Other European Nations league

[werthersoriginal]

What about Hungary, Germany and Italy did those players not need a rest? Sorry but two more lane friendlies as you call them and then it’s the World Cup…..imagine if the World Cup was played at the normal time of the year, we would be the laughing stock.
It may sound harsh buts it’s honesty, we have been ooor for the four games so far.

I expect we’d have got a bit more psyched up if it was the real thing? Can’t say Southgate excites me but have a bit of proportion.

 

[bazzer9461]

I expect we’d have got a bit more psyched up if it was the real thing? Can’t say Southgate excites me but have a bit of proportion.

We have just played poor, maybe the thought they’re of to Dubai or the Maldives for three hours r four weeks before they go to the states for a week or two was on their minds.

 

[SirAndyOfCrosby]

Diabolical from this team of donkeys

Nice way to bring up your 30k and new status Bazzer. @Sarge no longer in a league of his own! Just the 4.5k to go @Marked Ox

 

[werthersoriginal]

We have just played poor, maybe the thought they’re of to Dubai or the Maldives for three hours r four weeks before they go to the states for a week or two was on their minds.

I’m not the best person to discuss it, i really hate international friendlies so for me the real competitions exist in a weird vacuum.

 

[mooro]

In general I support the Idea of the Nations league, when it is spread out over a few months, one or two games at a time, to replace friendlies, but I think it was a mistake to try to cram six games in before the WC, and especially four in ten days at the end of a long season when preseason is set to start earlier than ever.

Without having watched much of the games, the results across the tournament show a lot of the big sides have struggled at times and generally been a bit hit or miss. It's not as if Germany or Italy tore us apart and many have dropped points against teams they would normally beat, which tells me that most of the players, particularly those from the big leagues, have been running on empty and that we'll probably find that overall results will bear little relation to iwhere teams actually are in their preparations for the WC.

Yes, of course we've been poor, but I find it quite sad how quickly some people have jumped on this to call for Southgate to go, seemingly forgetting that he has steered us further in the last two tournaments than any other manager since Sir Alf and all with a squad no better (and defensively somewhat weaker) than those that many of his predecessors had to call on.

 

[yellowbow]

Im going to don my tin hat here...

Yeah I get the argument that Southgate has got some positive results, but the agu ent that we have had two great tournaments under him has to be given some perspective. In the WC we got well beaten by the first decent team we came up against which opened up a very favourable route for us. We then had the scenario of having to beat Croatia to get to the final. Ok theyre a decent team but If any of us were offered that opportunity we would snatch your hand off as they say. We go a goal up but then went in to our negative shell and threw it away.

At the Euros, we navigated our way to the final with some good results including beating Germany. Fair enough. But then we again have a fantastic opportunity to achieve something. A final in our own back yard against an Italy team who have since shown that they were on the wane, in a covid environment where at least 80% of the crowd were partisan in their support. We again have a great start, go a goal up early, and Italy are rocking. But instead of going for the jugular we again go cautious, hand the initiative back to Italy and ultimately lose.

You could argue that we have had two great tournaments or you could argue that we have thrown away two great opportunities.

Its similar in some ways with KR’s record here. So close and yet so far with, ultimately nothing to show for it. I for one struggle to forgive a failure to seize great opportunities. For England its games against Croatia and Italy. Fof us its that game against Wycombe at Wembley

Maybe Im just a cranky old fella though....

 

[unification]

Im going to don my tin hat here...

Yeah I get the argument that Southgate has got some positive results, but the agu ent that we have had two great tournaments under him has to be given some perspective. In the WC we got well beaten by the first decent team we came up against which opened up a very favourable route for us. We then had the scenario of having to beat Croatia to get to the final. Ok theyre a decent team but If any of us were offered that opportunity we would snatch your hand off as they say. We go a goal up but then went in to our negative shell and threw it away.

At the Euros, we navigated our way to the final with some good results including beating Germany. Fair enough. But then we again have a fantastic opportunity to achieve something. A final in our own back yard against an Italy team who have since shown that they were on the wane, in a covid environment where at least 80% of the crowd were partisan in their support. We again have a great start, go a goal up early, and Italy are rocking. But instead of going for the jugular we again go cautious, hand the initiative back to Italy and ultimately lose.

