General Supporters Panel Elections

[bazzer9461]

Any comments in the minutes deemed as confidential are included as a “Part Two” section of the minutes and are redacted from the published version of the minutes. Individuals should not publish or discuss any details of the meeting before the minutes have been approved by the Chair

A bit like North Korea

Edit,
if the Chair or Vice Chair ( in the absence of the Chair ) approve something but it’s against the feelings of some of the council, they could call for a vote of no confidence, leading to either the chair or Vice Chair Removing themselves from the politburo? But will they?

 

[Marked Ox]

Edit,
if the Chair or Vice Chair ( in the absence of the Chair ) approve something but it’s against the feelings of some of the council, they could call for a vote of no confidence, leading to either the chair or Vice Chair Removing themselves from the politburo? But will they?

Bazzer, why not see what happens rather than using poor, emotive language like "politburo" etc. Also, there will be elections should enough put themselves forward. I don't know what you think those putting themselves forward are getting from this as a volunteer (other than potential grief) but if you are that bothered then put yourself forward as a candidate...

I'm sure the same type of accusations were chucked at OxVox back in the day.

 

[Essexyellows]

I'm not sure this forum is the "most diverse spectrum of fans", I'm often struck by how the posts on here contrast hugely in tone and opinion with those on twitter for instance.

Essex - questioning, interrogating and expressing opinions is absolutely fine. So is listening to people's responses.

The EMG is not setting out to filter applications, nor to discourage anyone with alternative views, but representatives are encouraged to be available to fellow fans (how that's done is open - for example could be in the stands, down the pub or via social media) in order to gather views and be a representative rather than simply putting forth their own view without understanding a wider position.

It is unfortunately quite possible that fewer than 11 candidates will come forward. It is an issue we heard from other clubs, and that I have found in other walks of life where getting people to actually step forward for voluntary roles is very difficult. I really hope that is not the case. As there will be annual elections for 1/3 of the panel there will be the possibility of getting additional reps in the next election period to bring numbers up to 11 if this happens.

This Panel has the potential to be really good for fans, I would encourage anyone who wants to see this work for the benefit of a wide range of fans to consider standing. Especially if you can credibly represent a minority group.

Some random thoughts..... in no particular order..

There is diversity in "here" nobody has to shout about it because we all have a common purpose - our Club.

I listen, I read and occasionally soften my opinion, but will always go with common sense and majority because that is how democratic organisations should work.

Sometimes I have to "suck it up" because the majority win out, its life, but is it right that an exclusive group will now decide what is best for all of us?

I also probably suffer from some form of volunteer syndrome, I`ll always stick my hand up and give it a go, but you soon learn that it is very rarely appreciated.

Accepting it is possible that less than 11 will step forward suggests to me that the EMG has already made the process too "tricky".

There was the best part of 20 folks, including me, on the Teams meeting recently so maybe the "sales pitch" isn`t encouraging or diverse enough?

Why do panel members need two seconders? Surely being a legitimate supporter is enough?

As for Twitter - well it is already pretty clear who maybe thinking about standing. " Go and follow @OUSP and RT".

 

[Steve Gilbert]

Why would anything discussed by a group of people who represent the whole fan base then be made confidential from said fan base?
Surely fans should be able to see full minutes rather than an edited version?

 

[Oxford57]

I find the confidentially aspect a bit strange, I thought that the idea of the forum was the ability for representative members to discuss issues that the fans base thought required action, eg the “toilets”

so why would the panel get involved in areas of discussion that required total silence from the panel, they being the only fans to know something that the rest of the fans can’t know about dosnt seem very representative

if I have got the wrong end of the stick I apologise , I am just a bit baffled as I thought this was going to be of an informal process

 

[bazzer9461]

Bazzer, why not see what happens rather than using poor, emotive language like "politburo" etc. Also, there will be elections should enough put themselves forward. I don't know what you think those putting themselves forward are getting from this as a volunteer (other than potential grief) but if you are that bothered then put yourself forward as a candidate...

I'm sure the same type of accusations were chucked at OxVox back in the day.

No this is something that I can’t adhere myself to. Confidentiality, what confidentiality? Are the club going to tell the council something and say it can’t be mentioned? Why would they do that? Are the council going to discuss members on here but don’t want anyone to know? (Could be open to legal issues)
The council bare apparently bothered for the fans so there should be no confidentiality.
Is this what the published minutes will look like?

 

[guyellow]

The key sentence in the confidentiality clause is this:
"These restrictions will, however, be the exception and not the rule, and the Club will explain clearly (and to the satisfaction of the Supporters’ Panel) why information cannot be provided or must be treated in confidence."
It is also in there to protect any fan who may wish/need to raise a sensitive issue but could suffer if their details were made public.

