Chairman Winding up order served by Kassam

Banbury2018 said:
They said it was issued in error as payment received as another poster has said . No I don’t have time to provide evidence by trawling this forum amongst other things as I have just finished work and am going to spend some quality time at home with my family and doing some DIY. This is my final post about this WUP
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Hearsay over hard evidence, I like the cut of your jib.
 
myles said:
Yes we do. There is the charge held by DE which is still registered at Companies House.



Let's do away with this "raised in error" nonsense. According to Banbury2018 the petition was issued on 16th March but the bill had been paid on 15th March. Leaving aside the obvious question of how he knows the dates so precisely, it's a bit naive to think that the process of HMRC drafting a petition and going to court to get it issued takes a matter of moments. I'm sure they would've spent a number of days trying to get this sorted before resorting to legal action. Trying to dismiss this as an "error" is simply ridiculous.

Administration may not be imminent, but three winding up petitions, and an attempt at a fourth, in a twelve month period is hardly indicative of a stable business with a healthy cash flow is it?! That suggests administration is more likely than not.


Was there a credible alternative in place when fans stormed the boardroom to force Kassam out? I don't believe there was. There will always be parties willing and able to buy a football club. Surely it's more irresponsible to sit and twiddle your thumbs as the club lurches from one crisis to another?

Frankly, there are a number of people, including yourself, who didn't heed the warnings that were given, probably because you didn't like those who were giving the warnings. To cling on to some vague notion that ST will see us right in the end, or that Thohir will come in post-April to save us is complacent in the extreme when seen in the context of all that has gone before, both in the last 12 months, and under ST's reign at Reading. "I told you so" doesn't really help anyone, but having read back some of the responses to my initial warnings about ST, myself and a few others could rightly demand a few apologies from those who seemed keen to usher ST in.

The time for OxVox to ask questions and patiently wait for answers has long since passed. The time for action and protest is NOW, before the next winding up petition comes along which may not get paid!
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Late payments are bad, but if Tiger walks we end up with no payments and that guarantees administration and the likely demise of our club. Whatever the emotions, and you do love to throw in the "I told you so", the only debt that we know of is the one owed to DE that we knew of from the offset and payments have been made within agreed time frames. 2, 4, 24 winding up petitions, all payments were then made. Not the signs of a professional business, but a huge step away from the administration we are being told is imminent. As for the "storming the boardroom", we were about to drop out of the league. It was felt that things could not get any worse and we had nothing else to lose. We are a long way from that position right now no matter how frustrating the situation is on and off the pitch.
 
Scotchegg said:
Late payments are bad, but if Tiger walks we end up with no payments and that guarantees administration and the likely demise of our club. Whatever the emotions, and you do love to throw in the "I told you so", the only debt that we know of is the one owed to DE that we knew of from the offset and payments have been made within agreed time frames. 2, 4, 24 winding up petitions, all payments were then made. Not the signs of a professional business, but a huge step away from the administration we are being told is imminent. As for the "storming the boardroom", we were about to drop out of the league. It was felt that things could not get any worse and we had nothing else to lose. We are a long way from that position right now no matter how frustrating the situation is on and off the pitch.
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So, you agree that there is hard debt?!

The scenario you are painting is akin to a disorderly no-deal Brexit; yes it does have the potential to end in disaster. But that’s no reason not to apply pressure on ST. He can either buck his ideas up, pay the bills on time, engage with fans, and present his plans in an open and honest fashion, or he can look to exit the club in an orderly fashion. If it’s the former, then you can play the “I told you he would come good” card. If it’s the latter, then hopefully the club will be in a stronger position. Win-win imho.

As for the storming of the boardroom, that’s revisionism of the highest order to suggest we were about to drop out of the league. We didn’t look in any real danger until Jim Smith chucked the baby out with the bath water and we plummeted to the bottom.

I just can’t believe the complacency where you, and others, are chalking up 3 or 4 winding up petitions in 12 months as not indicative of the peril the club is in. Remember, these are just from the ones we know about. There’s plenty of suggestion that there are other, smaller bills which we not getting paid on time.
 
