Due diligence

What due diligence could have foreseen not being able to shift all of Ndong, Cattermole, Oviedo, Djilobodji & McGeady in the previous transfer window? Of those, 2 are AWOL, one is injured & one is 33 and well past his best. They're in a tight spot financially but due diligence is not to blame.
 
If you were doing due diligence, you would have factored in the wages of those players - you can't assume that you will get rid of them. In fact, given that they were/are reportedly on Prem wages, you'd have to find a Prem club willing to have them to match that - and given their performance it was always possible they would refuse to leave to a lower division and take the wage cut that was likely to entail!
 
The problem is not one of due diligence but of naivity. With parachute payments being set aside to cover the purchase price, Sunderland needed to be getting transfer fees and massively reducing the wage bill in order to cover operating costs. With SD being good for around £15m, Satori putting in £3m and Charlie with little more than a pair of red chinos to his name, someone may have to find a deeper pocket or two - especially if promotion is not guaranteed. A shame for SD, but mildly amusing for all others involved.
 
Didn't our chum chaz do the due diligence at SAFC ?
Wasn't he the person doing the due diligence for Santori at Oxford ?

I wonder if there is a rift between the duo if this is classed as incompetence, what someone says in public might be slightly different behind closed doors.
 
LondonRoader said:
Didn't our chum chaz do the due diligence at SAFC ?
Wasn't he the person doing the due diligence for Santori at Oxford ?

I wonder if there is a rift between the duo if this is classed as incompetence, what someone says in public might be slightly different behind closed doors.
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Again. This has nothing to do with due diligence! The contract status of the players was not a secret. So unfortunately, it doesn't look like your ol' mucker Charles screwed up in this regard.

They may have been optimistic in their plan to shift the big earning players but they got rid of Kone and Rodwell. They accepted numerous bids for the AWOL lads who got greedy. Oviedo had a good WC so surprised he hasn't gone. They must have realized Cattermole is a lost cause.

Worst case, they will have to sell some of their talented youngsters - Asoro went to Swansea for £2m. I'm sure Honeyman, Gooch, Maja, Mumba, Embleton etc could be cashed in.

However, Satori got his 20% for a VERY discounted price and is seriously wedged. I'm sure Stuart sleeps well at night...
 
Navegante said:
Again. This has nothing to do with due diligence! The contract status of the players was not a secret. So unfortunately, it doesn't look like your ol' mucker Charles screwed up in this regard.

They may have been optimistic in their plan to shift the big earning players but they got rid of Kone and Rodwell. They accepted numerous bids for the AWOL lads who got greedy. Oviedo had a good WC so surprised he hasn't gone. They must have realized Cattermole is a lost cause.

Worst case, they will have to sell some of their talented youngsters - Asoro went to Swansea for £2m. I'm sure Honeyman, Gooch, Maja, Mumba, Embleton etc could be cashed in.

However, Satori got his 20% for a VERY discounted price and is seriously wedged. I'm sure Stuart sleeps well at night...
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Looking at that post you are obviously very much in the scene of what's happening up there, I see you put an optimistic spin on the situation so I wonder why SD went to press !

So Santori has a 5th of the business for £3m, as this was a business venture I wonder how much more they will have to offer him to release more money to keep them going.
 
Due Diligence was lacking in terms of underestimating the likelihood of players staying and the financial impact to the business. Did the owners push enough to get the premier league players out? Did they consistently speak to the agents of Ndong, etc, or moan about agents in the press?

In some respects, they didn't do the due diligence and were naive. To an extent it's understandable with the timelines of the deal, but it has made the money side more of a nightmare than perhaps it needed to be. Clubs managed to shift the resident bad eggs like Marvin Johnson if they really wanted them gone.
 
LondonRoader said:
Looking at that post you are obviously very much in the scene of what's happening up there, I see you put an optimistic spin on the situation so I wonder why SD went to press !
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I don't have an agenda against the minority shareholder and former poster of this esteemed forum. So perhaps I'm able to view the events slightly more neutrally?
 