 

[Manorlounger]

Why would anything discussed by a group of people who represent the whole fan base then be made confidential from said fan base?
Surely fans should be able to see full minutes rather than an edited version?

I find the confidentially aspect a bit strange, I thought that the idea of the forum was the ability for representative members to discuss issues that the fans base thought required action, eg the “toilets”

so why would the panel get involved in areas of discussion that required total silence from the panel, they being the only fans to know something that the rest of the fans can’t know about dosnt seem very representative

if I have got the wrong end of the stick I apologise , I am just a bit baffled as I thought this was going to be of an informal process

Please read:

6. Confidentiality
A major objective of the Supporters’ Panel is to improve the flow of information between the Club and its supporters, and to be open and transparent in its dealings. Nonetheless there are occasions when all or part of a discussion will need to be treated in confidence. The Supporters’ Panel accepts that for legal reasons (such as data protection and employment law) the Club will not be able to share certain information. These restrictions will, however, be the exception and not the rule, and the Club will explain clearly (and to the satisfaction of the Supporters’ Panel) why information cannot be provided or must be treated in confidence.
 Any matter offered by panel representatives or the Club on a confidential basis will not be disclosed beyond those present at the meeting except where non-disclosure puts an individual or group at risk of significant harm.
 Any comments in the minutes deemed as confidential are included as a “Part Two” section of the minutes and are redacted from the published version of the minutes.
 Individuals should not publish or discuss any details of the meeting before the minutes have been approved by the Chair and published on the webpage, unless specifically allowed for in the minutes, and should not at any time discuss or disclose any “Part Two” minutes outside of the Panel.

 

[bazzer9461]

The key sentence in the confidentiality clause is this:
"These restrictions will, however, be the exception and not the rule, and the Club will explain clearly (and to the satisfaction of the Supporters’ Panel) why information cannot be provided or must be treated in confidence."
It is also in there to protect any fan who may wish/need to raise a sensitive issue but could suffer if their details were made public.

I can understand the club not wanting information made public at that particular point, but then why would the clubs want to make it known to a select few. If it’s because they want to wait until such a time to announce the confidential news, then why mention it to the council? Are they privileged? No they’re not.
If a fan raises a sensitive issue surely it can be made known with the fan being anonymous, unless off course the council can’t be trusted to keep the identity secret.

 

[bazzer9461]

Individuals should not publish or discuss any details of the meeting before the minutes have been approved by the Chair Kim jong-un

 

[Essexyellows]

The key sentence in the confidentiality clause is this:
"These restrictions will, however, be the exception and not the rule, and the Club will explain clearly (and to the satisfaction of the Supporters’ Panel) why information cannot be provided or must be treated in confidence."
It is also in there to protect any fan who may wish/need to raise a sensitive issue but could suffer if their details were made public.

The last sentence is the only valid and understandable one which can be covered by simple anonimity. "An OUSP Panel Member raised XYZ issue on behalf of Fan A".

The Club should just say Yes - here is the info or No - that can not be given for commercial (or otherwise) reasons.

There shouldn`t be a halfway point where 5 or 6 folk get tipped the wink, but can`t say anything to the supporters they purport to represent.

 

[guyellow]

I can understand the club not wanting information made public at that particular point, but then why would the clubs want to make it known to a select few. If it’s because they want to wait until such a time to announce the confidential news, then why mention it to the council? Are they privileged? No they’re not.
If a fan raises a sensitive issue surely it can be made known with the fan being anonymous, unless off course the council can’t be trusted to keep the identity secret.

Obviously it will be up to the elected panel to see this out appropriately. It is not anticipated that there will be much if anything that falls into this area of confidentiality, but it's important to allow for it if needed.
We can all come up with theoretical examples, indeed this forum is built on 90 % speculation .
In your examples I don't know that the club would make things known to the Panel unless it was directly pertinent to something the panel raised. E. G. "sorry we won't fix the toilets this month as next month we are starting a groundshare, which will be announced next week". (Heaven forbid, but no worse than some of the speculation on here).
On your second point you are right that in most instances full disclosure will be possible with anonymity. However there may be rare instances where it isn't (e. g. a complaint which identifies a seat location and thereby the fan) so this allows for that scenario.

 

[bazzer9461]

Obviously it will be up to the elected panel to see this out appropriately. It is not anticipated that there will be much if anything that falls into this area of confidentiality, but it's important to allow for it if needed.
We can all come up with theoretical examples, indeed this forum is built on 90 % speculation .
In your examples I don't know that the club would make things known to the Panel unless it was directly pertinent to something the panel raised. E. G. "sorry we won't fix the toilets this month as next month we are starting a groundshare, which will be announced next week". (Heaven forbid, but no worse than some of the speculation on here).
On your second point you are right that in most instances full disclosure will be possible with anonymity. However there may be rare instances where it isn't (e. g. a complaint which identifies a seat location and thereby the fan) so this allows for that scenario.

