The Squad (Scary Viewing)

M

Mintyshoe

Level: Mateo Corbo
(13 Apps, 8 Yellows, 1 Red)
No Fun
I've just had that sinking feeling looking at our squad - as in players actually contracted to OUFC.

When you see whats been cobbled together here over the summer, and now with an element of hindsight, it's plain to see we're in real trouble here:

Loaned Players...likely to all be returning to parent clubs eventually; disinterested on the whole.
3 DF Luke Garbutt (on loan from Everton)
9 FW Sam Smith (on loan from Reading)
10 MF Marcus Browne (on loan from West Ham United)
11 MF Samir Carruthers (on loan from Sheffield United)
12 MF Ricky Holmes (on loan from Sheffield United)
41 GK Jonathan Mitchell (on loan from Derby County)

Youth Players...some may come good and hold their own.
23 DF Sam Long (despite his age is still not considered a 1st team regular)
25 MF Tsun Dai
26 MF Shandon Baptiste
27 GK Jack Stevens
42 FW Owen James
43 FW Fabio Lopes
44 MF Slavi Spasov

Crocked...to the extent it's unlikely we'll see them play again.
7 FW Robert Hall
13 GK Scott Shearer

From the remaining squad they can be sorted into the following groups (with pushing for a play-off spot in mind):

Unproven/Not good enough
2 DF Cameron Norman
4 DF Rob Dickie (still unproven imo)
19 FW Jamie Mackie (semi-crocked)
20 FW Jon Obika
22 DF Charlie Raglan
14 MF Josh Ruffels (useful squad player among better players)
8 MF Cameron Brannagan (still relatively unproven at this level and hasn't been standout)
15 DF John Mousinho (Makes too many mistakes on a consistent basis)
29 DF Tony McMahon

Play-off Quality
1 GK Simon Eastwood (Injured)
5 DF Curtis Nelson (Highly likely to be leaving on a free)
6 MF Jamie Hanson (Poor so far but has played at a higher level)
16 FW Gavin Whyte (Unproven, but of all looks like the one who could perform at this level)
17 FW James Henry

This is why if we don't strengthen significantly during Jan, we could be in trouble...I can now picture looking back at this squad and thinking "no wonder we went down", which is a big concern.

I hope we will be safe, but even if we are there's a massive rebuild here.
 
Urgh! That's not looking pretty. I think Brannagan has done enough despite being consistently misdeployed - looks a quality player to me but in danger of letting frustration boil over (understandably in my view). Am worried Nelson has lost an important 10% from his game post-injury. Still an elegant player but he looks slower on the turn and as though his body is a step behind his mind a lot of the time. Mousinho could make the cut in a holding MF role perhaps, but agree with you that the mistakes are too many and too often to ignore as a CB. I think the bookies have us about right at evens to go down. What a mess.
 
Maybe add an under the bus section of players publicly trashed/humiliated by our leadership:
Norman, Stevens, Raglan, Long (it seems), etc
 
Berliner said:
I'm not sure I'd put Hanson in the last group. You could argue that McMahon has been poor so far but has played at a higher level as well, doesn't make him play-off quality. Hanson solidly in the "unproven/not good enough" group for me.
Click to expand...

Fair enough - I didn't realise how frequently and recent McMahon had played in the Championship, I guess I've just decided he's not good enough already.

Hanson I'm unsure but remain positive that he'll come good given his pedigree.
 
mooro said:
Maybe add an under the bus section of players publicly trashed/humiliated by our leadership:
Norman, Stevens, Raglan, Long (it seems), etc
Click to expand...
Long trashed humiliated?
Where was he trashed? That's like suggesting that Pep trashed and humiliated Sane.
These players have to be tough if they are to make it to a decent level. I am not sure that being left out as they didn't play well enough is being trashed ....
 
As a follow-up to that MAPP genuinely trashed players after the Cambridge game.
Junior Brown was one who was I believe told that he would never play for OUFC again.
He was big enough to prove himself good enough and have a decent career.
We are in trouble if players not deemed good enough are going to cry and not fight to prove the manager wrong..
 
Foley said:
We are in trouble if players not deemed good enough are going to cry and not fight to prove the manager wrong..
Click to expand...

Too damn right. If a player makes a mistake, the crowd are quick enough to let him know - no thought of the consequence there and I'd imagine a couple of thousand people on you case is a damn sight more daunting than a throwaway soundbyte (and the players probably doesn't even get to hear the post-match anyway).

