International News Covid-19 .....

[greatunclekip]

Maybe the best post ive ever read on here. We are being led by utter clowns.

 

[carefreeoufc]

Getting that strange deja vu feeling... if only we had the hindsight of Spring 2020 or Autumn 2020 or we had control of our borders.

Let’s hope all of the hard work with vaccination and three months apart over winter hasn’t been for nothing and the vaccine is efficient against the Indian variant.

If not then Boris et al. have a lot to answer for, particularly when people on some internet football forum could see what was happening! Even if we do have experts in most fields ;-D

 

[Essexyellows]

The Serco track and trace system that cost tens of billions is working a treat, yes? The one we spent all that money on? It’s working swimmingly and is smashing it, so to speak? Nothing relating to surge testing is to do with the localised NHS systems that already existed, and were providing better results on a pittance all through last year? It’s world beating, as we were promised it would be last summer? I’m just checking. I want to be specific that it’s doing everything we were promised, is working really well, and is worth every penny while ensuring our safety. I’ll take you at your word, but I hope that you wouldn’t lie to me. Not me, John. Of all people, don’t have me on. We have a bond.

You can stop people doing whatever you like at present, though, your citizen or otherwise. I’m not allowed to get on a plane and fly to most of the world currently - I would be stopped. If you’re serious about people quarantining on arrival, regardless of their passport, you do what various other countries have managed to do and you cart them straight into a hotel, no option given. You don’t leave it up to choice or use the ‘honour system’. You also put countries on so-called red lists immediately and don’t P**s about for weeks while the numbers creep up, and the borders stay wide open to arrivals from those countries. We don’t have the resources or the logistical nous to control our borders properly, and well most people know it.

Also, your passport entitles you to return to our country - it does NOT grant you the freedom to stroll through unopposed upon arrival, especially in the middle of a pandemic. We let you off the plane and don’t kick you out, and that’s the end of the deal. How we let you cross the border and the terms upon which your arrival is dependant are completely out of your control. You don’t get to wrap yourself in a Union Jack and run screaming through the checkpoint, while the police give you a salute, just because your passport is British. We just have to hope that we can vaccinate quickly enough to stop it kicking off, which would be damn sight easier if we weren’t being told to go to the cinema and have a few pints and a rave before everybody has even had their first jab. Let’s see if we can run through the minefield without stepping on one. I’m sure that if we manage it then it’ll be breathtaking skill, rather than blind luck. We’ve stepped on most of them anyway.

I hope you get your holiday. You’re quids in if you’re going to Hungary or Malta - they’re closing the gap very quickly in terms of vaccination doses per hundred. They’re both about to overtake us in the next fortnight given the speed of their progress compared to ours over the last month. Smaller populations equals less doctors, nurses, vaccination centres, logistical resources and so on - it’s all in proportion - so I think we can all agree that the size of their populations isn’t really a great argument to explain their progress, despite us screaming very loudly when we started running way before anybody else half a year ago. Hungary especially, with a population of around 10 million (which is about the same as Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland combined) is actually fairly sizeable. It’s basically as big as Belgium. Strange that these EU nations are doing so well. It’s almost like it was a total lie that EU countries haven’t been free to go their own way from the beginning if they so wished, rather than being held at gun point by Germany and France, as has been portrayed. I just don’t know who I can trust anymore, you know?

The Prime Minister claims to be ready for the s**t to hit the fan again before Christmas. The question is, if he truly believes that, what are we doing ripping off the shackles a mere 8 weeks or so before everybody over the age of 18 will have had a needle in the arm?

It’s all very strange. I need a pint and a dance.

Indeed!

That aside what is wrong with expecting folk to abide by the rules rather than locking them up?

As for population vaccine percentages, the most important measure. .......
UK 52.48%
Hungary 44.9%
Europe 24.68%

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Vaccinations

Our vaccination dataset uses the most recent official numbers from governments and health ministries worldwide. Population estimates for per-capita metrics are based on the United Nations World Population Prospects. Income groups are based on the World Bank classification. A full list of our...

ourworldindata.org

Toke on !

 

[chuckbert]

That aside what is wrong with expecting folk to abide by the rules rather than locking them up?

Because a significant proportion of British people (starting from the top) seem disinclined to abide by the rules? The interesting question is "why can't you expect British folk to abide by the rules?". What's wrong with peoples' values, discipline, altruism etc?