I am as concerned as anybody about the current state of the club, on and off the field. But what would demonstrations/protests achieve?
If Tiger decides to get out who will want to buy a club with negligible assets and problems. Only one person comes to mind! Kassam!
He buys the club, deliberately fails to pay HMRC, closes the club down and builds houses. This gets OUFC out of his hair and makes him a substantial profit at the same time. Only speculation but...who knows? Protests wont affect him at his home in Monaco.
If I remember right, the last time there was a serious protest, FK split the club from the stadium and that led to many of the current problems.
 
Let’s not also forget the hard debt we now have to Kassam over settling arbitration evidence of this is in this week’s oxford mail.

Sitting here and doing nothing while fans become more disenfranchised and we have continued HMRC issues is negligible. There’s ways to find new owners especially in times of crisis and the football world, our community and the widest elements of our fan base need to be shown just how dangerous a scenario we are in. As Myles said the last days of Kassam actually showed that protests can work. I’d also hope that the supporters’ trust have contacts that may or may not be able to help in terms of potential takeovers as we certainly did during my tenure. But either way sitting by an doing nothing is not going to see things change. We clearly are in see trouble as a club as pretty much all fans agree apart from those that are more worried about agendas or self interest. We don’t have time for these situations we need to unite and show our owners we won’t stand for or club to be run like this and it’s very future to be risked.

So I’m keen to learn if OxVox is willing to lead on this or if there’s a desire for a new supporters group to take this stance.
 
I wanted to think the best of Tiger; I still do. However, it’s clear that the chances of a prosperous period with him are becoming vanishingly thin so my thoughts turn to our next owner.

Since Kassam there had always been the safety blanket of hope in the form of the Donald family. Surely they would save us, we thought. Whatever happened, they will rescue us. They won’t let OUFC die.

Only things have changed, haven’t they? They’re not in a position to help any longer, without tearing up their current commitments, which I don’t see happening.

Myles and Mark Sennett had very strong views about DE and now have them about Tiger (they’re not alone), but I wonder if they can point us in the direction of safety: an owner that delivers the dream for us through sustainability without threat or debt.

The Donald family could’ve delivered that and I suspect that was in minds of many during the tenures of FK, IL and DE but time has moved on and so must we.

Who next, Myles and Mark? Know you of the magical beast? If the answer is no then we must tread with some care to ensure that the club can survive a funding gap while the next fool is found.
 
Protests can work, but look what it ended up with. A horribly one sided license on the ground that has been a significant millstone around the clubs neck, signed by an opportunistic fraudster who stepped into a void the protest created. Be careful what you wish for...
 
Mark Sennett said:
Let’s not also forget the hard debt we now have to Kassam over settling arbitration evidence of this is in this week’s oxford mail.

Sitting here and doing nothing while fans become more disenfranchised and we have continued HMRC issues is negligible. There’s ways to find new owners especially in times of crisis and the football world, our community and the widest elements of our fan base need to be shown just how dangerous a scenario we are in. As Myles said the last days of Kassam actually showed that protests can work. I’d also hope that the supporters’ trust have contacts that may or may not be able to help in terms of potential takeovers as we certainly did during my tenure. But either way sitting by an doing nothing is not going to see things change. We clearly are in see trouble as a club as pretty much all fans agree apart from those that are more worried about agendas or self interest. We don’t have time for these situations we need to unite and show our owners we won’t stand for or club to be run like this and it’s very future to be risked.

So I’m keen to learn if OxVox is willing to lead on this or if there’s a desire for a new supporters group to take this stance.
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Set up a splinter group if you like (although I suspect that you'd rather someone else did the dirty work for you) but what will this achieve?
 
