Away Match Day Thread 10/04/2023: L1 Port Vale v OUFC

[YellowTaxi]

Looking at our first team squad defenders also include James Golding and the mysterious Teddy Mfuni.

 

[TailsWeWin]

Highly frustrating performance today. Vale were there for the taking. They had just been tonked 3-0 at Accrington and were low on confidence (16 points from their last possible 60, I think), but we came out so risk adverse and unwilling to attack that we gave them confidence, leading to some of their fans saying that the second half was the best they played for some time.

I love that Manning has made us harder to beat and we have kept 2 clean sheets but that doesn’t have to come at the expense of zero attacking threat. The two things are not mutually exclusive. You can set up a team to be defensively solid and have a structure out of possession without losing all attacking impetus. For those that say what can he do with the players at his disposal, the answer is that the players don’t have to be instructed to pass the ball so slowly. When most of our attacks begin with 7-8 languorous passes along our back four, you let the other team get set up and get players behind the ball. The point of this passing is meant to move the opposition out of position but our passing is so slow that this cannot be our purpose. Unsurprisingly, after making several slow sideways passes, the horrific squad KR built cannot play through 10-11 opposition players to create chances, meaning our only hope of scoring goals are a) set pieces/penalties or b) very rare counter attacks that buck the above trend. Result: four games, two goals (one from open play). Think back to how many times one of our players tried to take on and beat an opponent today. Almost everyone on the pitch wearing yellow (away from home finally!) was far happier making a safe backwards or sideways 5 yard pass (Fleming being a notable exception as someone who appeared interested in dribbling and trying to take on a player as well as an outstanding defensive block at a corner).

I lost count of the number of times Sam Long had the ball with space in front of him and then either a) passed backwards inside to the centre back, or b) accelerated 5 yards forward into the space until he faced their wing back and then, instead of looking to play forwards, turned 180 degrees and played it back to our centre half or a deep lying midfielder. Ben Purkiss noticed the second “tactic” on commentary and appeared equally baffled by it.

Subs again were poor today to put it kindly - no Smyth or Smith when McGuane was a mistimed tackle away from a red and O’Donker was exhausted by 75 minutes. Tyler G must be wondering what he has to do to get minutes on the pitch when he sees the poor performances of Murphy and Yanic. Hard to say Murphy played badly today, as I think he must have touched the ball fewer than 15 times. Browne seemed allergic to passing to Murphy and I wonder if this has spread to his teammates. Browne is another incredibly infuriating player with his propensity to choose the wrong option in the final third, and give away daft fouls, but he’s the only one in the front 4 who is likely to create something out of nothing, so I don’t understand why he was taken off after an hour when I thought we should have been desperately trying to win the game.

The lack of urgency that we showed throughout today was also very strange. Every time the ball went out, we were happy to take our time getting the ball back into play, particularly Eastwood. It was clearly a tactic. For the last 4 minutes when we are playing against 10 men, there was no urgency to get the ball forward to win 3 points and instead we were content to continue knocking it between the back four. I was similarly unimpressed with the lack of ambition going forward after Moore went off injured in the final 15-20 minutes on Friday against Sheffield Wednesday - another team low on confidence who we could have troubled and fought hard for 3 points but again just seemed to settle for one.

Time will tell, and I really hope I’m wrong, but I have a horrible feeling that 4 successive draws in the last 4 games is not ultimately going to be enough. If today wasn’t the day to try to take off the handbrake to try to finally win a game, in which game is the handbrake finally going to come off??

Manning has done a lot of good in the past month, and while I fully embraced the tactics to get a point at Peterborough and disagreed with but could understand the hesitancy to attack the league leaders at home, I think it is legitimate to question why he seemed so content to play for a draw today against an extremely poor team. It was a very painful watch on ifollow so fair play to the 975 who travelled to watch that dire fare.

What to do for the next 2 home games? It’s tough but 4-2-3-1 with wingers isn’t working for us offensively. Playing with Murphy and Yanic right now is like playing with 10 men (or 9 when they are both on together). If you are going to play wingers, Browne has to play wide left, Joseph or Tyler G wide right but we have no one who can play as a no 10 so it’s either 4-3-3 (4-5-1 out of possession) or 3-5-2 and wing backs which only works on the right if Anderson is fit.

Excellent post and correct in many aspects.
The lack of ambition was puzzling. I realise some will now put a positive spin on that (you know who you are!) but it really was a tedious watch. In the pub beforehand the home supporters were saying how dreadful their team is currently so it was certainly a dropped three (two) points. We really do now have to be more ambitious than that.