You could argue that we have had two great tournaments or you could argue that we have thrown away two great opportunities.

Its similar in some ways with KR’s record here. So close and yet so far with, ultimately nothing to show for it. I for one struggle to forgive a failure to seize great opportunities. For England its games against Croatia and Italy. Fof us its that game against Wycombe at Wembley

Maybe Im just a cranky old fella though....

No tin hat necessary. I think I'm in a minority who thinks Southgate is a pretty decent character to have in charge of the England team. Maybe because my emotional attachment to the national side is pretty mild (I'm happy when they do well, I shrug and move on when they don't) I see things differently to those who want to win every game and win it perfectly playing thrilling football. He has an approach and a philosophy. Everyone from Hoddle onwards has been 'throw the best English XI together and see what happens' and look where it's taken the national side.

I'll concede on the Italy final. At Wembley and with a less than stellar Italy side in front of them, he could have allowed his team to find an extra gear. Go for the 2-1 win and risk being caught on the break. His natural caution cost him on that occasion. In light of the crowd trouble, I have no qualms with Italy winning the shoot out.

That said, it got England to the final in the first place, something never achieved before at the Euros nor since 1966. Watch the extra time against Denmark and England were in absolute control of it. In that tournament, only against the up-for-it Scots and an appalling back pass from Sterling against Germany were England ringing the alarm bells. It was patient, methodical and - when it needed to be - ruthless. The last element has deserted them in the last four games.

The argument for weak or favourable draws is redundant to me. You don't choose who you come up against and can only beat what's in front of you. In 2002, a Germany side who had to go through the playoffs to qualify for the finals had a weak as P**s group of Ireland, Cameroon and Saudi Arabia (who they beat 8-0) and then a favourable run of Paraguay, USA and South Korea. They lost easily to Brazil, the best team at that WC, but they navigated every round as they should have done. That's all you can do. England's obsession with beating the best and applauding 'heroic failure' in penalty shoot outs defeats or perceived injustices is part of the psyche but it holds them back. No one says 'sod playing Tunisia and Panama, bring on France and the Argies'. You get the run you're given.

Draw a line under the NL games and freshen up for the World Cup. I don't think England will win the tournament but they'll be playing the best XI and not fannying around with good-but-not-ready-yet players like Bowen, Gallagher, Justin, Tomori etc as they have done for these games.

 

[horseman]

No tin hat necessary. I think I'm in a minority who thinks Southgate is a pretty decent character to have in charge of the England team. Maybe because my emotional attachment to the national side is pretty mild (I'm happy when they do well, I shrug and move on when they don't) I see things differently to those who want to win every game and win it perfectly playing thrilling football. He has an approach and a philosophy. Everyone from Hoddle onwards has been 'throw the best English XI together and see what happens' and look where it's taken the national side.

I'll concede on the Italy final. At Wembley and with a less than stellar Italy side in front of them, he could have allowed his team to find an extra gear. Go for the 2-1 win and risk being caught on the break. His natural caution cost him on that occasion. In light of the crowd trouble, I have no qualms with Italy winning the shoot out.

That said, it got England to the final in the first place, something never achieved before at the Euros nor since 1966. Watch the extra time against Denmark and England were in absolute control of it. In that tournament, only against the up-for-it Scots and an appalling back pass from Sterling against Germany were England ringing the alarm bells. It was patient, methodical and - when it needed to be - ruthless. The last element has deserted them in the last four games.

The argument for weak or favourable draws is redundant to me. You don't choose who you come up against and can only beat what's in front of you. In 2002, a Germany side who had to go through the playoffs to qualify for the finals had a weak as P**s group of Ireland, Cameroon and Saudi Arabia (who they beat 8-0) and then a favourable run of Paraguay, USA and South Korea. They lost easily to Brazil, the best team at that WC, but they navigated every round as they should have done. That's all you can do. England's obsession with beating the best and applauding 'heroic failure' in penalty shoot outs defeats or perceived injustices is part of the psyche but it holds them back. No one says 'sod playing Tunisia and Panama, bring on France and the Argies'. You get the run you're given.