Gary Baldi said:
Protests can work, but look what it ended up with. A horribly one sided license on the ground that has been a significant millstone around the clubs neck, signed by an opportunistic fraudster who stepped into a void the protest created. Be careful what you wish for...
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Not protesting can work, but look what it ended up with. Four winding up petitions, lack of communication with fans, and the supporters trust being treated with contempt.....
 
myles said:
Not protesting can work, but look what it ended up with. Four winding up petitions, lack of communication with fans, and the supporters trust being treated with contempt.....
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Bills being paid even if late, investment in youth, training ground etc. Things could be a hell of a lot worse!!
 
And so they begin to return from afar - stirring up more discontent, ready for others to do the dirty work and then offer to run the ship. Really hope not based on past actions and performance
 
Scotchegg said:
Bills being paid even if late, investment in youth, training ground etc. Things could be a hell of a lot worse!!
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This is what you said nearly three months ago: https://yellowsforum.co.uk/threads/hmrc.590/post-95637

Since then we've had another one, possibly two, winding up petitions, we've had tales of small suppliers also not being paid, we've had OxVox not being given the time of day, we've had the MD admitting that the board probably won't get back to them, and we've had the relationship with Firoka go from bad to worse. Yep, welcome to the sunny uplands!
 
It’s rather comical to suggest I’ve not done my time for volunteering in the interests of the club we all support be it OxVox, yellow army 12th man etc. For the record I’d support OxVox or any entity challenging the current owners and demanding change as sitting by and doing nothing will be disasterous.

It’s also comical to play down the current situation and simply big up bills eventually being paid. Why don’t you ask around the fan base if they are worried, frustrated, worried or feel misled. Continued winding up orders or threats of are about as bad as gets...except admin and/or insolvency, which is the step we are edging closer towards with every situation like we have faced recently with HMRC.

So you can try and make this personal but I’ve never cared less in the past and I don’t now. I’m proud of what we achieved when I was at OxVox and you will never manage to silence me when it comes to the club i passionately care about. Myles, I and others warned about this ownership and we warned about Eales not caring about who he sold to and the mess he’d leave behind and we sadly were proved right. I wish you and others who praised those people were right but sadly you weren’t. So you can say things could be worse or say I’m wrong but fortunately most people don’t agree with you. So I’ll continue to raise concerns and help in any way needed to fight for the future of the club we support.
 
myles said:
Not protesting can work, but look what it ended up with. Four winding up petitions, lack of communication with fans, and the supporters trust being treated with contempt.....
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Coventry,Charlton, Blackpool (protests have yielded nothing, courts have in Blackpool’s case).The protests to get rid of Kassam got him out of the club but he has been taking the P**s ever since. As an aside Oxford winning is all that matters until 5pm.
 
myles said:
Not protesting can work, but look what it ended up with. Four winding up petitions, lack of communication with fans, and the supporters trust being treated with contempt.....
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Sure, but it doesn't hide the fact that OUFC has unwittingly been royally screwed over by a few fans storming the board room and the owners after have been left playing a similar tune - the license the fraudster signed was unbelievably stupid and one sided.

I suppose Charlton and Blackpool show how protesting doesn't necessarily work in the modern era - Oyston and Duchatel were still firmly in control, no matter what the fans did. Only recently has Oyston been got by a co-owner, rather than fans staying away or protesting.
 
Didcot Yellow said:
Who organised FOUL last time? How about SOUL - Save Oxford United's Life
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Martin Brodetsky, Steve Hanks, Helen Joslin, Snake (RIP), Rob Hedges, Mark Mallinson, Dave Pryor, Paul Beasley, Michelle Rodruiguez and myself I think were founders, with a few others joining along the way.
 
I mean obviously protesting can not force anyone to leave. But my god does it put pressure on when X persons name is being dragged through the mud all over national media. I will never understand the defeatist mindset statements like "What's the point?" "He's in X country so won't see it anyway".
We heard that countless times before the upside down flags and banner protest, and was then informed before half time that Tiger had seen it, was upset and wanted to address it ASAP. If a couple of banners on a Tuesday night can achieve that, what would his reaction be to Sky Sports News or BBC Sport reporting it?
The most fans can do is express their passion for the club and put pressure on those not treating it with respect. Fight for the club we love, it's the very least we as fans can do
 
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