International News Black Lives Matter

Scotchegg

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Prior to recent events I would have argued that ALL lives matter and that any suggestion otherwise was simply playing the race card. However, the more I've seen of things happening in America, and reading the experiences of ethnic minorities both in the US and the UK I now believe that racism still exists in all aspects of society.

The vast majority of ethnic minorities in the UK live in the poorest communities, with the worst schools and limited opportunities to escape from this. Role models outside of sport and music are rare, and many families are broken.

A far greater proportion of those from these backgrounds end up in prison. People aren't born bad, so the environments they grow up in must contribute to the lifestyles people lead.

For too long, we see the actions of our ethnic minorities without taking any responsibility for what has created divisions. Tony Blair famously said "Tough on Crime, Tough on the Causes of Crime" but did absolutely nothing to address these issues.

Maybe it's time we took seriously the idea that Black Lives Matter, and accept that even in the 21st century the colour of your skin dramatically affects the opportunities open to you.
 

bashamwonderland

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Prior to recent events I would have argued that ALL lives matter and that any suggestion otherwise was simply playing the race card. However, the more I've seen of things happening in America, and reading the experiences of ethnic minorities both in the US and the UK I now believe that racism still exists in all aspects of society.

The vast majority of ethnic minorities in the UK live in the poorest communities, with the worst schools and limited opportunities to escape from this. Role models outside of sport and music are rare, and many families are broken.

A far greater proportion of those from these backgrounds end up in prison. People aren't born bad, so the environments they grow up in must contribute to the lifestyles people lead.

For too long, we see the actions of our ethnic minorities without taking any responsibility for what has created divisions. Tony Blair famously said "Tough on Crime, Tough on the Causes of Crime" but did absolutely nothing to address these issues.

Maybe it's time we took seriously the idea that Black Lives Matter, and accept that even in the 21st century the colour of your skin dramatically affects the opportunities open to you.

Is it the colour of your skin which dramatically affect the opportunities open to you, or it is your socio economic position which does that?

Black lives do matter, but Black Lives Matter as an organisation is a pretty appalling, far left US pressure group.

How many experiences of UK ethnic minorities have you read to come to the quite dramatic conclusion that "racism still exists in all aspects of society"?

This is an interesting topic but I don't think the racism here is comparable to US racism.
 

m

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Is it the colour of your skin which dramatically affect the opportunities open to you, or it is your socio economic position which does that?

Black lives do matter, but Black Lives Matter as an organisation is a pretty appalling, far left US pressure group.

How many experiences of UK ethnic minorities have you read to come to the quite dramatic conclusion that "racism still exists in all aspects of society"?

This is an interesting topic but I don't think the racism here is comparable to US racism.


I'm inclined to agree*. There are pockets within society and perhaps organisations which are deeply racist but these are a minority. Happily with each generation society as a whole seems to get less racist.

Socio-economic status seems to me to be a far greater inhibitor of opportunity than skin colour is in this country.

*I know little of the group Black Lives Matter apart from the obvious so won't comment on this
 

Sheik djibouti

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I'm inclined to agree*. There are pockets within society and perhaps organisations which are deeply racist but these are a minority. Happily with each generation society as a whole seems to get less racist.

Socio-economic status seems to me to be a far greater inhibitor of opportunity than skin colour is in this country.

*I know little of the group Black Lives Matter apart from the obvious so won't comment on this

Take a look at the government statistics on employment and ethnicity: https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures...pay-and-benefits/employment/employment/latest

There is a difference and it is not just socio-economic. In addition there are many organisations that publish their BAME statistics and for many, their employment record does not mirror the ethnic mix of society, particularly in some of the more senior and managerial roles.
 

bashamwonderland

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Take a look at the government statistics on employment and ethnicity: https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures...pay-and-benefits/employment/employment/latest

There is a difference and it is not just socio-economic. In addition there are many organisations that publish their BAME statistics and for many, their employment record does not mirror the ethnic mix of society, particularly in some of the more senior and managerial roles.

Ok so firstly, the statistics you posted a link to don't provide any evidence of racism whatsoever. They're just employment records?? It's as easy for those records to have been caused by socio economic reasons as it is to say that they arise because of skin colour.

Your second point is too generalised to be properly discussed but perfect representation of a particular demographic in society across the workplace is not evidence of prejudice against that group. To make that link you would have to break down the applicant base for jobs arising within that business and assess whether that represents society as a whole. Then you would have to ensure that the minority applicants have the same or better skills and applications than the white applicants and were still not being chosen.

It's a bit inflammatory and just not good enough to say that because a workplace does not mirror society, that it's evidence of racism.