Result of a poor DD or not, it’s still an awful lot of committed expenditure that should have been identified at the negotiating stage. On top of this did we not read that there was also a further £10m required that was not accounted for regarding outstanding payments to other clubs for players? It has no influence on what happens at OUFC, but it is interesting that these figures would have been more than enough to have purchased the stadium and the club, something that lifelong supporters would surely have been happy to do.
 
Navegante said:
Again. This has nothing to do with due diligence! The contract status of the players was not a secret. So unfortunately, it doesn't look like your ol' mucker Charles screwed up in this regard.

They may have been optimistic in their plan to shift the big earning players but they got rid of Kone and Rodwell. They accepted numerous bids for the AWOL lads who got greedy. Oviedo had a good WC so surprised he hasn't gone. They must have realized Cattermole is a lost cause.

Worst case, they will have to sell some of their talented youngsters - Asoro went to Swansea for £2m. I'm sure Honeyman, Gooch, Maja, Mumba, Embleton etc could be cashed in.

However, Satori got his 20% for a VERY discounted price and is seriously wedged. I'm sure Stuart sleeps well at night...
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The buying of club is to be covered by future parachute payments and/or promotion, and the operating costs were to be covered by selling off the assets and reducing the wage bill. Both perfectly reasonable business plans but both pretty risky. If they get through January without clearing the big earners and drop down a few places in the league, SD might have a few sleepless nights!
 
Jerome'SAle said:
Nothing to do with the diligence. Pull the agendas off the barbies now lads theyre done.
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I'm no fan of the Chinos Kid, but think that the finances of a team in our league (with the connections of SD etc) is worthy of comment - especially in light of our own financial stability being questioned. You are right that players contracts would not be part of the due diligence process, but they would have been clearly known and it was always going to be optimistic to offload all the high earners. It shows a little naivity which could come back to bite all involved. The infamous DE quote that the deal to buy Oxford was not in the club's best interests (due to delays or other details) was mocked by many. But maybe the naivity shown at Sunderland could explain DE's concerns. All guesswork of course, but worthy of comment with or without attached agendas.
 
Navegante said:
I don't have an agenda against the minority shareholder and former poster of this esteemed forum. So perhaps I'm able to view the events slightly more neutrally?
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I can’t see where I have said you had an agenda, you just put some of the stuff on here that I’m not sure is in the public arena, how do you know that the agents got greedy without an inside line?
 
Scotchegg said:
You are right that players contracts would not be part of the due diligence process, but they would have been clearly known and it was always going to be optimistic to offload all the high earners. It shows a little naivity which could come back to bite all involved. The infamous DE quote that the deal to buy Oxford was not in the club's best interests (due to delays or other details) was mocked by many. But maybe the naivity shown at Sunderland could explain DE's concerns. All guesswork of course, but worthy of comment with or without attached agendas.
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Of course the players' contracts should have been part of the due diligence - you check everything.

DE's statement was from a seller's point of view (I know you're hazy on substance but you do recall that he was (not) selling the club to Sartori, right?). Which means what you say is gibberish - it's the buyer who does due diligence; all the seller is concerned about is getting the cash.

Dear oh dear. I know you're in the rabid rebuttal squad, but do try to take a breath before your knee jerks.
 
PC said:
Of course the players' contracts should have been part of the due diligence - you check everything.

DE's statement was from a seller's point of view (I know you're hazy on substance but you do recall that he was (not) selling the club to Sartori, right?). Which means what you say is gibberish - it's the buyer who does due diligence; all the seller is concerned about is getting the cash.

Dear oh dear. I know you're in the rabid rebuttal squad, but do try to take a breath before your knee jerks.
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I think it is pretty clear that SD and Charlie were heavily involved in the Satori bid, and Satori is now involved at Sunderland. It is not unreasonable to therefore draw connections between the two deals even if only from a speculative point of view, and consequently worth mentioning on here (outside of agendas either way).

As for the due diligence process here, you will also recall that DE ultimately pulled out of the sale and I merely suggested that any concerns now been played out at Sunderland may have caused DE concerns for Oxford. Of course this could also be total gibberish!

