National News Official 2019 General Election Thread

[Sarge]

Absolutely, the referendum was for (IIRC) single transferable vote within a constituency so all it offered was a slight smoothing between the big parties, it offered nothing for the outriders: Greens, Socialists, UKIP and whatever.

Perhaps there's an appetite for a real national PR with lists where seats reflect the number of votes, I was kind of impressed last night that 1,500 or people in each early declaration seat were voting Green - which is a total waste of a vote measured in terms of influencing the number of seats any party gets in parliament. Beautiful optimism. I can't share it. For the next term the Tory government will be concentrating (electorally) on reforming constituency boundaries, preventing wild and bogus reporting from the likes of the BBC and Channel 4 and reforming social media so that it can be used more effectively to disseminate simple and divisive messages against opponents of the, um, Tories.

more or less as set out on page 48 of the tory manifesto

 

[QR]

Well they might when they lose. ..
To get PR we need a party who actually succeeds to be in favour.
So next time Labour win an outright majority will they go for PR? I very much doubt it.
AV may have been a 'waste of time' but it may have been the only chance.
The only way I can see it happening again is if there is a hung Parliament , and those minority parties try and force it through

I think most people know it won't happen for the reasons you have said but that's not my point.

What I want to know is, is 52% the will of the people out isn't it? BTW I think it is

 

[Paul Cannell]

Who won the big battle of the night though?

I must go and tend my garden, but before I do - if you'd been watching ITV's coverage you would have been informed by the presenter that Newcastle Central won the biggest battle of the night when they declared ahead of Sunderland Methven! It surprised me at the time.

 

[Foley]

Come what may, even if no trade deals are done and verges are still not being cut in 2024, the Tories will win another landslide because the Lib Dems will not have emerged from the shadows, and Labour will still be creaking under the outdated rhetoric of Momentum and McDonnell, whoever is actually in charge.

That's the depressing bit Pete.
I do tend to agree though.

 

[Fistfullofdollars]

Such a bizarre set of results. Brexit uber alles.

Working class regions voting in their droves for the architects of austerity politics that have badly damaged their regions, all in the name of Leave.
Affluent Londoners in areas that have barely felt a pinch from austerity deserting the Tories for whoever will try and fight for Remain.
The Scots basically sending the message that they'd rather be in the EU than in the UK (or at least Boris' UK).

I get that Brexit's the single biggest political issue for a couple of generations - but it seems to have provoked everyone to vote against their own self-interest!

Affluent Londoners?! Large parts of the Labour vote in London are right up there with some of the most deprived areas in the country. Bit lazy to characterise Londoners as all affluent? and to say they havent felt austerity is rubbish

 

[Sarge]

a country ( England) gets what it voted for..... in the case of England, we laughed at America voting in trump, we now have our own version. Thankfully Oxford East and Oxford West are exceptions .... nonetheless them Blue Meanies are coming for us all- wheres a yellow submarine when you need one?

 

[QR]

Just listened to Nicola Sturgeon speak on the BBC. As a leader she knocks the spots off Johnson, Corbyn et al irrespective of whether you agree with a single thing she says.

 

[Essexyellows]

At least Boris can now start 'bringing the country back together again'. He could start by reining in some of the gloating commentators on here, the same posters who liked referring to 'losers' after the referendum.

So Brexit is done now. All the new Tory voters in Lancashire and Northumberland will no doubt be keeping a close check on all the new trade deals Boris finishes negotiating before Christmas, and looking forward to a return to proper public services now that the Tories have agreed to put an end to austerity.

Come what may, even if no trade deals are done and verges are still not being cut in 2024, the Tories will win another landslide because the Lib Dems will not have emerged from the shadows, and Labour will still be creaking under the outdated rhetoric of Momentum and McDonnell, whoever is actually in charge.

If there is a vote, and if it is a simple question, then you get a winner and a loser.
There is no shame in losing, nor in celebrating victory.
Locally my preferred party lost, nationally my preferred party won.

I won`t be shouting that Liz Kendall doesn`t represent me, she won fair and square.
She is my constituency MP, even with a greatly reduced majority.
I really wish he had of had an effective opposition but you can only play the team put out by the other side.

 

[Essexyellows]

I like her. She's an eloquent, coherent leader. Boris has undoubtedly done well in England and Wales, but SNP now dominates to such an extent in Scotland that he could face constitutional problems there ahead. Likewise, Nationalist MPs outnumber Unionists in Northern Ireland. No doubt the queen 'had a word' about the union this morning.

SNP get 1.24 million votes.
Unionist Parties got 1.4 million.

Same theory as Leave/Remain playing numbers................. ? ?

 

[QR]

Just seen Lib dem share of the vote increased by 50% (8% to 12%) but number of seats fallen from 12 to 11!!! (before St Ives vote is on). Yo democracy!

 

[Sarge]

guess the Green and Climate change lobbyists will be pleased, as England has now gone Corbyn neutral

 

[QR]

SNP get 1.24 million votes.
Unionist Parties got 1.4 million.