I think nameless and genderless applications for jobs would do a good job in probing the level of racism and sexism which really exists in society, but I imagine there would not be a significant change.

People should be calling out racism and confronting it where it arises in society, not trying to shame or guilt all white people on social media for their own personal ego and 'likes'. I find that approach (adopted by BBC R1 and R1X, it would seem) to be quite shameful profiteering from this tragedy.
 

Sheik djibouti

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I didn't say that it was evidence of prejudice, that wasn't the point I was making and yes I agree with you that it is too generalised to make any assumptions - no attempt to be inflammatory here..

I'm just reflecting on the fact that the statistics on employment are clear and I would be interested to know why if you are from an ethnic minority you are more likely to be unemployed.

All for job applications being nameless, genderless, ethinicty-free and ageless - why shouldn't they be? The application and supporting information should speak for itself to at least get through the candidate selection process!
 

Essexyellows

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In the NHS all applications for posts have all personal data (name,age,gender etc) removed before they go to the recruiting panel.
The panel shortlists based on a points system reflecting the job description and person specification.
The panel then invites a number of candidates, normally 10-20, for interview (around 30-40% don`t book an interview).
At interview there is a further scoring criteria related to the interview, confidence, communication etc.
The panel then creates a list of 3 preferred candidates.
The Primary preferred candidate is offered the job.
If they decline then it goes to candidate 2 then 3.
If that doesn`t recruit then start again.

The opportunity for institutional racism/bias etc is removed at the first point. The panel could have all BAME candidates, or none.
Recruitment is based purely on completing the application form and matching the job description.

Opportunity to progress is then available to all, one guy who started the same week I did is still in his Band 2 role, perfectly happy with that.
However if you looked at both of us by racial profile it would indicate the White,British male has progressed and the British Indian male has not.
 

bashamwonderland

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I didn't say that it was evidence of prejudice, that wasn't the point I was making and yes I agree with you that it is too generalised to make any assumptions - no attempt to be inflammatory here..

I'm just reflecting on the fact that the statistics on employment are clear and I would be interested to know why if you are from an ethnic minority you are more likely to be unemployed.

All for job applications being nameless, genderless, ethinicty-free and ageless - why shouldn't they be? The application and supporting information should speak for itself to at least get through the candidate selection process!

All fair points there SD
 

Sheik djibouti

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Think I will just leave this here.
View attachment 3808
Can't agree more.

I was reading an article where someone made that point that NO lives matter until Black Lives matter.

At first I thought it was equally corny and inflammatory, but the more I thought about, the more I think it is bang on the money. Nobody matters more than anyone else, nobody other than abhorrent Supremicists of all colours and creeds are calling for anything but parity and transparency across the whole of society.

There can surely be no justifiable excuse for any other outcome.
 

bashamwonderland

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Less racist is still racist

Racism is still a problem and underplaying it by saying ‘oh it could be worse’ is a big part of the problem

Well that wasn't the argument I was making so I don't quite get your point, but I agree with your sentiment.
 

Essexyellows

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I`ll be honest, being of a certain age, I have probably seen and heard all the excuses for racism over the decades.
I can happily remember the LRT hurling vitriolic racist abuse at players and I & many others have joined in because it was part & parcel of life at the time.
That was 30+ years ago.
Equally I know & understand that people can, do and should change and evolve to be better human beings.
And that is what America needs to do.
How they do that is complex, but rioting and looting isn`t it.
 

Peterdev

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I think Trump should accept some of the blame for the fallout here.
He should have immediately made a statement that the police officers arrested will be dealt with and he stands firmly against racism.
instead he announces he will draft in more police to deal with what has happened, spiking the risk of riots throughout the USA.
I’m sorry, Donald, you’re a clown and have been ingesting too much bleach.
 

LondonRoader

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A black man is murdered in the US and there is worldwide outrage, with the racism issues being raised because of this crime.
Hundreds of black people are murdered/die in London, there's been little outrage, demonstrations it's almost feels accepted, why the difference?
If black lives matter, does the out cry only have to be on the racism platform.
 

SteMerritt

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A black man is murdered in the US and there is worldwide outrage, with the racism issues being raised because of this crime.
Hundreds of black people are murdered/die in London, there's been little outrage, demonstrations it's almost feels accepted, why the difference?
If black lives matter, does the out cry only have to be on the racism platform.
Seriously? You really have to ask?
 

Essexyellows

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Valid question TBH.
Black person kills other black person - nothing.
White policeman kills black person - chaos.

"Almost half of murder victims and murder suspects in the capital are young black men - way out of proportion to London's population, in which 13% are black. "

Black lives matter though?
 

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