I'd hope that anyone that has managed to make a career in professional football has already been castigated at some point in his development and has come out the other side. If not, then they probably need to look for another job........
 
Foley said:
Long trashed humiliated?
Where was he trashed? That's like suggesting that Pep trashed and humiliated Sane.
These players have to be tough if they are to make it to a decent level. I am not sure that being left out as they didn't play well enough is being trashed ....
Click to expand...
Sorry, was just looking for a description for those either (i) called out by name by KR (Stevens and now maybe Hanson), (ii) left out in the cold from the off (Raglan) or (iii) those who went from starting XI to not being in the XVIII for the next game without explanation/injury (Norman, Long and also perhaps put McMahon in there as well, although there was eventually mention of an injury when it happened to him, but not at the time) - and therefore at the bottom of KR's list of players to pick - I think some refer to it as the 'bomb squad'.
Not a comment on their attitude/commitment/resiliance, just on the manager's current attitude towards them
 
Thanks, Mintyshoe, sobering stuff (not that anyone is drunk with excitement...). In such dire circumstances we might sometimes hope for a 'backs to the wall' feisty reaction of pride, but it simply doesn't feel as if this squad has that capacity. No leadership and too many who are looking towards the door marked exit.
I'd love to be proved wrong by a spirited display at Southend, but I fear a pasting on Saturday.
 
Got relegation written all over it.....KR needs bombing out NOW and any new man can sift thru the s**t and keep what he thinks good enough and then in January get a few players in,and hope we aint too far behind to catch up...............also hope there are some teams in the same shi1boat we are in
 
carefreeoufc said:
Looking at the squad like that it does make me focus some of the blame onto Tiger. For all the bluster I’m not sure that we’ve seen our manager backed as much as was suggested.
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Whilst our budget may not be as big as it was in the last couple of years, I find it hard to believe it's worse than middle-of-the-pack for League One.

And I will make an absolute cast-iron guarantee that it's substantially larger than Accrington's - and yet they have four times as many points as we do.

When you start with 5 points from 11 games, there's plenty of blame to share around. But KR has got to take the largest share.........
 
carefreeoufc said:
Looking at the squad like that it does make me focus some of the blame onto Tiger. For all the bluster I’m not sure that we’ve seen our manager backed as much as was suggested.
Click to expand...

Interesting, if you look at all of those loan players, how much do you think it would cost to buy all of them as a group? Several million (5 million plus) I imagine, we pay a percentage of their wages which even if its only 10% (which it wont be) would be a fair amount for all of those players on their current wage. This also doesn't take into account loan fees and ridiculous relocation fees which are paid now.

We paid fees for Hanson and Whyte, undisclosed maybe but fees were still paid.

Now I think that there is a substantial amount of money there and Tiger has backed his manager. Robinson rolled the dice with those loan signings (He would rather have Smith on loan then sign a Wes Thomas esq Striker at this level on a 1 year deal etc) and he has to take the responsibility for that.

I had no problem with him bringing in loans rather then permanent signings but its unfair to say he hasn't been backed. I imagine a lot of managers in this league would be extremely happy with the budget he has.
 
Looking at the players we sold in the last 12 months and the money that’s been reinvested in the squad is no where near as far as im concerned.

The way I see it (particularly in our current situation) a loan player is like temping at a s**t company. Turn up, take the wages, not too bothered what happens so long as you’re out when agreed.
 
carefreeoufc said:
Looking at the players we sold in the last 12 months and the money that’s been reinvested in the squad is no where near as far as im concerned.

The way I see it (particularly in our current situation) a loan player is like temping at a s**t company. Turn up, take the wages, not too bothered what happens so long as you’re out when agreed.
Click to expand...

Well first of all it's not just a case of we sold players for x amount so we now spend x amount.

We won't be spending anyway near the sort of fees we recoup as it's far too big a risk. We get players cheapish, then sell them big.

As for loans. It's easy to have that opinion now and most of us probably find it easy to agree now because of where we are in the league.

However when the loans are successful like Roofe, Graham, Baldock, JJ Kenny etc we are not too bothered.
 
grenobleroad said:
Well first of all it's not just a case of we sold players for x amount so we now spend x amount.

We won't be spending anyway near the sort of fees we recoup as it's far too big a risk. We get players cheapish, then sell them big.

As for loans. It's easy to have that opinion now and most of us probably find it easy to agree now because of where we are in the league.