And you are right that the players contracts would have been known which is why I suggested it was optimistic and naive to not consider what would happen if they couldn't offload a few more. I think it was also naive to dismiss the role of agents at the point of the takeover as they are a necessary evil when bringing players in or getting rid.

But as Hawk stated, I am more interested in what is happening at Oxford even if it would be fun to see Charles a little less smug in the coming months!
 
Witney Wag said:
It would appear that whoever did the due diligence for Donald/Methven failed to dig deep enough.

https://www.sunderlandecho.com/spor...y-transfer-window-will-be-challenge-1-9340946

I’m sure Tiger was more diligent when buying OUFC.
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Not sure about the due diligent commentvas they were aware of it, but haven’t been able to offload two players on high salaries.

I guess they’re trying to manage the fans expectations or trying to force the fans to put pressure on these two or what clubs will want for players if & when they do request a player etc.

Put it this way, I wouldn’t mind a £11m players wage bill!!
 
ZeroTheHero said:
If you were doing due diligence, you would have factored in the wages of those players - you can't assume that you will get rid of them. In fact, given that they were/are reportedly on Prem wages, you'd have to find a Prem club willing to have them to match that - and given their performance it was always possible they would refuse to leave to a lower division and take the wage cut that was likely to entail!
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So would have known about!
 
Gary Baldi said:
Due Diligence was lacking in terms of underestimating the likelihood of players staying and the financial impact to the business. Did the owners push enough to get the premier league players out? Did they consistently speak to the agents of Ndong, etc, or moan about agents in the press?

In some respects, they didn't do the due diligence and were naive. To an extent it's understandable with the timelines of the deal, but it has made the money side more of a nightmare than perhaps it needed to be. Clubs managed to shift the resident bad eggs like Marvin Johnson if they really wanted them gone.
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What a load of tosh!
 
Scotchegg said:
I'm no fan of the Chinos Kid, but think that the finances of a team in our league (with the connections of SD etc) is worthy of comment - especially in light of our own financial stability being questioned. You are right that players contracts would not be part of the due diligence process, but they would have been clearly known and it was always going to be optimistic to offload all the high earners. It shows a little naivity which could come back to bite all involved. The infamous DE quote that the deal to buy Oxford was not in the club's best interests (due to delays or other details) was mocked by many. But maybe the naivity shown at Sunderland could explain DE's concerns. All guesswork of course, but worthy of comment with or without attached agendas.
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Really!
 
Scotchegg said:
As for the due diligence process here, you will also recall that DE ultimately pulled out of the sale and I merely suggested that any concerns now been played out at Sunderland may have caused DE concerns for Oxford. Of course this could also be total gibberish!
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Oh god. No they wouldn't. Eales pulled out because he got the sniff of a more personally lucrative offer (in the best interests of the club, my a**e) while Sartori was doing due diligence. Eales pulling out had nothing to do with due diligence except that somebody else was doing it on what he was selling.

Erm, Sartori (with or without SD's help) was doing diligence on OUFC when Eales blew him out. SD (with or without Sartori's help) seems to have overlooked or taken a risk he may find he regrets.

Slippery had no concerns about due diligence, all he was interested in was the same as Ellis whatnot - getting shot of the liability with as little loss / much profit as possible.
 
Scotchegg said:
I'm no fan of the Chinos Kid, but think that the finances of a team in our league (with the connections of SD etc) is worthy of comment - especially in light of our own financial stability being questioned. You are right that players contracts would not be part of the due diligence process, but they would have been clearly known and it was always going to be optimistic to offload all the high earners. It shows a little naivity which could come back to bite all involved. The infamous DE quote that the deal to buy Oxford was not in the club's best interests (due to delays or other details) was mocked by many. But maybe the naivity shown at Sunderland could explain DE's concerns. All guesswork of course, but worthy of comment with or without attached agendas.
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Why did Eales go back to Sartori etc for more money if they weren’t the right people for the club?
 
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