1, I couldn’t see the club putting that scenario if it came of prominence would mention to anyone other than a general statement issued to the whole fan base via the media.

2, is that what the council would be for? Ie “ we’ve had an issues raised by annon in the south stand upper about a fan in seat 123 acting inappropriately “ what could the council do?

 

[Manorlounger]

Individuals should not publish or discuss any details of the meeting before the minutes have been approved by the Chair Kim jong-un

Have you ever served on a committee? Do you know how it works?
I have, many, many times. And, for many different organisations including SCAS* and Unison during my time as a union representative.
I am very disappointed that you can compare the work of 6 volunteers, including someone very close to you, with that of dictator from North Korea.
We all put in a lot of time to get this as far as we have. What we have achieved has been praised by the club, by the FSA and by OxVox.
Constructive criticism, by all means but, not this.


*South Central Ambulance Service

 

[guyellow]

As for Twitter - well it is already pretty clear who maybe thinking about standing. " Go and follow @OUSP and RT".

I haven't seen that tweet, and they won't get many follows with that address as it's @oufcsp but full credit to them spreading the word so that as many fans as possible are aware of the upcoming election and have the opportunity to stand.

 

[guyellow]

The last sentence is the only valid and understandable one which can be covered by simple anonimity. "An OUSP Panel Member raised XYZ issue on behalf of Fan A".

The Club should just say Yes - here is the info or No - that can not be given for commercial (or otherwise) reasons.

There shouldn`t be a halfway point where 5 or 6 folk get tipped the wink, but can`t say anything to the supporters they purport to represent.

I'm pretty sure this is how it will work out, but important to have a contingency policy for the exceptional circumstances of needed.

 

[Paul Cannell]

The key sentence in the confidentiality clause is this:
"These restrictions will, however, be the exception and not the rule, and the Club will explain clearly (and to the satisfaction of the Supporters’ Panel) why information cannot be provided or must be treated in confidence."
It is also in there to protect any fan who may wish/need to raise a sensitive issue but could suffer if their details were made public.

Missing the point, of course it won't be the rule that stuff is confidential. The points are that:

1. anything deemed confidential by the club will be excised from the public minutes without notice that it has been
2. no member of the panel can mention it


By definition that makes the Panel a controlled communications channel for the club.

 

[Essexyellows]

I haven't seen that tweet, and they won't get many follows with that address as it's @oufcsp but full credit to them spreading the word so that as many fans as possible are aware of the upcoming election and have the opportunity to stand.

I don`t really do/understand the vacuous echo chamber that is Twitter, just read and observe. Thanks for the correction.

Is anyone willing to address why a genuine/legitimate supporter willing to volunteer needs two "seconders" to get past the EMG?

 

[Manorlounger]

Missing the point, of course it won't be the rule that stuff is confidential. The points are that:

1. anything deemed confidential by the club will be excised from the public minutes without notice that it has been
2. no member of the panel can mention it


By definition that makes the Panel a controlled communications channel for the club.

Thank goodness that doesn't happen with any other supporter group.

 

[bazzer9461]

Have you ever served on a committee? Do you know how it works?
I have, many, many times. And, for many different organisations including SCAS* and Unison during my time as a union representative.
I am very disappointed that you can compare the work of 6 volunteers, including someone very close to you, with that of dictator from North Korea.
We all put in a lot of time to get this as far as we have. What we have achieved has been praised by the club, by the FSA and by OxVox.
Constructive criticism, by all means but, not this.


*South Central Ambulance Service

Yes I have worked on committees nothing to do with unions as they are to militant and yes I gathered SCAS was what you’ve put. I do know how they work and have never witnesssed anything but good apart from one committee which was dismissed without a thought and they cowered and yes I called them MUPPETS for not having the bottle to stand up against the people whondismossed them.
I believe the Stoke city fans council are having a issues with their club, this is something that I doubt whether our would interfere with but would want a working dialogue with.
but I will always ask questions and more than likely respond to answers with more questions. This is a public forum and we should be allowed to and it’s tough if some don’t appreciate that as I’m sure all well apart from Kip are Oxford fans.
The close person to me doesn’t discuss what WG talk about as I’ve been told to butt out and waiting for announcements.
I don’t agree with everything that I have seen so far and yes I also see a couple blowing their trumpets towards the group and I say best of luck to them.
But you and your fellow members should be prepared for questions no matter how tou or the WG perceive them to be, if they’re difficult then that is as I would say “ tough” and if you reply we answer them, if they are answers to a satisfactory response then fare enough, but if not they will be responded to by further questions.
This is certainly nothing personal.
PS I hate unions