The notoriously bolshy Australian population have managed to deal with being locked down and up (and in WA resulting in a landslide election sweep for the "authoritarian" leader).

 

[Paul Cannell]

Being pragmatic, it would be more useful to make rules that work- mandatory quarantine from airport to hotel for every arrival, no week notice etc.

We could argue about what's wrong with British people's values for ever and get n further. I'll start: they exist under the happy sun of privilege, british people have learned from news media that you can get away with murder (well Tony Blair did) and nobody minds. We're special, we have an empire and are a world power, the world's best bands and comedians......

 

[carefreeoufc]

Because a significant proportion of British people (starting from the top) seem disinclined to abide by the rules? The interesting question is "why can't you expect British folk to abide by the rules?". What's wrong with peoples' values, discipline, altruism etc?

The notoriously bolshy Australian population have managed to deal with being locked down and up (and in WA resulting in a landslide election sweep for the "authoritarian" leader).

Remember that thing "lockdown fatigue" that was being banded about last year as a reason why we had delayed lockdown etc. until "just the right time".

Well therein lies the difference between the "notoriously bolshy Australian population" and us mugs in the UK. My friends in Australia have been living a largely normal life on the Gold Coast bar a couple of local lockdowns here and there. As a result of the handling and being able to enjoy life as it should be then they're quite happy to put up with a bit of short term pain from time to time.

Unfortunately we are sat here on the merry-go-round watching time and time again as we are late to lock down, late to close borders, implement inadequate controls when they are closed with our honesty box style declaration and so on.

People have decided f@ck it what's the point. If this new variant is able to circumnavigate the vaccine and we end up back in lockdown in the winter that'll be it in my opinion. You won't get the public back after that and it'll just be crack on as usual! Who knows, maybe that's the result those at the top are after. It's going to be an interesting few months! Particularly as we're now getting ministers coming out (including the PM) and slowly sowing the seed of more pain to come.

Here's a novel thought..... sort this sh1t out and get a handle on it and then we won't have to "prepare". I seem to remember a certain PM briefing last year where we were told effectively to "prepare to lose our loved ones".

 

[Foley]

Yeah I dunno. I just think we need to be cautious and unlock things bit by bit, and be prepared to ramp up restrictions again if necessary. I really hope there's not another lockdown of course but we don't want to go back to 1,000+ dying every day.

I am clearly missing something here?
Deaths are down to 10 a day and seem to be still coming down)
There are around 1000 in hospital with COVID (trending down)
I totally understand the caution, but indications so far seem to suggest that the vaccine works against the Indian variant (appreciate that Witty says that full information hasn't been collected yet)
IF that remains the case and in the basis that most over 40s have been vaccinated and by July all adults will have been offered the jab, then why should we return to 1000 dying per day?

 

[werthersoriginal]

I am clearly missing something here?
Deaths are down to 10 a day and seem to be still coming down)
There are around 1000 in hospital with COVID (trending down)
I totally understand the caution, but indications so far seem to suggest that the vaccine works against the Indian variant (appreciate that Witty says that full information hasn't been collected yet)
IF that remains the case and in the basis that most over 40s have been vaccinated and by July all adults will have been offered the jab, then why should we return to 1000 dying per day?

I think we still need to know a lot more about the Indian and any other variants, and need to stop the virus circulating widely and mutating in unvaccinated populations. If the worst consequence of a cautious approach is that you have to go to Cornwall rather than Corfu it’s worth it, I think?

 

[Paul Cannell]

I am clearly missing something here?
Deaths are down to 10 a day and seem to be still coming down)
There are around 1000 in hospital with COVID (trending down)
I totally understand the caution, but indications so far seem to suggest that the vaccine works against the Indian variant (appreciate that Witty says that full information hasn't been collected yet)
IF that remains the case and in the basis that most over 40s have been vaccinated and by July all adults will have been offered the jab, then why should we return to 1000 dying per day?

That's like saying wait till we find one we can't defend ourselves against then quarantine- worked last time.

 

[Sarge]

reminder - its test and trace .......track and trace is what the royal mail do with parcels

 

[chuckbert]

Here in Perth we had a case out of hotel quarantine, so we locked down fully for a few days and then partially (WFH unless essential, masks, pubs shut, no communal sport) for the next week. During that next week another case from a hotel quarantine security guy came up, but because we were still in partial lockdown from the first one, it had no chance of spreading. That's why you do gradual release - at every stage there is a chance of infections piggy-backing on each other and getting out of control.