Draw a line under the NL games and freshen up for the World Cup. I don't think England will win the tournament but they'll be playing the best XI and not fannying around with good-but-not-ready-yet players like Bowen, Gallagher, Justin, Tomori etc as they have done for these games.

You could suggest that with the Nations League people get the games they crave for in World Cups, I don't think you can just dismiss the tournement or say tired players etc etc. I for one hope that those games have taught the coaching staff something, the gaping holes in midfield and often in and around our penalty area was a real concern.

The first game against Hungary was like the Austrian one of a year before, very sterile and so much so i turned off at half time, I remained with The Germany game because it was Germany and again we were rather fortunate. Italy was just like both the Austrian and first Hungarian game and possibly worse, we were devoid of ideas and often exposed by a virtual Italian 2nd string. in all 3 games prior to last evening we were exposed time and again, last evening once Hungary realised tey didn't need to play for 0-0 or nick 1 goal and went for the jugular we were yet again exposed and on the end of what a France or Brazil etc would do to us playing like that.

I believe we have just 3 players who have scored more than 5 goals in our current squad added to clear defensive issues has to be a cause for major concern.

it's fine the fringe players getting minutes against the minnows but what did we learn about them against the likes of Germany and Italy playing the way we did.

 

[Bath Yellow]

Harry Kane, world class striker !!!. Crap. Should have been booked for another one of his blatant dives, did nothing all the game. England. Far from good enough,

 

[Osei Yaw]

I just don't see the benefit to changing manager now. This team is very much Southgate's blueprint so anyone else parachuting in will have 2 games to change it before the real deal. Who would you even bring in?

Don't get me wrong, I would love Southgate to take the handbrake off a little and I agree the Italians were there for the taking last year. The lack of subs still baffles me now, but his record in tournament football is better than many of his predecessors. Plus, he's a really nice chap who is a proper role model to many in society.

 

[werthersoriginal]

I just don't see the benefit to changing manager now. This team is very much Southgate's blueprint so anyone else parachuting in will have 2 games to change it before the real deal. Who would you even bring in?

Don't get me wrong, I would love Southgate to take the handbrake off a little and I agree the Italians were there for the taking last year. The lack of subs still baffles me now, but his record in tournament football is better than many of his predecessors. Plus, he's a really nice chap who is a proper role model to many in society.

Surely his record in tournament football is better than nearly all his predecessors? WC semi and Euros final. But if our Euros penalty had gone in you'd still get people saying 'Oh he may have won the Euros, our first tournament success since 1966, but ...'.

 

[RyanioBirdio]

Who would you even bring in?

 

[battman]

Surely his record in tournament football is better than nearly all his predecessors? WC semi and Euros final. But if our Euros penalty had gone in you'd still get people saying 'Oh he may have won the Euros, our first tournament success since 1966, but ...'.

I can totally get this, but there will come a point that any manager would have outstayed their welcome. Like even Sir Alf Ramsey stayed in the job too long to the detriment of the England side. After winning the World Cup he was untouchable, even after losing quarter-finals in the 1970 World Cup and 1972 Euros. And then in 1974, England failed to qualify for the World Cup.

I'm not saying that it'll get that bad for Southgate, but I think this World Cup in Qatar should be his last, having led us through 3 tournaments. After the last few games it's clear that the team needs something new, and a fresh attacking impetus with the quality we have going forward.

 

[Thomas/Brock/Jones]

I can totally get this, but there will come a point that any manager would have outstayed their welcome. Like even Sir Alf Ramsey stayed in the job too long to the detriment of the England side. After winning the World Cup he was untouchable, even after losing quarter-finals in the 1970 World Cup and 1972 Euros. And then in 1974, England failed to qualify for the World Cup.

I'm not saying that it'll get that bad for Southgate, but I think this World Cup in Qatar should be his last, having led us through 3 tournaments. After the last few games it's clear that the team needs something new, and a fresh attacking impetus with the quality we have going forward.

Think you can't compare qualification for World Cup as extremely tough in the past while almost impossible not to now .
We have an extremely talented bunch of attacking players but Southgate does prefer the cautious approach which has probably been his undoing.
As for the tournaments you can only play those in front of you and while not especially tough still noteworthy success in the tournaments.
Dreadful performances but if it comes good again in the World Cup then quickly forgotten .
I'm not a fan of his but he deserves this World Cup but then see .

