International News Donald Trump 🍊🇺🇸

[Eric Blair]

Eric I swear to God I’m going to f*****g prolapse if you carry on.

Sorry Ryan. He’s the hero we need for these troubled times.

 

[Wandering Yellow]

Actually @Scotchegg and @QR in coalition

If this happened I would emigrate. The southern tip of New Zealand or Ushuaia, whatever is further away.

 

[Wandering Yellow]

Also there isn’t just one type of socialism. I’d put myself down as a social democrat - higher taxes to pay for services we all need. To say socialism (or social democracy) doesn’t work is to ignore most of the Nordic countries

This has to be one of the laziest myths out there and is debunked by even people on the left. There is basically an entire genre of YouTube video debunking supposed Scandi-socialism.

Nordic Countries Aren’t Actually Socialist

Denmark, Norway, and Sweden shouldn’t be held up as socialist utopias.

foreignpolicy.com

Edit: I would just like to add, and I'm sure I'll be ridiculed for this but I want to mention it, that I have friends in Gothenburg who are not happy with Sweden and tell me there is strong discontent. Inflation and cultural issues seem to be some extent even a bigger problem for them than us. You can't claim high taxes = socialist, that just reveals a limited knowledge of political theory.

Norway is a different kettle of fish and incomparable due to oil. Norway must be smart because they're not in the EU. Denmark, I'll admit I have less information on.

 

[Wandering Yellow]

It isn't just the right who get a rebust argument on here, the left do as well. I don't think you were on here when a poster called YellowTaxi (I think) was posting a lot of far left views around the time of the GE that Corbyn fought, they received some strong arguments as well. The reason you perceive an imbalance is because there isn't much of an active Left on here.

Apart from QR, and Scotch, and Big Ron, and Eric, and Marston Road, and pretty much everyone on here!

 

[m]

This has to be one of the laziest myths out there and is debunked by even people on the left. There is basically an entire genre of YouTube video debunking supposed Scandi-socialism.

Nordic Countries Aren’t Actually Socialist

Denmark, Norway, and Sweden shouldn’t be held up as socialist utopias.

foreignpolicy.com

Edit: I would just like to add, and I'm sure I'll be ridiculed for this but I want to mention it, that I have friends in Gothenburg who are not happy with Sweden and tell me there is strong discontent. Inflation and cultural issues seem to be some extent even a bigger problem for them than us. You can't claim high taxes = socialist, that just reveals a limited knowledge of political theory.

Norway is a different kettle of fish and incomparable due to oil. Norway must be smart because they're not in the EU. Denmark, I'll admit I have less information on.

It must be great being anti-socialism. Whenever it works play the "That wasn't real socialism" card.

 

[Wandering Yellow]

It must be great being anti-socialism. Whenever it works play the "That wasn't real socialism" card.

I am anti-socialist because I'm pro-freedom. If people in this country had had to suffer under socialism in the same way a Venezuelan had they would no longer think it so cool to describe themselves as socialist.

By the way smartypants, the dictionary definition of socialism is: a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

So yes, Sweden, or any Nordic country, is not real socialism.

It seems many people on here who describe themselves as socialists are really just liberal-minded people who believe in regulated capitalism.

 

[m]

I am anti-socialist because I'm pro-freedom. If people in this country had had to suffer under socialism in the same way a Venezualan had they would no longer think it so cool to describe themselves as socialist.

By the way smartypants, the dictionary definition of socialism is: a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

So yes, Sweden, or any Nordic country, is not real socialism.

It seems many people on here who describe themselves as socialists are really just liberal-minded people who believe in regulated capitalism.

Well I'm sure you know best.

 

[Wandering Yellow]

Well I'm sure you know best.

I've studied history enough to know trying to create a socialist society never ends well.

History repeats itself because nobody listens. Every generation seems to think socialism is "cool", it's like humans have to suffer under it to realise it's bad rather than letting history do the talking.

As I say, wanting a high-tax economy with well-run public services is NOT the same as being socialist. It is depressing how many humans have suffered under Marxist and Leninist ideologies, yet so many proudly declare themselves socialists. I don't get it.

 

[Wandering Yellow]

Well I'm sure you know best.

And thank you for the compliment x

 

[Scotchegg]

I've studied history enough to know trying to create a socialist society never ends well.

History repeats itself because nobody listens. Every generation seems to think socialism is "cool", it's like humans have to suffer under it to realise it's bad rather than letting history do the talking.

As I say, wanting a high-tax economy with well-run public services is NOT the same as being socialist. It is depressing how many humans have suffered under Marxist and Leninist ideologies, yet so many proudly declare themselves socialists. I don't get it.