 

[ECYellow]

Not great examples considering Carlisle are going for the top 3 and there is a massive feel good atmosphere around their club right now (led by a lot of positive social media interaction) and Donny is an hour down the road from Grimsby which is one of their closest games of the season.

If we want fans to come back in their numbers then the club need to pull their finger out and start getting better on the various social media platforms.

I assume we still do have a SLO?!

Good point regarding the SLO. Who knows? I last reached out after there were away fans in the home sections at a recent fixture but never got a reply.

I’m staggered that the club haven’t been more pro-active already to get bums on seats for the remaining home fixtures. It beggars belief that anyone with half a brain at the club is happy to just let supporters (customers) drift too and from OUFC at a great time of need and support.

If anyone at the club reads this, for goodness sake pull your bloody fingers out and sell the ground out for these remaining games. An extra 1000 home fans singing and encouraging might just make all the difference to the players!

 

[yellowbow]

Highly frustrating performance today. Vale were there for the taking. They had just been tonked 3-0 at Accrington and were low on confidence (16 points from their last possible 60, I think), but we came out so risk adverse and unwilling to attack that we gave them confidence, leading to some of their fans saying that the second half was the best they played for some time.

I love that Manning has made us harder to beat and we have kept 2 clean sheets but that doesn’t have to come at the expense of zero attacking threat. The two things are not mutually exclusive. You can set up a team to be defensively solid and have a structure out of possession without losing all attacking impetus. For those that say what can he do with the players at his disposal, the answer is that the players don’t have to be instructed to pass the ball so slowly. When most of our attacks begin with 7-8 languorous passes along our back four, you let the other team get set up and get players behind the ball. The point of this passing is meant to move the opposition out of position but our passing is so slow that this cannot be our purpose. Unsurprisingly, after making several slow sideways passes, the horrific squad KR built cannot play through 10-11 opposition players to create chances, meaning our only hope of scoring goals are a) set pieces/penalties or b) very rare counter attacks that buck the above trend. Result: four games, two goals (one from open play). Think back to how many times one of our players tried to take on and beat an opponent today. Almost everyone on the pitch wearing yellow (away from home finally!) was far happier making a safe backwards or sideways 5 yard pass (Fleming being a notable exception as someone who appeared interested in dribbling and trying to take on a player as well as an outstanding defensive block at a corner).

I lost count of the number of times Sam Long had the ball with space in front of him and then either a) passed backwards inside to the centre back, or b) accelerated 5 yards forward into the space until he faced their wing back and then, instead of looking to play forwards, turned 180 degrees and played it back to our centre half or a deep lying midfielder. Ben Purkiss noticed the second “tactic” on commentary and appeared equally baffled by it.

Subs again were poor today to put it kindly - no Smyth or Smith when McGuane was a mistimed tackle away from a red and O’Donker was exhausted by 75 minutes. Tyler G must be wondering what he has to do to get minutes on the pitch when he sees the poor performances of Murphy and Yanic. Hard to say Murphy played badly today, as I think he must have touched the ball fewer than 15 times. Browne seemed allergic to passing to Murphy and I wonder if this has spread to his teammates. Browne is another incredibly infuriating player with his propensity to choose the wrong option in the final third, and give away daft fouls, but he’s the only one in the front 4 who is likely to create something out of nothing, so I don’t understand why he was taken off after an hour when I thought we should have been desperately trying to win the game.

The lack of urgency that we showed throughout today was also very strange. Every time the ball went out, we were happy to take our time getting the ball back into play, particularly Eastwood. It was clearly a tactic. For the last 4 minutes when we are playing against 10 men, there was no urgency to get the ball forward to win 3 points and instead we were content to continue knocking it between the back four. I was similarly unimpressed with the lack of ambition going forward after Moore went off injured in the final 15-20 minutes on Friday against Sheffield Wednesday - another team low on confidence who we could have troubled and fought hard for 3 points but again just seemed to settle for one.

Time will tell, and I really hope I’m wrong, but I have a horrible feeling that 4 successive draws in the last 4 games is not ultimately going to be enough. If today wasn’t the day to try to take off the handbrake to try to finally win a game, in which game is the handbrake finally going to come off??

Manning has done a lot of good in the past month, and while I fully embraced the tactics to get a point at Peterborough and disagreed with but could understand the hesitancy to attack the league leaders at home, I think it is legitimate to question why he seemed so content to play for a draw today against an extremely poor team. It was a very painful watch on ifollow so fair play to the 975 who travelled to watch that dire fare.

