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[bazzer9461]

I agree about the US pull out. Doesn't change that Raab demonstrated incompetence in his actions showing he isn't up to the job. Of course being a modern politician, he won't resign.

Reading the Mirror and Starmers comment that Boris bears a heavy responsibility I think the whole of Parliament should. What they want is us Britain to stay there and help but if as the Mirror is reporting regular bearings and rapes occurring how would the British forces cope? I doubt whether the Taliban would stand back and let the troops do their thing.

 

[MalaysiaYellow]

So you don’t read it then? Just speculating?

Unfortunately there is so many gullible people it's hard to ignore its inaccuracies as it gets republished over different platforms, etc

Being an exile can give you more of a neutral view of a country's media.

 

[Marked Ox]

Reading the Mirror and Starmers comment that Boris bears a heavy responsibility I think the whole of Parliament should. What they want is us Britain to stay there and help but if as the Mirror is reporting regular bearings and rapes occurring how would the British forces cope? I doubt whether the Taliban would stand back and let the troops do their thing.

The problem of withdrawal etc started way back, but Raab should have been at the heart of planning and execution of the evacuation. He hasn't been as demonstrated by refusing to make that phone call and delegating it to a junior staffer.

 

[m]

Yes please. Having seen what happened when Johnson tried to use a mop I’m very much up for handing him a machine gun.

"And the..aaaah, the bullets, the bullets, they aaahhh...they ahhhh, the bullets, they come out of here, aaaaah, when I, when I, when I squeeze h[KABOOM!!]"

 

[bazzer9461]

The problem of withdrawal etc started way back, but Raab should have been at the heart of planning and execution of the evacuation. He hasn't been as demonstrated by refusing to make that phone call and delegating it to a junior staffer.

Yes it should have started way back but listening to our MP’s saying there is blood on our hands and we should stay there, the problem with that is the death of British troops would be far greater than what it is now. The Russians couldn’t do it and the west couldn’t do it. I think Afghanistan will be what it is just hope the right evacuation takes place.

 

[Essexyellows]

As it currently stands the Taliban are allowing folk to go to the airport if they have the right paperwork.
Various embassies are providing said paperwork, including ours.
And flights are landing in the UK as part of the ongoing process.

With the best will in the world you can`t just pick up tens of thousands of people in one go and magic them out of a country.

I will also bet that in a fortnight or in a month's time you will see the "I`ve been deserted by The Government in a Taliban hellhole" headline because some individuals seem to think it's a taxi service to be used when they feel like it.

 

[Marked Ox]

As it currently stands the Taliban are allowing folk to go to the airport if they have the right paperwork.
Various embassies are providing said paperwork, including ours.
And flights are landing in the UK as part of the ongoing process.

With the best will in the world you can`t just pick up tens of thousands of people in one go and magic them out of a country.

I will also bet that in a fortnight or in a month's time you will see the "I`ve been deserted by The Government in a Taliban hellhole" headline because some individuals seem to think it's a taxi service to be used when they feel like it.

Is this meant to be defending Raab? (Genuine question)

 

[Marked Ox]

Yes it should have started way back but listening to our MP’s saying there is blood on our hands and we should stay there, the problem with that is the death of British troops would be far greater than what it is now. The Russians couldn’t do it and the west couldn’t do it. I think Afghanistan will be what it is just hope the right evacuation takes place.

It depends how or if we had done withdrawal way back or built another alliance. The Afghan Army would have remained the boots on the ground, we+others would have been support/training/special ops/air cover etc. The manner of the withdrawal by this Alliance (all of them) leaves a lot to be desired as it signposted everything for the Taliban and imo, it is the politicians who wanted it, not the military from what I read.

 

[QR]

There is only so much you can do "remotely"..... unless you want Johnson & Raab on the gate of Kabul Airport with guns?

Then they`ll get slated for "not sorting out XYZ at home".

End of the day they, just like you & I, are doing their bit and we get annual leave.

There's even less if you 'refuse to be contacted'.

Dominic Raab ‘refused to be contacted’ in days before Afghanistan fell

Calls for foreign secretary to quit after he passed crucial call to junior minister while on holiday

www.theguardian.com

 

[bazzer9461]

It depends how or if we had done withdrawal way back or built another alliance. The Afghan Army would have remained the boots on the ground, we+others would have been support/training/special ops/air cover etc. The manner of the withdrawal by this Alliance (all of them) leaves a lot to be desired as it signposted everything for the Taliban and imo, it is the politicians who wanted it, not the military from what I read.

I agree the Afghan army should be the boots on the ground in Afghanistan and they have been trained to deal with the Taliban but as has been reported the army have just been laying their arms down and allowing the Taliban to take control.
Yes it is the politicians that wanted out but that is what the alliance wanted not just Britain, but as I said previously the British troops would not have had the numbers to deal with the Taliban.
But if it’s true what has been reported that the Taliban are granting people safe passage with the correct paperwork then we are heading in the right correction.

 

[Marked Ox]

I agree the Afghan army should be the boots on the ground in Afghanistan and they have been trained to deal with the Taliban but as has been reported the army have just been laying their arms down and allowing the Taliban to take control.
Yes it is the politicians that wanted out but that is what the alliance wanted not just Britain, but as I said previously the British troops would not have had the numbers to deal with the Taliban.
But if it’s true what has been reported that the Taliban are granting people safe passage with the correct paperwork then we are heading in the right correction.

The UN via intelligence reports are suggesting the Taliban are already looking for people who worked for the Govt, ANA, ANP etc. If true, that promise lasted about 5 mins.