Same theory as Leave/Remain playing numbers................. ? ?

Don't disagree but the point I was making was about whether the number of votes the SNP won is 'fair' it was about leadership qualities. Keep up!

 

[QR]

Don't disagree but the point I was making was about whether the number of votes the SNP won is 'fair' it was about leadership qualities. Keep up!

Sorry wasn't not was. Been counting votes all night. Never again.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

Yep. Fair-minded, moderate liberals now have nowhere to belong to. A more sensible Miliband/Starmer/whoever led Labour party might be able to rebuild support from ground level, but it will be a long haul.

Hopefully, now he has the power and the majority, Boris will adopt a more caring approach to keep his new voters onside.

Lets face it, it all went wrong for Labour when they chose the wrong Milliband, handed huge power to the unions in the process and began their headlong lurch as far left as they could go which has been unchecked until now. The unelectable got a stay of execution in 2017 simply because they Maybot was so dreadful she made Corbyn look almost competent. This time though, they really jumped the shark.

It was evident (and I said as much on this thread) that the Tory's really didn't have to try too hard in this campaign - they kept it very simple and promised very little of any substance. Probably because we don't like substance and we do like simple as a general rule. In winning this election they have (for now at least) put the ERG genie back in its bottle and made Farage look as homeless as the people DePfeffel used to burn £50 notes in front of.

The Tory's won fair and square, no doubt about that. The nation has spoken in a proper democratic exercise...this is not a drill nor and advisory...this is a call to deliver, and they and every single person who voted for them now own this in its entirety.
And now it is all about delivery. They are responsible for delivering the Brexit they crave and they will be happy (or they will have to put up or shut up) with what ever that actually means and what that actually looks like. They are now responsible for delivering the extra 40 hospitals and the extra 32,000 nurses to go with it....and the 20,000 extra Police Officers etc...etc...

Such a shame there is no meaningful opposition in government to hold their feet to the fire. Democracy is the poorer for it and Corbyn and co needs to own the majority of the blame for the situation we find ourselves in.

I always come back the Irving Welsh quote about voting:

"When you're not doing so well, vote for a better life for yourselves. If you're doing quite nicely, vote for a better life for others"

For me this will always be central to being part of a civilised, democratic society and I fear dark days are ahead if we shift too far away from this.

 

[Yellow River]

Just seen Lib dem share of the vote increased by 50% (8% to 12%) but number of seats fallen from 12 to 11!!! (before St Ives vote is on). Yo democracy!

In the Witney constituency the LibDem vote increased by 10%, however the Green Party didn’t stand, so they will have picked up extra votes from them. I suspect that was replicated in other constituencies.

 

[Essexyellows]

Don't disagree but the point I was making was about whether the number of votes the SNP won is 'fair' it was about leadership qualities. Keep up!

I think you mean "wasn`t". Do keep up. ?

I haven't checked the numbers, but 'Unionist parties got 1.4 million votes'. Which Unionist parties? The entire population of Northern Ireland is only 1.8 million, so you can't be referring to the DUP and their fellow Unionist parties?

I was referring to parties that would retain the union of Scotland within the UK , everyone else except the SNP.

As posted earlier give the SNP a trial run with no Barnett formula and see how they got on.

 

[QR]

In the Witney constituency the LibDem vote increased by 10%, however the Green Party didn’t stand, so they will have picked up extra votes from them. I suspect that was replicated in other constituencies.

FFS my point wasn't one about the merits of tactical voting it was about how the voting system works! Replace Lib dem with any other party you wish to choose

I think you mean "wasn`t". Do keep up. ?



I was referring to parties that would retain the union of Scotland within the UK , everyone else except the SNP.

As posted earlier give the SNP a trial run with no Barnett formula and see how they got on.

Which I corrected immediately below my first post. I'm sure you were keeping up but we're pretending not to. Naughty.

 

[QR]

In the Witney constituency the LibDem vote increased by 10%, however the Green Party didn’t stand, so they will have picked up extra votes from them. I suspect that was replicated in other constituencies.

FFS my point wasn't about the merits of tactical voting but about the relationship between votes cast and seats won.

 

[Yellow River]

I fear for Labour, I really do.

This was a worse result than Michael Foots disastrous campaign in 1983 and look how long and difficult it was to turn the party round from that awful result. I’m not sure the will is in the current Labour Party and it’s backers/influencers to make the changes that will be needed to make them electable.

There are too many in the party who are in complete denial about the reasons they lost so badly. Yes Brexit played its part, in particular Corbyn’s bizarre and useless stance on it. But the stench of anti semitism hanging over the party had a huge impact, also the worry and concerns about Corbyn and our national security.

 

[Yellow River]

FFS my point wasn't about the merits of tactical voting but about the relationship between votes cast and seats won.

Calm down, no need to be so angry.


If we had PR the Greens wouldn’t step aside and not stand, and therefore the LDs would gain less votes.