around me were moaning that he didn't magically detach his leg and control it like some mix of Reed Richards and Messi.

Ideally we can find a similar player who is more clinical to play through the middle, and try him out wide. Although, if a player has all his good attributes plus finishing, he'll cost a fair amount!
 
Personally, I think he is technically a decent footballer. He isn't a striker though - 17 goals in 146 league games tells you that. I think that the vast majority accept that now - and the few that think he will 'come good' in the goal scoring department (after a career of not being a goal scorer) are away with the fairies.

But given that he isn't a goal scoring striker, and if a non goal scoring striker is probably not an actual position, what is his position in the team? He isn't a starting first choice winger on either side (Edwards, Browne, Mills and maybe more are ahead of him) and as far as I can see he isn't a no 10 (although maybe if we had a goal scoring striker he would be?).

I think he does close down defences quite well, can control a ball and has a turn of speed. I'm just not sure that's enough, unfortunately. Before January comes (and hopefully a new striker with it), we've got two cup games followed by six league games. It will be interesting to see how DB juggles the line up to take us through that time.
 
Exactly as above : when BB is good he is very skilful when he's not so ouch! Sparky can finish but he is maybe trying to make perfect opportunity after all these are Div 3 players and whatever super skill we get to see is a bonus and a quantity we can expect as an uograde on Lg 2
 
Cookie said:
His pressing last night was excellent. It isn't all about blinding charging down every defender as quick as you can..

We quite clearly have a 'trigger point' for the press, which is when it gets to the fullbacks. We got forward and held position until the ball was forced into these areas.

Harris clearly isn't a goal scorer, but he's quickly becoming the scapegoat. At one point last night the ball was played behind him and people around me were moaning that he didn't magically detach his leg and control it like some mix of Reed Richards and Messi.

Ideally we can find a similar player who is more clinical to play through the middle, and try him out wide. Although, if a player has all his good attributes plus finishing, he'll cost a fair amount!
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I'm happy to be proven wrong, but I can't think of a single moment where he was individually brilliant at pressing last night?

I know the exact moment you're talking about. It was played behind him by Bodin (I think) because Harris didn't do anything - he wasn't making a run in behind so the ball couldn't be played beyond, and he didn't drop back to receive it. Moments like that happen all too often. I just don't get him, to be honest!
 
MustardYellow said:
I seem to disagree with most people there... I don't think he's a great presser at all. On numerous occasions last night their centre half's had the ball and it was Bodin or one of the midfielders pressing while Harris did a whole lot of nothing (didn't join the press, didn't drop back to cover the pressers position). He's good at 'pretending' to press - just jogging side to side along their backline isn't good pressing.

To me, he just never seems in the game. Granted, the service into him isn't always great, but when a ball is put in behind or there's a good cross into the box he's just never there. I've tried to be patient with him but I'm at a point where I'm just not sure what he can offer to the team, or if what he can offer is good enough to warrant starting over others. I always ask myself 'can another player do that?' when I think about a players value to the team, and I have no doubt that if you started any of our wingers upfront they'd do everything Harris does, potentially better.

I just think he's a very average player.
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Here's one example from last night of what I think he does well.

Near the end of the first half, Bolton got a corner. We defended it but they recycled it and sent another ball in. Harris got his head on it and cleared:

1701260040176.png


5 seconds later he is out leading the press:

1701260115436.png


This helps push Bolton back. Harris continues to follow the ball out but keeps a distance. As @Cookie says, pressing isn't just about charging around.

Harris is deliberately taking up a position to try and cut an option out to their 19 (Maghoma):


1701260451035.png


As a result, the Bolton player in possession takes the option to play a 1-2 with Santos, then when he receives the ball back, Harris goes after him and he ends up turning round and playing it back to the keeper:

1701260651575.png

It's not revolutionary but it is good, disciplined stuff, and the rest of the team all know their roles as well. This is the sort of stuff that Harris does really well for the team and he does it for the entire time he is on the pitch. The second image shows the time on the clock as 41:19 and the last image is 41:32. It's only 13 seconds but it's a transition where Bolton have been forced to go backwards. Not only does this mean the ball is going away from our goal but it also means the defence can get themselves organised again, rather than fend off another ball into the box.
 
