National News Official 2019 General Election Thread

It's going to be an incredibly interesting and tight race - will Remain/Leave form pacts to ensure that other parties are taken out?
Will Brenda complain again?
Will Boris have a battle bus that will troll the opposition?

I'm not sure how 16/17 years olds can suddenly vote as Labour want - smells of self interest over national interest.
 
Essexyellows said:
16 year olds voting? Feck off, they have zero life experience and would be suckers for "influence".
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And to quote some others

"There isn't enough time to debate such a large and complicated amendment" and this feels rushed in order to give them an advantage. What's good for the goose is good for the gander right?

How would we even ensure 16/17 year olds know what they are voting for? ?‍♂️
 
I'm all for 16/18 year old voting but it will be funny when the progressive parties suddenly turn when the new voters start saying smoking/drinking ages should be 16 and the age of consent lowered.
 
Most of the political insiders are suggesting that the 16yr old and EU citizen amendments won't get selected - amendments have to be within the scope of the bill, and those are likely to be viewed as outside (when to have an election is politically not the same question as who gets to vote in an election).

But we'll find out very soon...….
 
Essexyellows said:
16 year olds voting? Feck off, they have zero life experience and would be suckers for "influence".
Click to expand...
Same reason I think out of touch people over a certain age shouldn’t be able to vote on things they don’t understand, and which won’t ultimately affect them. A 16 year old has more to lose and actually has a better understanding of how the MODERN world works than most people who are over 50. But hey ho, we can continue pretending!

Tories will form a coalition with Brexit Party as the largest single party. Labour will get smashed into oblivion and Lib Dem’s will take 100 seats.
 
Would the parliamentary boundaries need to be reviewed before allowing the franchise to change to ensure it's fair for all who vote? It's not just a case of 16/17 years olds being added in and off we go. Ironic considering that opposition parties have been dead against changing boundaries!

Also, the international standard for voting is 18, so perhaps we need to consider more than what seems to be self interest of opposition parties before making the change? The same applies for allowing EU voters, where the same gift is not given elsewhere in the EU. Why should the UK step outside of the standards other than rampant self interest of the minority?
 
December 12th mooted as a possible date.
Reasons for me
1 Students won’t vote in large numbers as they’ll still be on campus. The student vote helped Labour considerably last time.
2. If the weather is bad many voters won’t bother. Labour voters might be deterred because of lack of transport or so the theory is.

I think an election is necessary to clear the deadwood that is in parliament now. We need a fresh intake of young MPs to get this country going forward again
 
I for one am just glad we’re having a second early general election since the referendum - SECOND - purely because people (namely a minority government, aka not a majority) aren’t getting what they want.

I know we all believe in minorities not getting what they want and forcing votes on something we already voted on, so I trust that we will all be outraged, universally, that we’re going back to the polls when we already voted on this two years ago.
 
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ljs said:
Agree with that.... But plenty of adults seem suckers for soundbite too.
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You mean the ones who blindly believe what they’re told, especially on things like Facebook, which is technology that young people know far more about?

I don’t have a particularly strong opinion on the 16 vote either way, but I’m not having anyone say they’re too easily led to be trusted when the most gullible and easily manipulated people I’ve ever met in 2019 are those over the age of about 50. Let’s have a better, less hypocritical reason for it than that.
 
RyanioBirdio said:
You mean the ones who blindly believe what they’re told, especially on things like Facebook, which is technology that young people know far more about?

I don’t have a particularly strong opinion on the 16 vote either way, but I’m not having anyone say they’re too easily led to be trusted when the most gullible and easily manipulated people I’ve ever met in 2019 are those over the age of about 50. Let’s have a better, less hypocritical reason for it than that.
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Oi! Less of the ageism, if you don't mind. :)
 
Manorlounger said:
Oi! Less of the ageism, if you don't mind. :)
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Apologies Mr Lounger, it's simply what I find and have found to be the case. You can never generalise everybody and nor would I ever wish to, but I do think there is a very, very large proportion of the 'older generation' who are swayed and manipulated much easier than most, especially with targeted Facebook advertising (including completely fabricated news sites posing as legitimate news sources) and this old-fashioned notion that things must be true or the newspapers wouldn't be allowed to print them, which is far, far more common than you might think. Every last member of my family who are 60 and above base their beliefs on what they read in papers or what comes up on their Facebook. Every single one of them - I've had this out with them more times than I care to recall - and all they ever throw at me as their proof is that they read it here and there etc. That's it, constantly. "I read this thing in this place and if it wasn't true they couldn't say it" - that is their entire argument. Even when I've then shown them something which absolutely discredits their source, they don't believe it.

There was a thing a few months ago where a photo was doing the rounds that was claiming to be of the rubbish left behind in London by climate change protestors, but it was actually a photo taken of a park from another country in Europe many months earlier, which was showing the aftermath of a festival or something along those lines, and I showed my own mother the original dated article containing the same image she threw at me and went, "They're lying to you - the thing on Facebook isn't real. This is the original photo and this is what it is of - it isn't in London nor is it related to these protestors" and she outright shook her head and went, "I don't believe you". There's nothing I can do for that, and it's the only mindset I'm ever encountering from people who are retired or nearing that age. Very few people over a certain age are seemingly open to proof anymore, because it's all just fake news and Project Fear, as they put it. The overwhelming vibe coming down the way is absolutely one of, "I am older than you and I am smarter, nobody could possibly deceive me the way you say they do because I've been around the block, and if you think I'm being tricked then you must also think I'm stupid, and if that's the case then I'm going to show you how stupid I really am by beating you". Whatever this whole 'beating you' and 'winning' thing even means anymore.