 

[Sarge]

the way I see it England weren't , err, Hungary enough last night , whereas the opposition were

 

[tonyw]

Think you can't compare qualification for World Cup as extremely tough in the past while almost impossible not to now .

Tell that to the Italians!
World Cup qualification hasn't actually gotten that much easier over the years. There's 13 spots available now to teams from UEFA - back in 1974, there were only 9.5
But at the same time, then you had Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union playing as single teams, whereas now the likes of Serbia & Croatia are good enough to qualify independently.......although I suppose there were two German teams back then......

It's maybe slightly easier (and will get slightly more easier in 2026, when I think it's going up to 16 UEFA teams) but it's not a colossal difference from how it used to be.

The Euros on the other hand are now almost impossible to miss.

 

[tonyw]

The worry about last night wasn't so much that we got humped by an earnest but average Hungary side in a glorified friendly tournament.
Even if it is going to be a bit embarassing when we get relegated into Group B for the next tournament and have to play Georgia & Kazakhstan instead of Italy & Germany - and it probably will also mean we're a lower seed and get a tougher draw for the Euro qualifiers, possibly without a playoff lifeline if we somehow ****ed up the qualifying group.

The worry is that in a year we've gone from looking like an efficient and dangerous side to an utterly toothless one. And we've now only got two more games (vs. Italy and Germany to finish off the Nations League group in September) before the World Cup starts to try and rediscover our mojo. There are zero pre-World Cup friendlies this year because the tournament starts a week after the Premier League pauses.

So Southgate has very little time with his players to turn the ship around and rediscover a team and a style that works.
Because of how well we've done in the last two tournaments, it should go without saying that he deserves to stay in position through the World Cup. But whilst I still think we'll get out of an easy group, one slip up could see us playing the Dutch in the last 16. And despite also having a long hard season, they've scored 11 goals and gained 10 points in their four games this month, including absolutely battering Belgium!

 

[Thomas/Brock/Jones]

Tell that to the Italians!
World Cup qualification hasn't actually gotten that much easier over the years. There's 13 spots available now to teams from UEFA - back in 1974, there were only 9.5
But at the same time, then you had Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union playing as single teams, whereas now the likes of Serbia & Croatia are good enough to qualify independently.......although I suppose there were two German teams back then......

It's maybe slightly easier (and will get slightly more easier in 2026, when I think it's going up to 16 UEFA teams) but it's not a colossal difference from how it used to be.

The Euros on the other hand are now almost impossible to miss.

Its got massively easier . 1974 a three team group of England, Poland, Wales only one qualifies . No play off . Poland came 3rd in the main tournament.
1978 Italy , England , Luxembourg, Finland yes only one qualifies . England failed on goal difference!
Italy had to blow up massively not to qualify not once but twice this time.

 

[captainox]

Whoever was in charge would have used these games to experiment in the absence of any proper friendlies.
The fact these games are being played now is a joke - 4 games in 10 days after the end of the club season. Kane's 62nd game of the season, Saka's 52nd etc. There's no wonder a number of them looked like they were going through the motions.

Since Southgate took over it has been breeze WC qualification and get to semi, get to Nations League final, breeze Euro qualifying and then get to final then breeze WC qualifying. How can that be criticised? In that time we’ve seen Italy fail to qualify for two, Dutch miss a tournament, France get relegated from Nations league etc.
We lose a couple of stupid games that shouldn’t even be happening and he gets a worse reaction than any England manager I can remember since McLaren vs Croatia. No-one is fussed about games between tournaments unless it's going badly. If it goes well, it's the whole "it's only San Marino" etc. Guarantee there were a large number of people who didn't even realise England were playing last night until they started seeing the score on social media/through group chat messages etc.

I'd rather a wake up call now than the September games where hopefully he'll pick a side closer to the world cup starting team.

 

[Foley]

Harry Kane, world class striker !!!. Crap. Should have been booked for another one of his blatant dives, did nothing all the game. England. Far from good enough,

Of course Harry Kane is a world class striker.
His stats back that up big time. But it doesn't mean that he will play well and score in every game.
Even yesterday he had virtually no service but was closest to scoring with a header that hit the crossbar