National News Shamima Begum

chuckbert said:
So if I understand you correctly, you think that some of the people who unfortunately don’t respond to mental health treatment should be mildly tortured?
(Jeez, Britain’s become a charming place).
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No I said people that harm or kill children should be tortured because prison is still to good for them

oufc1991 said:
The people that should suffer torture is people who kill or harm children because a life in prison is still to good for scum like that
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oufc1991 said:
No I said people that harm or kill children should be tortured because prison is still to good for them
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What you are actually advocating for is torture for things you absolutely abhor. And yes in this case that the vast majority of people quite rightly abhor these actions too. The problem comes when you have people in incredible powerful positions who abhor people like you and me. Today we learn the ex secretary of state for Education abhors trade unions. In some countries Trade Union members and officials have been/are tortured.

It's a slippery slope no one should be on.
 
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As far as I'm concerned, normalising torture is barbaric and medieval in any circumstance, whether that be as some form of attempt to garner information or some kind of perverse punishment for (extreme) wrongdoing.

In particular, being willing to inflict pain and suffering as a punishment on those who have inflicted pain and suffering on others brings us down to their level, doesn't it?

Are we becoming angrier, more polarised and more vindictive as a society? Evidence to suggest we most certainly are in some circumstances....
 
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Sheik djibouti said:
As far as I'm concerned, normalising torture is barbaric and medieval in any circumstance, whether that be as some form of attempt to garner information or some kind of perverse punishment for (extreme) wrongdoing.

In particular, being willing to inflict pain and suffering as a punishment on those who have inflicted pain and suffering on others brings us down to their level, doesn't it?

Are we becoming angrier, more ploarised and more vindictive as a society? Evidence to suggest we most certainly are in some circumstances....
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Could be that those views have always been held but people feel more able to voice them after recent events, rightly or wrongly.
 
chuckbert said:
So if I understand you correctly, you think that some of the people who unfortunately don’t respond to mental health treatment should be mildly tortured?
(Jeez, Britain’s become a charming place).
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The poster you're responding to apparently works in mental health - whatever that means - which makes their comments even more concerning. A different poster is advocating torture if a suspect refuses to tell the police what they want to know. Fortunately most posters on this forum don't share such attitudes.
 
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Pete Burrett said:
The poster you're responding to apparently works in mental health - whatever that means - which makes their comments even more concerning. A different poster is advocating torture if a suspect refuses to tell the police what they want to know. Fortunately most posters on this forum don't share such attitudes.
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Sorry, you're right. Sorry @oufc1991, my brain confused oufc1991 with chris1963!
 
oufc1991 said:
The three things you mentioned

Immigrants: I'm more than happy for anybody to come to this country if they are willing to contribute to this country

Mental health: I actually work in mental health and it's a pleasure to see people get better but not everyone does unfortunately.also I have two sons with autism and I myself have contemplated suicide when I suffered from depression.

Political parties: personally don't trust any of them
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You work in mental health.
You believe people can be pure evil and you believe that torture is ok ( for people that meet your criteria)

Well let’s hope you’re not a clinician.
 
Marston Road yellow said:
You work in mental health.
You believe people can be pure evil and you believe that torture is ok ( for people that meet your criteria)

Well let’s hope you’re not a clinician.
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I think I share your concerns but I wonder if it'd be better to share them in a way that's not as judgemental and attacking. A statement worded like this is really only going to increase a divide rather than allow him to consider your concerns.

for what it's worth, I do work in mental health as a clinician
 
Not sure he was judgemental and attacking - he merely stated what the poster has actually written for the first two sentences - apart *maybe* from his last sentence, which I think was pretty mild and I completely agree with!
 
Chris1963 said:
Just to play devil's advocate, does anyone agree with me that the police should be allowed to use torture in exceptional circumstances? I'm referring to the couple who have been arrested in Sussex but are refusing to say where their baby is. The use of torture on these two lowlifes could potentially have saved the baby's life.
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No. FFS.

They will now face justice and the horror of what they have done.