 

[chuckbert]

Remember that thing "lockdown fatigue" that was being banded about last year as a reason why we had delayed lockdown etc. until "just the right time".

Well therein lies the difference between the "notoriously bolshy Australian population" and us mugs in the UK. My friends in Australia have been living a largely normal life on the Gold Coast bar a couple of local lockdowns here and there. As a result of the handling and being able to enjoy life as it should be then they're quite happy to put up with a bit of short term pain from time to time.

Yup. (I'm half Aussie now). Australians have shown themselves to be quite compliant. In Perth we've probably had even less lockdown impact than Gold Coast, but even in Melbourne where they had a long, strict lockdown, everyone on the whole was behaving. Being sick of lockdown meant doing it hard to make sure it was over with sooner. The PM realised that the states were handling it pretty well, and apart from a couple of idiocies stayed the f**k out of it. Brits need to have a long hard look at themselves and their leaders.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

Here in Perth we had a case out of hotel quarantine, so we locked down fully for a few days and then partially (WFH unless essential, masks, pubs shut, no communal sport) for the next week. During that next week another case from a hotel quarantine security guy came up, but because we were still in partial lockdown from the first one, it had no chance of spreading. That's why you do gradual release - at every stage there is a chance of infections piggy-backing on each other and getting out of control.

And the more infections you allow to piggyback on each other, the more chance of mutations and as Mr Cannel says, the one emerging that we can;t defend ourselves against.

Potentially good news about vaccine efficacy against the Indian variant though. Whilst there are still billions out there without protections and unable to isolate or lock down, then that is still massive petri-dish for the virus to evolve in. And try as we might (although we could try significantly harder) we will not keep it out with pporous borders and a lax attitude to following the rules.

 

[Foley]

That's like saying wait till we find one we can't defend ourselves against then quarantine- worked last time.

It was a question.
There have been numerous variants already.
I appreciate that the scientist suggest that there isn't the final evidence yet, but the view seems to be that the vaccine is working against the Indian variant from what I have read.
I am not sure that scientists are suggestingbyet that we should kick down again?
Some are suggesting that we may not be able to open up further in June if the evidence shows that we should do that.

 

[Paul Cannell]

Fair point, and apologies for any stridency.

I think it's fair to observe that sudden rises in infection, hospitalisation etc all seem to start almost invisibly and by the time 'we' react a lot of damage has been done and the 'new variant' has a hold. I think it's fair to suggest that virus variants are competing to be the most effective and, while this (may fingers) crossed lead to a very successful infector strain that has mild or no visible effect, it may just as likely lead to one that is newly nasty and more successful at spreading. Hence my twitchiness about quarantine.

 

[Marked Ox]

reminder - its test and trace .......track and trace is what the royal mail do with parcels

Royal Mail would probably be more effective than Serco, tbf.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

Royal Mail would probably be more effective than Serco, tbf.

"We tried to deliver your inmate but you were out"

 

[werthersoriginal]

Yup. (I'm half Aussie now). Australians have shown themselves to be quite compliant. In Perth we've probably had even less lockdown impact than Gold Coast, but even in Melbourne where they had a long, strict lockdown, everyone on the whole was behaving. Being sick of lockdown meant doing it hard to make sure it was over with sooner. The PM realised that the states were handling it pretty well, and apart from a couple of idiocies stayed the f**k out of it. Brits need to have a long hard look at themselves and their leaders.

Unfortunately the advent of the internet has revealed just how stupid, selfish, and ignorant a lot of British people are. Do you feel Australians are better in this respect?

 

[chuckbert]

"We tried to deliver your inmate but you were out"

“We left it in a safe place”.

 

[chuckbert]

Unfortunately the advent of the internet has revealed just how stupid, selfish, and ignorant a lot of British people are. Do you feel Australians are better in this respect?

There’s plenty of stupidity, selfishness and ignorance, so I’m not sure.
I think it’s more complex - maybe that we have less of a nanny state, so ironically people are maybe more compliant when the state does take control.
Through covid the messages have been pretty consistent and unambiguous and I can’t think of a major politician or civil servant who has had to resign or apologise for breaking the rules.
Recently, Australian citizens in India were immediately banned from returning under any circumstances which caused remarkably little kerfuffle - imagine Britain doing that?