The ANA was trained to fight like the US Army and operate using air support which was withdrawn meant they were utterly undermined. The ANA got shafted as they should have been trained as an Afghan style Army along the lines of the Taliban which could operate independently without air support. Air support then becomes a rather good bonus.

Whilst, on our own I agree but we could have tried to form a new alliance with other countries then we could have had the numbers.

 

[Essexyellows]

Even the people who were there were "caught out".

"Ms Assad, a Labour councillor in Harrow, north-west London - who is believed to be the first person of Afghan origin to be elected to public office in the UK - thought her family were being "sensational".
"I was of the belief that the Taliban could not take Kabul and the government would not fall," she told Radio 5 Live's Colin Murray.
But she acknowledged that "everything completely changed" and on 14 August the militants gathered on the outskirts of the Afghan capital."

Afghanistan evacuations: Woman on trip back to Kabul describes fleeing city

A councillor who was visiting family in the country she had left aged three tells of her evacuation.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Essexyellows]

There's even less if you 'refuse to be contacted'.

Dominic Raab ‘refused to be contacted’ in days before Afghanistan fell

Calls for foreign secretary to quit after he passed crucial call to junior minister while on holiday

www.theguardian.com

Delegation is a key tool for leaders..... the "office junior" Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park hardly sounds like a YTS employee.

 

[Marked Ox]

Delegation is a key tool for leaders..... the "office junior" Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park hardly sounds like a YTS employee.

His officials were telling Raab, he had to make the call for it to have a chance and they would know what they are talking about. It is about respect for your opposite Foreign Minister, somebody I have no doubt he'd have talked to previously. Why wouldn't you make a phone call if it could save lives?

 

[bazzer9461]

The UN via intelligence reports are suggesting the Taliban are already looking for people who worked for the Govt, ANA, ANP etc. If true, that promise lasted about 5 mins.

The ANA was trained to fight like the US Army and operate using air support which was withdrawn meant they were utterly undermined. The ANA got shafted as they should have been trained as an Afghan style Army along the lines of the Taliban which could operate independently without air support. Air support then becomes a rather good bonus.

Whilst, on our own I agree but we could have tried to form a new alliance with other countries then we could have had the numbers.

The problem is what other countries could we have formed an alliance with?
As regards your first paragraph I agree they are looking for those that helped the alliance and yes it was a false promise by the Taliban.

 

[SteMerritt]

Delegation is a key tool for leaders..... the "office junior" Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park hardly sounds like a YTS employee.

Don't mistake fancy titles for relevant experience and knowledge.

(no, I've no idea who he is, or his qualifications, just saying...)

 

[Essexyellows]

His officials were telling Raab, he had to make the call for it to have a chance and they would know what they are talking about. It is about respect for your opposite Foreign Minister, somebody I have no doubt he'd have talked to previously. Why wouldn't you make a phone call if it could save lives?

Pretty simple if you think about it.
There was probably more to do than 1 person could do, irrespective of whom.
Therefore you work as a team to achieve the required result.
Has "it" actually "cost lives"?
More to the point would Raab`s intervention have prevented that?
Both are incredibly unlikely.

Don't mistake fancy titles for relevant experience and knowledge.

(no, I've no idea who he is, or his qualifications, just saying...)

Lord Goldsmith

Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park was the Minister for Overseas Territories, Commonwealth, Energy, Climate and Environment at the Foreign, Commonwealth & Development Office (FCDO) from October 2022 to June 2023. He was previously Minister for Asia, Energy, Climate and Environment at the FCDO from...

www.gov.uk

 

[dannyc]

Whatever one's view on how many Afghans should be accepted by the UK - and whether they are truly refugees or not - the notion that we shouldn't take any because we're already full / there are no houses / there are no jobs shows a distinct lack of knowledge about the UK's resources and abilities.

I'd treat one poster's idea that they should go to Wales or Scotland because there's more room there with the disdain it deserves. These debates do tend to bring out the hard of thinking.

Any Afghan whose life is in danger in that country because of the service they gave the UK during what turned out to be a virtually pointless war needs to be helped.

why do you have issue with that for they have more space in them areas compared to england seriously grow up .

 

[Marked Ox]

Pretty simple if you think about it.
There was probably more to do than 1 person could do, irrespective of whom.
Therefore you work as a team to achieve the required result.
Has "it" actually "cost lives"?
More to the point would Raab`s intervention have prevented that?
Both are incredibly unlikely.

Lord Goldsmith

Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park was the Minister for Overseas Territories, Commonwealth, Energy, Climate and Environment at the Foreign, Commonwealth & Development Office (FCDO) from October 2022 to June 2023. He was previously Minister for Asia, Energy, Climate and Environment at the FCDO from...

www.gov.uk

The Foreign Office officials thought it would make a difference and still it was just a phone call but can't have his holiday disturbed....

And ultimately, Raab would make the decisions as that is his job which he clearly couldn't be bothered to do. I don't know why Matt Hancock bothered with Covid, after all on the logic you are using, he needn't have bothered. Leadership is part of his job for things like this and he showed none and yes he will still have relied on his team as well.

We never know if Raab's intervention would have helped as he didn't bother even with the risk to others lives.

 

[Pete Burrett]

why do you have issue with that for they have more space in them areas compared to england seriously grow up .

Fair enough Danny. So what exactly do you suggest? The highland areas north of Glasgow-Edinburgh have thousands of square miles with no-one in them. There are also no houses or jobs or shops or transport links. How would you plan the distribution of the incomers?