However when the loans are successful like Roofe, Graham, Baldock, JJ Kenny etc we are not too bothered.
Click to expand...

I’m not so sure I agree. I know it’s the modern way for lower league teams but I remember how pig sick I feel when the good ones get recalled.
 
Some days I think about this lot as a Championship team.

Eastwood
Baldock Dunkley Nelson johnson
Ledson Lundstram
O’Dowda Roofe Maguire

So good we don’t even need 11 players.

In a parralell universe de won the euro millions, map never jumped ship and we were play-offchallengers in the champ

And we even managed to find someone good enough to play as the ‘1’
 
The Hawk said:
Some days I think about this lot as a Championship team.

Eastwood
Baldock Dunkley Nelson johnson
Ledson Lundstram
O’Dowda Roofe Maguire

So good we don’t even need 11 players.

In a parralell universe de won the euro millions, map never jumped ship and we were play-offchallengers in the champ

And we even managed to find someone good enough to play as the ‘1’
Click to expand...

Jordan Graham on the right, Maguire in the middle, O'Dowda on the left, Roofe up top.
 
yellowbow said:
I’m not so sure I agree. I know it’s the modern way for lower league teams but I remember how pig sick I feel when the good ones get recalled.
Click to expand...
I'm not a massive fan either, just trying to give a bit of balance.
 
Please don’t tell me Wes Thomas was worth keeping as soon as Jack Payne went he only managed to score 2 league goals in 16 appearances in 2018, all our strikers last season scored 19 league goals between the 4 off them that dreadful at any level, we needed a proven goal scorer whether that came from a league below like Peterborough investing in Godden from Stevenage or a decent u23 premiership/championship player on loan who’s capable of scoring goals at this level like a Adam Armstrong for example (I know he signed for Blackburn for £3M but a example) instead KR goes all out to get unproven Smith then says he’s struggling to adapt as it’s his first time he’s been out on loan & also signs a unfit injury prone never been a goal scorer ever Jamie Mackie along with keeping useless Okiba from 19 goals from 46 games so far it’s 1 goal from 11 games at this rate we’ll be lucky to reach double figures with theses 3

It’s down to both poor investment & sh:tte recruitment
 
yellowbow said:
I’m not so sure I agree. I know it’s the modern way for lower league teams but I remember how pig sick I feel when the good ones get recalled.
Click to expand...
Better to have loved and lost than to ... erm ... get stuck with the minger you grabbed at last orders
 
Mintyshoe said:
I've just had that sinking feeling looking at our squad - as in players actually contracted to OUFC.

When you see whats been cobbled together here over the summer, and now with an element of hindsight, it's plain to see we're in real trouble here:

Loaned Players...likely to all be returning to parent clubs eventually; disinterested on the whole.
3 DF Luke Garbutt (on loan from Everton)
9 FW Sam Smith (on loan from Reading)
10 MF Marcus Browne (on loan from West Ham United)
11 MF Samir Carruthers (on loan from Sheffield United)
12 MF Ricky Holmes (on loan from Sheffield United)
41 GK Jonathan Mitchell (on loan from Derby County)

Youth Players...some may come good and hold their own.
23 DF Sam Long (despite his age is still not considered a 1st team regular)
25 MF Tsun Dai
26 MF Shandon Baptiste
27 GK Jack Stevens
42 FW Owen James
43 FW Fabio Lopes
44 MF Slavi Spasov

Crocked...to the extent it's unlikely we'll see them play again.
7 FW Robert Hall
13 GK Scott Shearer

From the remaining squad they can be sorted into the following groups (with pushing for a play-off spot in mind):

Unproven/Not good enough
2 DF Cameron Norman
4 DF Rob Dickie (still unproven imo)
19 FW Jamie Mackie (semi-crocked)
20 FW Jon Obika
22 DF Charlie Raglan
14 MF Josh Ruffels (useful squad player among better players)
8 MF Cameron Brannagan (still relatively unproven at this level and hasn't been standout)
15 DF John Mousinho (Makes too many mistakes on a consistent basis)
29 DF Tony McMahon

Play-off Quality
1 GK Simon Eastwood (Injured)
5 DF Curtis Nelson (Highly likely to be leaving on a free)
6 MF Jamie Hanson (Poor so far but has played at a higher level)
16 FW Gavin Whyte (Unproven, but of all looks like the one who could perform at this level)
17 FW James Henry

This is why if we don't strengthen significantly during Jan, we could be in trouble...I can now picture looking back at this squad and thinking "no wonder we went down", which is a big concern.

