National News Sir Keir Starmer

[Essexyellows]

And if he had, you'd claim he was being divisive in a crisis! PMQs is a pantomime (although perhaps a bit less with fewer MPs to make silly noises!)

As previously, I want a decent opposition and understand he is in a difficult place for the National good, but he needs to "get on the front foot more".

Now`t wrong with the theatre/panto of PMQ`s.

 

[Essexyellows]

No U turns here..............

The Labour leader said firms that shut should be compensated so “no business loses out”, though he did not spell out the details of exactly how.
He also failed to say what a circuit-breaker might cost.....................................

Keir Starmer demands two-week 'circuit break' lockdown in major change of policy

Labour's leader dramatically broke with his attempts to support the government as he said Boris Johnson must listen to what his own scientists called for - and lock down for a fortnight

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[QR]

No U turns here..............

The Labour leader said firms that shut should be compensated so “no business loses out”, though he did not spell out the details of exactly how.
He also failed to say what a circuit-breaker might cost.....................................

Keir Starmer demands two-week 'circuit break' lockdown in major change of policy

Labour's leader dramatically broke with his attempts to support the government as he said Boris Johnson must listen to what his own scientists called for - and lock down for a fortnight

www.mirror.co.uk

He supported Johnson because Johnson said he was following scientific advice as Bazzer has been telling us today. Now we know Johnson wasn't wouldn't you expect Starmer's views to change?

 

[Essexyellows]

He supported Johnson because Johnson said he was following scientific advice as Bazzer has been telling us today. Now we know Johnson wasn't wouldn't you expect Starmer's views to change?

Can`t cost it, doesn`t know "how". Apart from that all good yes?
Boris is following the advice in a limited way.... they wanted us back in lockdown.
You & I both know that is not viable, so they go part of the way then gradually tighten the screw.

Trench warfare rather than shock and awe.
Look up Tannenbaum & Schmidt leadership style................... educate yourself that leadership is not "Yes" or "No".....

 

[Marked Ox]

Can`t cost it, doesn`t know "how". Apart from that all good yes?
Boris is following the advice in a limited way.... they wanted us back in lockdown.
You & I both know that is not viable, so they go part of the way then gradually tighten the screw.

Trench warfare rather than shock and awe.
Look up Tannenbaum & Schmidt leadership style................... educate yourself that leadership is not "Yes" or "No".....

And not doing a lockdown may ultimately cost more.

 

[QR]

Can`t cost it, doesn`t know "how". Apart from that all good yes?
Boris is following the advice in a limited way.... they wanted us back in lockdown.
You & I both know that is not viable, so they go part of the way then gradually tighten the screw.

Trench warfare rather than shock and awe.
Look up Tannenbaum & Schmidt leadership style................... educate yourself that leadership is not "Yes" or "No".....

Yeah, just sit there and wait for the coming sh1tsh0w.

 

[Essexyellows]

And not doing a lockdown may ultimately cost more.

Or may not when looking at the bigger picture.
Having local leaders making the choices has to be better as they are "on the ground".
No point shutting a pub/hairdressers etc in Kent to solve a problem in Cumbria.

 

[Essexyellows]

Yeah, just sit there and wait for the coming sh1tsh0w.

Or do what?
The plane is crashing..... do we nose dive into the concrete or belly flop it on some wonky wheels and save a higher percentage of passengers & the crew?

We (you, me, them, everyone) has to learn to live with this.
Not until Christmas, not until next year but probably for the rest of our lives.
7.8 BILLION people globally is a lot of hosts it doesn`t move, we move it.
90% or so in the UK haven`t had it or been anywhere near it.
We are on a bit over 9,000 cases per million of population.
Its a long game and whilst the magic money tree has been shaken there isn`t a forest of them.

 

[MC Yellow]

Yeah, just sit there and wait for the coming sh1tsh0w.

Simple question... could you and all of your friends and family afford to go into lockdown again and be financially self sufficient for the next 6-9 months because that in all likelihood maybe what it takes to really get on top of this.

2-3 week circuit break is just a token gesture and in all likelihood an utter waste of time.

 

[Marked Ox]

Or may not when looking at the bigger picture.
Having local leaders making the choices has to be better as they are "on the ground".
No point shutting a pub/hairdressers etc in Kent to solve a problem in Cumbria.

Apart from the stats are going up pretty much across the board apart from in 3 areas in England as per the map in this:

Covid-19: Are we still listening to the science?

Sage and Prof Chris Whitty appear at odds with the political decisions made by government.

www.bbc.co.uk

While I support local authroities getting some control (and I hope it actually is with resources for them to do something, rather than just lip service from the Govt to palm off responsibility), lets get that wave under some form of control to begin with as suggested by the Scientists. Otherwise the bigger picture may be it dragging on and on and hence costing a lot more.