What to do for the next 2 home games? It’s tough but 4-2-3-1 with wingers isn’t working for us offensively. Playing with Murphy and Yanic right now is like playing with 10 men (or 9 when they are both on together). If you are going to play wingers, Browne has to play wide left, Joseph or Tyler G wide right but we have no one who can play as a no 10 so it’s either 4-3-3 (4-5-1 out of possession) or 3-5-2 and wing backs which only works on the right if Anderson is fit.

Great post but, to be fair to Manning, he does seem frustrated with our attacking play in the post match interview. Confidence is low and things just aren’t coming off in the final third. There were a few chances where we could have scored - Findlay had a chance nicked off his head at the last moment when he looked odds on to score, GO’D could, and maybe should have done better with a couple. We just need a lucky break. If, I know it’s a big if, we can get our noses in front in a game, just maybe the belief will start to return and things will look a lot more fluid in the final third. Yes I know we went ahead in the Morecambe game but that was very early into LM’s tenure, when we were very much still all over the place.

There is obviously a very real concern that maybe we just don’t have players capable of scoring. GO’D is still very raw and snatches at chances but doesn’t really get many chances coming in to him in good areas at the moment. We just need belief, then hopefully fluidity will return and we’ll start looking like a different team. We’ve got 4 of our last 6 at home. A big crowd getting behind the team - like it did in the second half vs SW could make all the difference.

If we can core first next week against Bolton I think we’ll see the confidence return and hopefully things will start to click again

 

[Berliner]

The idea that one goal will suddenly turn us into a phoenix-like attacking juggernaut is rather fanciful, I would say. All things point to becoming even more defensive instead.

And, you know, I kind of get Manning on this score. Don't let goals in is his first priority. But if he isn't careful, the lack of inspiration will see us down. I can easily see us in the drop zone going into the final three games and then we HAVE to attack. Shades of 2006, most definitely.

 

[Jster]

Manning's taken over a side that we knew couldn't keep clean sheets and kept two in four games, and only conceded one (to a worldie) against the best side in the division thus far. What's more, since he arrived he lost Henry, Anderson and Bate from an already thin squad, and then his captain for the most recent match. A lot of people here were saying he had to start with defensive solidity in a relegation battle (we were worried he might be too open and attacking!) - hopefully he can now build on that.

 

[ECYellow]

On the lack of goals, I think it’s clear what LM needs to try and do. He HAS to get CB further forward in midfield. It’s no coincidence that he is our leading goal scorer this season and we need to get him in attacking areas of the pitch.

I’d be playing Smyth and McGuane as the deep lying 2 with CB more advanced and asking him to drive forward with and without the ball. We need him arriving at the edge of the box and making things happen.

Oh to have a fit James Henry and Billy Bodin at this point, too.

 

[Wandering Yellow]

Accrington smashed Vale because they're better than us. This season was sealed in the farcical summer transfer window.

 

[Gregortheox]

Worrying times. We can’t score, which means ultimately we are relegation material.
Being hard to beat is a good thing but it’s a points accumulation business. Now more than ever.
I’m sorry to sound negative but in my mind it will take an astounding turn around …or a unprecedented number of draws to stay up.

 

[Jster]

If they are both out, then it has to be a four: long, Findlay, brown, Fleming, with Smyth to centre back the option if someone gets injured during the game

I'd be a little worried about Fleming as left back in a four, as he's so attacking, but this is fair too.

 

[holdsteady]

On the lack of goals, I think it’s clear what LM needs to try and do. He HAS to get CB further forward in midfield. It’s no coincidence that he is our leading goal scorer this season and we need to get him in attacking areas of the pitch.

I’d be playing Smyth and McGuane as the deep lying 2 with CB more advanced and asking him to drive forward with and without the ball. We need him arriving at the edge of the box and making things happen.

Oh to have a fit James Henry and Billy Bodin at this point, too.

I would be happy enough with just Bodin back of those two, which isn't something I thought I would be saying at the beginning of the season but he at least would bring some goal threat into this side.

As we don't seem to be hearing anything about the injured players and their is only 26 days left in the season its hard to see us getting them back match fit in such a short time, meaning Brannagan has to go further forward, he seems to be playing deeper to accommodate both of Murphy and Browne into the team, given what I saw from them this weekend I would rather sacrifice Murphy, push Browne onto left wing and Have Brannagan further forward.