I hope we will be safe, but even if we are there's a massive rebuild here.
Click to expand...

Good post.
My thoughts as I see it today. Players can improve and can get worse. Maybe utilising a player to his best attributes makes him very useful and actually much better than currently rated.

Loan Players...
Most are very unlikely to want to stay beyond Jan.
Michell will be gone when Eastwood comes back to fitness
Smith, Browne and Garrett will slip off back to their respective clubs. None of them are good enough to play for their home clubs but having said that Browne seems to have had the quality drained from him. So maybe we haven't seen the best of them.
Carruthers will be sold to the highest bidder, which will not be us.
Holmes might stay due to his seemingly undying man crush on Robinson. But I can't see him lasting beyond a couple more defeats. The loss at home to Plymouth will be his last game.

Youth Players...
Forget everyone except Baptiste (See play-off quality) he's nearly first name on the first team sheet. But not this weekend and he can't be expected to be on top form every week.

Crocked...
I can't see Hall being fit until next season. Even if he recovers from the op he'll take a long time to get back to fitness.

Not good enough...
Obika
McMahon
Mackie

Average Squad Players...
Norman
Dickie
Raglan
Ruffles
Brannagan
Mousinho
Henry
Hanson

Play-off Quality....
Nelson - Will be gone in Jan
Eastwood - Will be a target in Jan, but is settled in the area so might stay
Whyte - Our best asset and even though he's only been here a short time we'll be lucky to hang on to him in Jan.
Baptiste

We are in massive trouble! How we will strengthen in January is beyond me. Who will want to come to a club rock bottom of the league.
Robinson has failed massively with his signings in the summer. We're a really poor, unbalanced side with little threat going forward, weak in midfield and a leaky defence. When Tiger said exciting season I thought he meant promotion chasing not relegation battle.
 
I think it's a squad that has been muddled together rather than built. Let's have a look at all the players that KR didn't sign.

Pre-MApp: Long, Ruffels.
MApp: Eastwood, Nelson, Hall, Raglan, Shearer (late on).
Between managers: Obika.
Pep: Mousinho, Henry.
Pep in January (Tiger Really): Dickie, Brannagan.

So that makes up about half the squad, which shows that KR is making his stamp on the squad despite being here for under a year. But also note the make-up of these players, there's more of a defensive build. And during KR's time last season, the defence was mostly solid. That meant that KR could go off into the summer and focus on the attack.

KR (Before Pre-Season): Norman, McMahon, Carruthers, Garbutt.

A quiet, but a decent start. The addition of the 3 full-backs meant our defensive transfers were done. Carruthers comes in as a central midfielder/winger.

KR (During Pre-Season): Whyte, Mackie, Browne.

We weren't making signings quick enough. Whyte is a natural winger if unproven, Mackie would be a great signing if he's fit, shame that he - on a free transfer - couldn't have signed months ago and joined up before pre-season. Browne arrived injured and he says he can play as a winger, but prefers playing through the centre.

KR (After Pre-Season, Before the First Game): Smith.

He finally arrived after KR tracked him for a while, but hadn't played a single game for us. Was thrown in after Carruthers's injury 20 minutes into the Barnsley game.

KR (After the First Game): Holmes, Mitchell, Hanson, Tsun Dai.

More loans, but Holmes is proven. Arrived injured but can play on the wing. Better through the centre. KR didn't trust any of our other keepers, which begs the question why they're here. Hanson was a deadline day signing thrown into a squad already sinking, and Tsun Dai is an U23 player that the club marketed as a first-team signing.

TLDR; A mess of a transfer window. Players either arrived too late, injured, or was a 'winger' who preferred playing centrally.
 
Last edited:
Am I the only one who thinks we actually have any decent squad? Regardless of wether they’re our players or not. Purely from the perspective of staying in the division. You can’t tell me that, man for man teams like Blackpool, Walsall, Gillingham, Wimbledon, Rochdale and Shrewsbury have better squads than us.

The difference? Tactics, shape and organisation. Look at Shrewsbury last year. They massively overachieved because they were a unit where everyone knew there job and, they made themselves difficult to beat first and foremost.

I do think injuries have played a big part in KR’s defence. That being said he still should be doing much better with the squad we have.
 
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