International News Black Lives Matter

[dannyc]

Too simplistic and you need to look at the inherent racial inequalities that have manifested themselves as a result. You cannot ignore one to deal with the other, it doesn't work like that.

It seems to for blm and thier supporters etc.

 

[Marked Ox]

Because hundreds of millions of years of animal development have passed by now and in every structure there is a hierarchy. Humanity has characterized by a structure of haves and have nots since inception.

The concept of hierarchy is burned into our DNA and the DNA of every organism on this planet.

Doesn't mean it has to be accepted and we can work to improve everybody's lot. We as a species did after all learn to farm and work metal etc etc and the level of learning by our species does differentiate our species after all.

 

[Essexyellows]

So it is poverty (real or perceived) that is the core driver of the problem.
From that you get poor education, more criminality.
As highlighted by others doesn`t matter if you are a white, ginger Glaswegian or a black, Afro-caribbean Londoner......

We are back to all lives matter then.

 

[Marked Ox]

Since the 90's we have doubled the numbers in prison without doing anything to reduce crime. The Tony Blair promise on "tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime" failed massively on the second part. Criminality and a broken society cost us innocent tax payers billions every year without any chance of success. So why not pay a little bit more to fix the problem now and save future generations?

It might not make the front pages of the Daily Mail, but if we put real investment into mental health services at all levels then we would reduce crime, suicide and self harm. If we invest properly in our broken communities to give real opportunities to all, we reduce crime. If we review education and make it about the needs of the individual rather than a one size fits all approach, then we create school leavers more skilled and prepared for employment. This generates more tax and reduces dependency on the state. If we use prison only for those who really need it, we drop the population by half overnight and can focus on the offending behaviour work, rehab and resettlement work that genuinely changes lives. If we review our drugs policy, provide treatment and care to get people off drugs rather than criminalise them, we actually save money and lives.

This sounds left wing rubbish to those who have no counter argument, but it works. Invest now, save later. Sadly there are far too many selfish people who are happy to see others suffer if they enjoy their little comforts.

Unfortunately, that would involve joined up, long term thinking which politicians/Govts aren't willing to do either as the initiators or continuers

 

[bashamwonderland]

Doesn't mean it has to be accepted and we can work to improve everybody's lot. We as a species did after all learn to farm and work metal etc etc and the level of learning by our species does differentiate our species after all.

Well society would need to think very carefully before we start to attempt to mess with nature's design. We tried it 100 years ago and tens of millions died as a result.

As above, we don't have to accept gross inequalities and people need to be comfortable at the bottom of the hierarchy - that's acceptable and desirable. But it seems like whenever EY mentions the fact that hierarchies exist people seem to suggest that they shouldn't. But the argument doesn't make sense to me because it flies in the face of the whole concept of life on Earth.

 

[Wandering Yellow]

So it is poverty (real or perceived) that is the core driver of the problem.
From that you get poor education, more criminality.
As highlighted by others doesn`t matter if you are a white, ginger Glaswegian or a black, Afro-caribbean Londoner......

We are back to all lives matter then.

I've tried to make this exact point many times on this thread.

 

[Scotchegg]

So it is poverty (real or perceived) that is the core driver of the problem.
From that you get poor education, more criminality.
As highlighted by others doesn`t matter if you are a white, ginger Glaswegian or a black, Afro-caribbean Londoner......

We are back to all lives matter then.

Yes, poverty and social inequalities are the driver. But many of the poorest communities also have the largest BAME populations so there is a clear link between the two.

Then when we add in the bias/stereotypes that all knife crime and drug gangs are part of the same population and we have many more barriers that prevent people from improving their lives.

 

[Paul Cannell]

I've tried to make this exact point many times on this thread.

And the answer is the same. Non-white lives (I posted statistics on employment and I think health to back this up, other have described social and legal/police differences) are harder, more painful and less rewarding or comfortable than native white british ones. Therefore BLM or any movement that expresses this state of affairs and attempts legally to even things up is good. I take the knee Milords.

 

[dannyc]

And the answer is the same. Non-white lives (I posted statistics on employment and I think health to back this up, other have described social and legal/police differences) are harder, more painful and less rewarding or comfortable than native white british ones. Therefore BLM or any movement that expresses this state of affairs and attempts legally to even things up is good. I take the knee Milords.

You obviously have never lived in very poor areas all you go on about is stats I grew up in poor areas myself and can tell you we all struggled skin colour didn't come into it.

 

[Paul Cannell]

As usual, you are quite wrong. However I won't play the yorkshireman joke with someone born with only a vestigial brain. Have a lovely day.

 

[dannyc]

As usual, you are quite wrong. However I won't play the yorkshireman joke with someone born with only a vestigial brain. Have a lovely day.

Good I don't want you replying to me anyways.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

You obviously have never lived in very poor areas all you go on about is stats I grew up in poor areas myself and can tell you we all struggled skin colour didn't come into it.

Danny.

Can you at least accept that you're own personal experience is just that and nobody else's?