 

[Foley]

Accrington smashed Vale because they're better than us. This season was sealed in the farcical summer transfer window.

Really?
In their past 3 games they have lost 5 0 to Exeter and 3 0 v Sheff W (plus a surprising win v Port Vale where Jack Stevens gifted them the first goal)
They are below us in the league. Not sure where they are better than us comes from?

 

[Thomas/Brock/Jones]

LM is definitely doing the right thing in getting the foundations in to make us not concede so easily which gives us at least a hope of winning .
Next step will be to try and turn our impotent attack into one that can score one or two a game .....
Think he had no option other to do that as if we went all out attack with most teams we would lose nearly every time.

 

[RyanioBirdio]

And, you know, I kind of get Manning on this score. Don't let goals in is his first priority. But if he isn't careful, the lack of inspiration will see us down. I can easily see us in the drop zone going into the final three games and then we HAVE to attack.

At which point we will be going into those games blunt as anything, because we won’t have even tried to sand the rust off the blade beforehand if we carry on showing such a lack of willingness to attack anyone. I doubt that the next three games against sides in or chasing the playoffs are going to be the ones where the handbrake comes off, but maybe I’ll be surprised and Manning will start going for it. He did sound a little frustrated that we barely laid a glove on them after the match. I doubt it very much, but it’s possible. People talk about being hard to beat and not conceding many goals, and that’s fine initially, but at some point the attack needs drilling too. It goes both ways.

After three games and almost an entire calendar month under Manning, yesterday was the game where we had to see at least some small intent, and the manner of our performance in the circumstances was poor. We got slapped about in that second half and should have lost by a couple. Eastwood rolling back the years is all that saved us. Vale just got battered by Accrington and were without several players between ineligibility and suspension, yet we made them look as though they were significantly more than six points better than us. They lose that game and it’s another side dragged into it as well as two extra points for us. We are still looking at all points as though they’re equal. They are not.

People are also falling back into being more concerned about not losing and having an unbeaten streak than winning a game. This happened at the end of last year and did almost nothing for our cause because they were nearly all draws. Draw every game across a season and you will get relegated without losing a match. After the Derby game we were three points clear of the relegation zone - now it’s two. We are closer to the drop in terms of cold, hard points now than before this ‘run’ began. MK have overtaken us since then; Cambridge are three points behind us rather than six. We are factually worse off having not lost a game than we were before that started. That’s not an opinion.

We need to at least look as though we are willing to try to win a game of football at some point. A home game on Saturday is as good an opportunity as any.

 

[MiddleBartonYellow]

LM is definitely doing the right thing in getting the foundations in to make us not concede so easily which gives us at least a hope of winning .
Next step will be to try and turn our impotent attack into one that can score one or two a game .....
Think he had no option other to do that as if we went all out attack with most teams we would lose nearly every time.

Definitely agree, defensively solid first and foremost, and then hopefully try and get a goal or two. Whether it will be enough remains to be seen.

 

[Thomas/Brock/Jones]

At which point we will be going into those games blunt as anything, because we won’t have even tried to sand the rust off the blade beforehand if we carry on showing such a lack of willingness to attack anyone. I doubt that the next three games against sides in or chasing the playoffs are going to be the ones where the handbrake comes off, but maybe I’ll be surprised and Manning will start going for it. He did sound a little frustrated that we barely laid a glove on them after the match. I doubt it very much, but it’s possible. People talk about being hard to beat and not conceding many goals, and that’s fine initially, but at some point the attack needs drilling too. It goes both ways.

After three games and almost an entire calendar month under Manning, yesterday was the game where we had to see at least some small intent, and the manner of our performance in the circumstances was poor. We got slapped about in that second half and should have lost by a couple. Eastwood rolling back the years is all that saved us. Vale just got battered by Accrington and were without several players between ineligibility and suspension, yet we made them look as though they were significantly more than six points better than us. They lose that game and it’s another side dragged into it as well as two extra points for us. We are still looking at all points as though they’re equal. They are not.

People are also falling back into being more concerned about not losing and having an unbeaten streak than winning a game. This happened at the end of last year and did almost nothing for our cause because they were nearly all draws. Draw every game across a season and you will get relegated without losing a match. After the Derby game we were three points clear of the relegation zone - now it’s two. We are closer to the drop in terms of cold, hard points now than before this ‘run’ began. MK have overtaken us since then; Cambridge are three points behind us rather than six. We are factually worse off having not lost a game than we were before that started. That’s not an opinion.