I genuinely don't wish to come across as though I'm simply discarding anyone above a certain age, but this is all too common, and if it's 100% of my relatives which takes in parents, grandparents, aunties and uncles - and I've had this out with every last one of them, bar none - there's every chance that while it won't be 100% across the board, it's going to be a decent enough percentage for someone to be able to go, "Yeah, this is a problem". I'm only speaking for myself and I can only tell you what I experience and encounter, regularly. I am certainly not doing it to be provocative, nor do I wish to throw you in a ditch just because you may be of a certain generation!
 
RyanioBirdio said:
Apologies Mr Lounger, it's simply what I find and have found to be the case. You can never generalise everybody and nor would I ever wish to, but I do think there is a very, very large proportion of the 'older generation' who are swayed and manipulated much easier than most, especially with targeted Facebook advertising (including completely fabricated news sites posing as legitimate news sources) and this old-fashioned notion that things must be true or the newspapers wouldn't be allowed to print them, which is far, far more common than you might think. Every last member of my family who are 60 and above base their beliefs on what they read in papers or what comes up on their Facebook. Every single one of them - I've had this out with them more times than I care to recall - and all they ever throw at me as their proof is that they read it here and there etc. That's it, constantly. "I read this thing in this place and if it wasn't true they couldn't say it" - that is their entire argument. Even when I've then shown them something which absolutely discredits their source, they don't believe it.

There was a thing a few months ago where a photo was doing the rounds that was claiming to be of the rubbish left behind in London by climate change protestors, but it was actually a photo taken of a park from another country in Europe many months earlier, which was showing the aftermath of a festival or something along those lines, and I showed my own mother the original dated article containing the same image she threw at me and went, "They're lying to you - the thing on Facebook isn't real. This is the original photo and this is what it is of - it isn't in London nor is it related to these protestors" and she outright shook her head and went, "I don't believe you". There's nothing I can do for that, and it's the only mindset I'm ever encountering from people who are retired or nearing that age. Very few people over a certain age are seemingly open to proof anymore, because it's all just fake news and Project Fear, as they put it. The overwhelming vibe coming down the way is absolutely one of, "I am older than you and I am smarter, nobody could possibly deceive me the way you say they do because I've been around the block, and if you think I'm being tricked then you must also think I'm stupid, and if that's the case then I'm going to show you how stupid I really am by beating you". Whatever this whole 'beating you' and 'winning' thing even means anymore.

I genuinely don't wish to come across as though I'm simply discarding anyone above a certain age, but this is all too common, and if it's 100% of my relatives which takes in parents, grandparents, aunties and uncles - and I've had this out with every last one of them, bar none - there's every chance that while it won't be 100% across the board, it's going to be a decent enough percentage for someone to be able to go, "Yeah, this is a problem". I'm only speaking for myself and I can only tell you what I experience and encounter, regularly. I am certainly not doing it to be provocative, nor do I wish to throw you in a ditch just because you may be of a certain generation!
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No Facebook or such like in my household. Neither I nor Mrs Lounger have any time for them. I don't bother with newspapers for the very reason you gave, too much misleading or potentially miss-reported stuff about. Mrs Lounger gets the Telegraph and we both get a laugh out of some of the letters and enjoy the crossword. As to it's politics, who cares, not us.
There is a belief held that experience is a good tutor and is why so many of the "older generation" (whoever they are) have a critical stance towards the "younger generation" (again, whoever they are) That may be right, may be wrong but, having lived longer than others, the potential to have experienced more grows exponentially.
Each generation sees the next generation as abusers of what they held as "right and wrong" I often find myself bemoaning the lack of good manners amongst the younger members of society. I reflect on what my elders taught me as being the right thing to do, or how to behave. I then stop and think - Jeez, have I got old? No. Times have changed, society has changed. Good, bad, it's all perspective.
It could be said that age is not a dictator of beliefs its more that beliefs have become comfortably situated and change is very difficult. And, don't assume that we are wrong because you believe you are right.
Sometimes, the older do know better!
 
I think I heard on the radio yesterday that 16 year old members were allowed to vote on Boris Johnson in the latest leadership campaign. If that is the case then I think it’s reasonable to argue that 16 year olds should have the opportunity to vote on the potential next Government.
 
Do we need to add more kids who can’t be bothered to get out of bed to vote to the large number who already don’t?

How many 16 year olds are actually in full time tax paying work? It’s a minuscule number, most have no life experience and absolutely no responsibilities, if they were likely to vote Tory then not one person advocating giving near children the vote would do so.
 
I don’t necessarily agree with it but I don’t agree with parties/politicians who’ve permitted 16 year olds in their own leadership elections to then say it’s not permitted in a general election.

As has been said above there is a bit of hypocrisy in that a 16 year old can go to work and begin paying taxes but for two years potentially have no opportunity to decide how they might be being spent. There’s also the issue that our armed forces (Army for example) believe a 15yr 7 month old person has enough understanding of life to begin their application to potentially lose their life serving queen and country before they’re even eligible to vote in a conflict our politicians would have decided that we got involved in.

There needs to be a bit of consistency somewhere
 
SteMerritt said:
Considering they can't leave school at 16 to go into full-time work, I'd suggest not many.
Click to expand...

Forgot they had changed it, by 16 I had spent 8 years working down the mine, hell of a commute from Oxford as well.
 
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