Whilst I am sure it is factual, it is no less factual than the countless examples and real, lived experiences of those where race and ethnic background IS a factor.

And maybe by improving those cases, the cases of those growing up as you did will reduce into the bargain.

 

[Wandering Yellow]

Good I don't want you replying to me anyways.

Paul is a really tolerant and understanding man.

Unless someone disagrees with him, in which case they need counselling or have a vestigial brain.

Our experiences being from poor, mixed-ethnic areas mean nothing Danny. Black people are oppressed, even if they themselves don't think they are oppressed, and they'll pepper us with selective studies to prove their point.

Of course, white kids of FSM perform terribly in school, and access higher education less than any other group, and all the true evidence points to the fact poverty and cultural issues are the most important factor in success, not inherent racism in the UK, but let's ignore that.

Black people are all oppressed, and their moral saviours on this forum will never stop fighting for what they think they need.

 

[Paul Cannell]

Of course, white kids of FSM perform terribly in school, and access higher education less than any other group, and all the true evidence points to the fact poverty and cultural issues are the most important factor in success, not inherent racism in the UK, but let's ignore that.

Actually, the government data I posted agreed that "white kids of FSM perform terribly in school, and access higher education less than any other group". It then made the point that native-descended white kids were more likely to be employed than those of the following heritages: Indians, Pakistani/Bangladeshis, Africans, West Indians, other white groups and iirc Chinese/Far East.

I agree that poverty is the most important factor in success overall, but not being white makes you more likely to be in poverty. What are cultural issues?

With regard to your needing therapy, you were behaving very erratically at the time prior to my expression of friendly concern; you seem to have calmed down a little, which is good.

 

[m]

Paul is a really tolerant and understanding man.

Unless someone disagrees with him, in which case they need counselling or have a vestigial brain.

Our experiences being from poor, mixed-ethnic areas mean nothing Danny. Black people are oppressed, even if they themselves don't think they are oppressed, and they'll pepper us with selective studies to prove their point.

Of course, white kids of FSM perform terribly in school, and access higher education less than any other group, and all the true evidence points to the fact poverty and cultural issues are the most important factor in success, not inherent racism in the UK, but let's ignore that.

Black people are all oppressed, and their moral saviours on this forum will never stop fighting for what they think they need.

You get very upset when people don't accept your life experience at face value.

Can you not accept that other people's life experience might be different to your own? That just because you didn't experience racism, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist?

 

[Wandering Yellow]

You get very upset when people don't accept your life experience at face value.

Can you not accept that other people's life experience might be different to your own? That just because you didn't experience racism, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist?

In one of my very first posts I said I did have racist comments made towards me and I've never ever claimed racism doesnt exist. Look through my posts.

All races can and do experience racism. Why there's a focus on "black lives" over, say "Asian lives" in the UK I have no idea.

And I also understand why people don't like aspects of BLM. I looked through the UK BLM twitter account the other day and there is some deeply questionable stuff on there, including at least two posts I consider overtly anti-semitic.

Kick it out and show racism the red card, absolutely. BLM? I'm not so sure. Its taken race relations backwards. Just look how its divided us on here. I think most of us would get on outside of this debate, its so emotive it seems to divide badly.

 

[Marked Ox]

Why there's a focus on "black lives" over, say "Asian lives" in the UK I have no idea.

Because that is the phrase that took off at the start after the US situation and which originally spread around the world. In this country and around the world it grew to encompass racism in general, not just the black community.

 

[Big Ron]

In one of my very first posts I said I did have racist comments made towards me and I've never ever claimed racism doesnt exist. Look through my posts.

All races can and do experience racism. Why there's a focus on "black lives" over, say "Asian lives" in the UK I have no idea.

And I also understand why people don't like aspects of BLM. I looked through the UK BLM twitter account the other day and there is some deeply questionable stuff on there, including at least two posts I consider overtly anti-semitic.

Kick it out and show racism the red card, absolutely. BLM? I'm not so sure. Its taken race relations backwards. Just look how its divided us on here. I think most of us would get on outside of this debate, its so emotive it seems to divide badly.

I’d taken a little break and looked in again - in spite of your many threats to leave, it seems you are still going round in circles.

i just thought I’d respond to your first comment here with an old quote from an earlier post - not edited or taken out of contex:


"There was obviously discrimination in my father's generation targetted at black people. That was wrong, we dealt with it as a society and moved on. Stop looking for problems and creating problems where there aren't any".

Hmmm, seems there are two Wandering Yellows. Maybe you could come back with a cheap unfunny about how I might choose to gender identify?

 

[gofish2]

Thats how they win tho.......by bullying. but they dont get it...........i actually got banned from here last month because the admin didnt like what i said....they didnt even give the actual reason,only stated that i had broken some rule or other.......i would love them to tell me what i said that upset them so much.

...........That you keep posting bile filled bollox???

 

[gofish2]

You obviously have never lived in very poor areas all you go on about is stats I grew up in poor areas myself and can tell you we all struggled skin colour didn't come into it.

I lived in a poor area too. East london in the 50's. I was lucky, I was white.