Who is declaring themselves socialists?

 

[Wandering Yellow]

Who is declaring themselves socialists?

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/blogs/new-poll-finds-strong-support-for-socialism-in-the-uk Seems UK has a huge number of people who consider themselves socialist.

I regularly see banners around work of people calling for a socialist intifada. I'm not sure how many could define either word.

 

[m]

I've studied history enough to know trying to create a socialist society never ends well.

History repeats itself because nobody listens. Every generation seems to think socialism is "cool", it's like humans have to suffer under it to realise it's bad rather than letting history do the talking.

As I say, wanting a high-tax economy with well-run public services is NOT the same as being socialist. It is depressing how many humans have suffered under Marxist and Leninist ideologies, yet so many proudly declare themselves socialists. I don't get it.

it's a good thing that no-one has ever suffered under any of the capitalist ideologies then.

 

[Wandering Yellow]

it's a good thing that no-one has ever suffered under any of the capitalist ideologies then.

Of course people have. No system is perfect.

Capitalism in different forms is estimated to have brought 1 billion people out of poverty over the last 20 years.

Give me a capitalist society over a socialist society any day of the week. I'd rather be a poor person in a capitalist society than a normal person in a socialist one. I would still enjoy a better quality of life.

 

[MattyGreensLeftBoot]

"prefer to spend money on socialism"? WTAF

On a finite tax budget Europe has chosen to spend on healthcare and benefits. The US spends well north of 3% of GDP on defence they spend less tax dollars on welfare and health. Two thirds of NATO doesn't hit that woeful target of 2%. https://news.sky.com/story/amp/nato...g-threats-with-or-without-us-support-13069871 those countries that don't are doing the equivalent of leaving the keys in the ignition of the car with the engine running over night and probably deserve to be invaded and loose there freedom as they weren't prepared to pay to defend it.

 

[Scotchegg]

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/blogs/new-poll-finds-strong-support-for-socialism-in-the-uk Seems UK has a huge number of people who consider themselves socialist.

I regularly see banners around work of people calling for a socialist intifada. I'm not sure how many could define either word.

View attachment 17802

You talk about extreme socialist views and refer to Venezuela and others, but then you use figures from a survey that asks if someone is a capitalist, socialist, communist or facist to provide huge support for this extremist view.

Unsurprisingly, this survey shows that there is a pretty even balance between those with the very generic capitalist and socialist views, with significantly fewer sharing communist or facist views. Hardly the rebirth of the Nazi party!!

And displaying a banner doesn'tmean that the country are flocking behind the "socialist intifada" movement. I was running the London Marathon and saw someone holding a sign that said "If this was easy it would be your mum!" I didn't assume that they were somehow speaking for the nation!!

And the Socialist Party that is responsible for these banners had 300 members nationally as of 2022. Hardly a huge number!

 

[SteMerritt]

Apart from QR, and Scotch, and Big Ron, and Eric, and Marston Road, and pretty much everyone on here!

Being to the left of you doesn't make someone a lefty.

 

[SteMerritt]

On a finite tax budget Europe has chosen to spend on healthcare and benefits

Yes, because all taxes are spent on defense, healthcare, or benefits. Absolutely nothing else. And all spending other than defense is "socialist".

Perhaps if certain countries spent less on war and more on health this world would be a better place.

 

[QR]

You can't claim high taxes = socialist, that just reveals a limited knowledge of political theory.

I'm not sure anyone has so you are arguing with yourself. If this was so then we currently have a socialist right wing Tory government!

 

[Sheik djibouti]

Yes, because all taxes are spent on defense, healthcare, or benefits. Absolutely nothing else. And all spending other than defense is "socialist".

Perhaps if certain countries spent less on war and more on health this world would be a better place.

And now the prospective Presidential candidate for the GOP is bitching that other countries (free, democratic, independent countries) have chosen not to follow the American spending model. A model lest we forget that we borne out of the US post second world war desire to police the world (their words) and partly out cold war paranoia.

Are we all supposed to be grateful and forever in debt to the US for their "protection", or is this an obligation they created for themselves and has in part been exacerbated by their own approach to foreign policy for most of the last 8 decades?

 

[Eric Blair]

I've studied history enough to know trying to create a socialist society never ends well.

History repeats itself because nobody listens. Every generation seems to think socialism is "cool", it's like humans have to suffer under it to realise it's bad rather than letting history do the talking.

As I say, wanting a high-tax economy with well-run public services is NOT the same as being socialist. It is depressing how many humans have suffered under Marxist and Leninist ideologies, yet so many proudly declare themselves socialists. I don't get it.

Just for the record I wouldn’t describe myself as a socialist but as a social democrat