 

[Essexyellows]

Apart from the stats are going up pretty much across the board apart from in 3 areas in England as per the map in this:

Covid-19: Are we still listening to the science?

Sage and Prof Chris Whitty appear at odds with the political decisions made by government.

www.bbc.co.uk

While I support local authroities getting some control (and I hope it actually is with resources for them to do something, rather than just lip service from the Govt to palm off responsibility), lets get that wave under some form of control to begin with as suggested by the Scientists. Otherwise the bigger picture may be it dragging on and on and hence costing a lot more.

See the post above yours.
A 2 or 3 week lockdown doesn`t solve anything as the virus is/was already too embedded in communities.
So you lockdown for 3 weeks, release it, start again. 3 weeks later back in lockdown and so on............ yes the waves would be smaller but the broader cost would be horrific.

 

[Marked Ox]

See the post above yours.
A 2 or 3 week lockdown doesn`t solve anything as the virus is/was already too embedded in communities.
So you lockdown for 3 weeks, release it, start again. 3 weeks later back in lockdown and so on............ yes the waves would be smaller but the broader cost would be horrific.

SAGE appear to disagree that it is a waste of time.

 

[MC Yellow]

SAGE appear to disagree that it is a waste of time.

We have seen the outcome of a full and lengthy lockdown... so why do Sage consider a token gesture will resolve the problem.

Maybe that is why the government have stopped listening.

 

[Essexyellows]

SAGE appear to disagree that it is a waste of time.

I did post the link to the SAGE paper on the Covid thread.
They were looking at it from a scientific point of view obviously, they wanted the full hair shirt and flagellation.
The politico`s read it and said "We`ll try the hair shirt for a few weeks then flagellation a bit later, that OK? "
Its how it works in the real world... balancing an ever complex see-saw with random folk chucking sandbags on.

 

[QR]

I did post the link to the SAGE paper on the Covid thread.
They were looking at it from a scientific point of view obviously, they wanted the full hair shirt and flagellation.
The politico`s read it and said "We`ll try the hair shirt for a few weeks then flagellation a bit later, that OK? "
Its how it works in the real world... balancing an ever complex see-saw with random folk chucking sandbags on.

So why did they say they were following then scientists? .... and round we go again.

 

[Marked Ox]

We have seen the outcome of a full and lengthy lockdown... so why do Sage consider a token gesture will resolve the problem.

Maybe that is why the government have stopped listening.

Because it will stop the increasing wave would I assume be their reasoning.

 

[m]

We have seen the outcome of a full and lengthy lockdown... so why do Sage consider a token gesture will resolve the problem.

Maybe that is why the government have stopped listening.

SAGE will offer guidance using the very latest and best scientific evidence.

The day the government - who are lay people in this instance - stop listening is a very black day for our country.

Of course the government needs to mitigate and must balance the advice from SAGE against other needs.

And we can only speculate as to the advice that SAGE is giving.

 

[QR]

Simple question... could you and all of your friends and family afford to go into lockdown again and be financially self sufficient for the next 6-9 months because that in all likelihood maybe what it takes to really get on top of this.

2-3 week circuit break is just a token gesture and in all likelihood an utter waste of time.

No.... and that's not what the scientists are recommending ... and we're are all (save for the lucky few) going to be paying for this for years/decades to come through taxation or immediately through loss of income even if the government puts in further financial support. There are no easy answers it's a question of damage limitation. And the government is doing just about the worst job at limiting the damage that is possible.

 

[MC Yellow]

No.... and that's not what the scientists are recommending ... and we're are all (save for the lucky few) going to be paying for this for years/decades to come through taxation or immediately through loss of income even if the government puts in further financial support. There are no easy answers it's a question of damage limitation. And the government is doing just about the worst job at limiting the damage that is possible.

I agree there are no easy answers. An incredibly difficult situation.

However, whether the government is doing just about the worst job at limiting the damage is pure speculation. You, I or anyone else has absolutely no foundation to base that fact. We have absolutely no basis to say any other prime minister or political party would have been better, worse or indifferent.

Yes the situation is dire. The cost whether it be measured in terms of deaths, finances or ongoing health issues is horrific whichever way you spin it.

I know Sage are not calling for a lengthy lockdown but (and this is only my opinion) after seeing the short term benefits of 3 months of lockdown, I just don’t see how 2-3 weeks will stem the tide. I could be absolutely wrong of course, thankfully I don’t have to make such a call.

Let‘s just hope we can see some light at the end of this tunnel early in the New Year.

 

[sadoldsod1778]

You have only to look at France and Spain both had longer and harder lockdowns than us and what’s happening now far worst than us also Holland now. Life has to go on remember if your old enough 85 thousand died of Hong Kong flu in 68/69 don’t remember a lockdown then.