Footnote that the man in this case moved to Florida aged 13, then aged just 15 in 1990, he was arrested and found guilty of kidnap and sexual battery.

He was sentenced to 20 years in prison and was deported back to the UK in 2010.

Rather like that idea of criminals serving their full term and then being deported - no torture needed!
 
Mojofilter said:
I think I share your concerns but I wonder if it'd be better to share them in a way that's not as judgemental and attacking. A statement worded like this is really only going to increase a divide rather than allow him to consider your concerns.

for what it's worth, I do work in mental health as a clinician
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Fair enough.

Out of interest would you be happy to have those working around you working with patients to feel like this?
 
QR said:
What you are actually advocating for is torture for things you absolutely abhor. And yes in this case that the vast majority of people quite rightly abhor these actions too. The problem comes when you have people in incredible powerful positions who abhor people like you and me. Today we learn the ex secretary of state for Education abhors trade unions. In some countries Trade Union members and officials have been/are tortured.

It's a slippery slope no one should be on.
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I abhor the ex-Secretary of State for Education, may I mildly torture him?
 
Well, today probably marks the turning point in the Begum case, earmarking her return under witness protection and jump to the front of our social housing queue. All at massive tax payer expense.

BBC already campaigning for her, with a Radio 5 show called "The Shamima Begum Story - I'm not a Monster".

Watch this space...
 
bashamwonderland said:
Well, today probably marks the turning point in the Begum case, earmarking her return under witness protection and jump to the front of our social housing queue. All at massive tax payer expense.

BBC already campaigning for her, with a Radio 5 show called "The Shamima Begum Story - I'm not a Monster".

Watch this space...
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But you’re not a racist.

You wouldn’t have said those comments about queue jumping or witness protection if she were white and her name was Jane smith.

She was born here and is therefore British.

The stupidity of leaving a martyr in a desert free to speak to the world press as a poster girl for terrorism astounds me.

She needs to be brought back and tried here so we can be shown what she has done, punished properly and most importantly we can shut her down.

Of course the alternative is that there isn’t any evidence against her in which case why would we take her passport away?
 
Marston Road yellow said:
But you’re not a racist.

You wouldn’t have said those comments about queue jumping or witness protection if she were white and her name was Jane smith.

She was born here and is therefore British.

The stupidity of leaving a martyr in a desert free to speak to the world press as a poster girl for terrorism astounds me.

She needs to be brought back and tried here so we can be shown what she has done, punished properly and most importantly we can shut her down.

Of course the alternative is that there isn’t any evidence against her in which case why would we take her passport away?
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No interest in replying to this absolute guff.
 
Marston Road yellow said:
But you’re not a racist.

You wouldn’t have said those comments about queue jumping or witness protection if she were white and her name was Jane smith.

She was born here and is therefore British.

The stupidity of leaving a martyr in a desert free to speak to the world press as a poster girl for terrorism astounds me.

She needs to be brought back and tried here so we can be shown what she has done, punished properly and most importantly we can shut her down.

Of course the alternative is that there isn’t any evidence against her in which case why would we take her passport away?
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In bold is something often said during discussions like this but is nothing more than speculation.

I personally do think she should be allowed back. I believe that people can lead themselves/be lead down such a deep rabbit hole that they end up making terrible mistakes. I also believe that it is entirely possible for those people to wake up one day and realise what they've done, who they've become, and be horrified by that reality and hope to change it - those people should be offered the chance to prove and enact that change.
 
She lost her appeal - I'm sure there will be a further public opinion campaign by the chosen media and they'll go again at the Supreme Court.

Hopefully the Supreme Court holds its nerve.
 
bashamwonderland said:
Well, today probably marks the turning point in the Begum case, earmarking her return under witness protection and jump to the front of our social housing queue. All at massive tax payer expense.

BBC already campaigning for her, with a Radio 5 show called "The Shamima Begum Story - I'm not a Monster".

Watch this space...
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Would you think the same if a 15 year old white child was groomed in this way by Muslim terrorists?
 
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