We need to at least look as though we are willing to try to win a game of football at some point. A home game on Saturday is as good an opportunity as any.

We lost 7 games recently playing very poorly , not scoring , conceding goals against Bristol Rovrs 0-3, Cambridge 0-1, Lincoln 0-1, Burton 0-2 , wyc 0-2 , Shrews 0-1 ...that dreadful form had to be halted ...and has been with 3 away draws and a home one in which we did attack well in the 2nd half against a top side.
We obviously need more than draws but we desperately needed something to build on and just hoping to go all out attack and win away from home especially isn't quite as simple as you make it sound.

 

[Jster]

Yeah, I'm hoping it's a home and away thing. We did look more attacking in the one home game.

 

[YellowTaxi]

Yeah, I'm hoping it's a home and away thing. We did look more attacking in the one home game.

And we have 4 home games and 2 away- (one of which is against bottom club Forest Green Rovers.)

 

[LowerSouth]

This a a friend and very long term fans view.

The game was played in rain, sometimes heavy, but could never be described as anything more than mediocre despite a number of attempts at goal. Negru played instead of the concussed Moore and O'Donkor replaced Wildschut.

Although United looked the more composed team in the first half, spasmodic but highly physical Vale play meant United needed to be on their guard. Long was out of sorts in that opening half and Negru was targeted for some stiff body challenges and forced to make one or two hasty clearances. He though tried to keep calm and took breathers when given time to play out with short passes between him, Findlay and Long.

United never really came close in that opening half although Browne was busy and Joseph was his usual all-action self.

The third quarter of the game had me accepting a 0-0 scoreline. Vale pressed and frequently slung the ball in the United penalty area. It was the half clearances that were United's undoing. Shots were ringing in and Eastwood was clawing them away. He was MotM. As he was at the far end it was not always easy to judge which goal attempts were comfortable to save but the home fans got excited and behind their team and I had the strong feeling that United were going to fall behind.

But the team survived and play switched mostly to the other end for the final quarter. Much of that was due to the introduction of Fleming. He played wide on the left and you could see the determination on his face as he ran at the home defence. The only United player to do so all game. His efforts gave me hope that United might even win but he was a solitary bit of blue sky in an otherwise abject attacking display which relied on a minimal number of players waiting for a defensive mistake. No-one looks to help each other. O'Donkor didn't run wider to assist Joseph and Murphy. The latter two didn't move closer to O'Donkor as play built up away from their side of the field. McGuane and Brannagan were mostly negative in everything they did. The former got himself and the team in trouble more than once by delaying a pass and/or by turning the wrong way. Brannagan, and I'm now more convinced than ever, is carrying an injury and holding himself back. He did require lengthy first half treatment and took a while to recover, if he ever did.

Wildschut replaced Browne at the second half mid-point. Although he didn't show us any powerful runs he contributed to United's best moment by passing to O'Donkor and the latter's shot was saved at point-blank range. Thinking back, that may have been the only accurate pass in the home penalty area. Joseph also had a late attempt which was cleared from just in front of the line. Had that gone in it would have been a serious goalkeeping error having been beaten from that range and from a sharp angle.

So it was a point and the team is now 2 points clear of the bottom 4 with 4 out of 6 to play at home. Survival is still possible even though I don't like the idea of Accrington having to play Cambridge on the penultimate weekend. Someone may benefit big time. More concerning is the lack of fluency and positivity when United move forward. United have certainly got themselves into a pickle with their shortage of players. I can understand a little reticence yesterday with a new inexperienced player in the back line. That obviously infuriated Vale as well because the attack on Negru in stoppage time was desperate and violent. A red card was the only possible outcome.

 

[RyanioBirdio]

We lost 7 games recently playing very poorly , not scoring , conceding goals against Bristol Rovrs 0-3, Cambridge 0-1, Lincoln 0-1, Burton 0-2 , wyc 0-2 , Shrews 0-1 ...that dreadful form had to be halted ...and has been with 3 away draws and a home one in which we did attack well in the 2nd half against a top side.
We obviously need more than draws but we desperately needed something to build on and just hoping to go all out attack and win away from home especially isn't quite as simple as you make it sound.

I never said all out attack. I said at least look like we have half an interest in scoring a goal.

That needs to change, because as the facts show we are closer to relegation now than before we started celebrating endless draws as though they were cup wins. The rot was already stopped after three - yesterday was when we needed to show intent and it was our worst and least ambitious showing of the four by a country mile.

Context.