MustardYellow said:
I'm happy to be proven wrong, but I can't think of a single moment where he was individually brilliant at pressing last night?

I know the exact moment you're talking about. It was played behind him by Bodin (I think) because Harris didn't do anything - he wasn't making a run in behind so the ball couldn't be played beyond, and he didn't drop back to receive it. Moments like that happen all too often. I just don't get him, to be honest!
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Being individually brilliant at pressing is different to be pressing excellently, though.. I'm probably being really pedantic, but the whole point of the press is to work together as a team. I think as a team we did that very well, therefore they were all excellent.

I personally think his movement is very good. In fact, I'd say he has pretty much every attribute that you'd look for except the main one - composure in front of goal (admittedly a pretty big one). I actually think he'd be a great player in any of the 3 positions behind the main striker, or in a front 2.

Unfortunately, he's our only option up front because of what he does bring to the table. A more natural goal scorer is a must in January.
 
MustardYellow said:
Worth maybe even giving Woltman a go?
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What makes you suggest that?
He couldn't even get in for the game against Chelsea U21(not sure if he was injured), and seems to be below Perkins in the pecking order.
I have only seen Woltman once but I am genuinely interested in why you think Woltman is better than those getting a chance?
 
I find it tough to be critical of Harris.

When he came in, it's clear that it was a specific role in mind. His asset is running behind defenders, running on to balls, stretching defences - which, with Rodrigues playing #10 and his frequency of through balls is a decent plan. The obvious issue being, when teams sit in a low block and prevent that space...like Cheltenham/Cambridge etc!

Harris will get flogged much like Taylor was before him because we don't have an serious competition to share the minutes. I imagine Perkins will return to Leeds in January, GOD will keep picking up 10mins here and there and hopefully we will find someone that will be of a different profile to help Harris.

Just compare our front line with Bolton last night - Charles, Bovarsson, Nlundulu, Adeboyejo. All with proven league experience and of differing profiles.
 
I thought he looked most comfortable when he got the ball on the right wing and sprinted away from their defender towards the byline before putting in a cross. He's more of a winger than a striker.
 
Cookie said:
I personally think his movement is very good. In fact, I'd say he has pretty much every attribute that you'd look for except the main one - composure in front of goal (admittedly a pretty big one). I actually think he'd be a great player in any of the 3 positions behind the main striker, or in a front 2.
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His movement is very good when we have the ball in midfield - he's good at running the channels, and generally being on the defenders' shoulder.
His movement in the box, however, lacks a striker's instinct. He doesn't have the knack for finding space, and he doesn't anticipate like a natural striker would - it's been mentioned several times already, but the gorgeous cross that Stevens put in late in the first half that just cleared Bodin......you know that a peak Matty Taylor would be anticipating that it would drop and getting on the end of it. Harris hesitated and the chance was gone.

ZeroTheHero said:
But given that he isn't a goal scoring striker, and if a non goal scoring striker is probably not an actual position, what is his position in the team? He isn't a starting first choice winger on either side (Edwards, Browne, Mills and maybe more are ahead of him) and as far as I can see he isn't a no 10 (although maybe if we had a goal scoring striker he would be?).
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Browne will get injured again at some point, and Edwards has never played a full season before. I actually think Harris might be a better RW than Mills.....certainly more consistent.
Whilst Harris might not be an automatic starter on the wings, I think he'll get plenty of game time there once we've signed a striker.
 
Have seen Harris a few times, before coming to us.
Played right side, as glimpsed last night. Always grafted, prepared to out pace a defender caused trouble when open space was infront of him
In contrast to Mills who’ll attack the space if it’s free and open, but hesitant when in contention for that space
Also attacked the box well supporting striker when balls crossed from opposite side. And coming onto the ball.
 
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