Potential New Ground

[Essexyellows]

I think it's debatable whether Oxford is a footballing city or not, and I guess that depends on what that even means. Do we have the appetite for higher crowds? Yes. Last season saw several sell outs, and would have seen several more had the season completed as expected. And if that had led to our promotion then we could have easily added another few thousand through the gates. Covid has changed all that, but get things toght on the pitch and plenty of people will come - especially to a shiny new stadium.

But ignoring the football for one moment, modern stadiums offer so much more than football alone. There could be links to the university or other local sporting events. Live music, comedy, the arts! Plenty of interest in that and that allows the ground to be used all year round. Add in hotels, shopping and leisure, business and conference spaces and improved sponsorship deals and there are income streams that hugely outweigh anything the club could generate from its present location.

NMcW initially gave an end of season timeline for "exciting news". I said at the time that this was optimistic and saw the end of the year as a more realistic date. However, Covid has put everything on hold, but I don't believe that it has stopped anything. It's hard to know when things will begin to return to normal, but a move is very much still on the agenda for when it does.

All of which would fit on the current footprint, not breach any covenants, not need protracted legal battles, not need as much cash......... ???
Attendances are driven by success not shiny stadia..... we have rarely had capacity issues ....ever.

 

[werthersoriginal]

Reading and Brighton aren’t football towns but they’ve had a boost from their new grounds. It needs to be the right ground and to be presented and marketed well - obviously just moving grounds didn’t do us any favours

 

[Scotchegg]

All of which would fit on the current footprint, not breach any covenants, not need protracted legal battles, not need as much cash......... ???
Attendances are driven by success not shiny stadia..... we have rarely had capacity issues ....ever.

The current footprint has a dated, cold and miserable stadium, budget hotel and cheap leisure facilities. The income from these is a fraction of what a new purpose built development would bring in.

You only need to look at the team of people involved with the club to see that legal battles and cash flow are no barriers. The stadium itself would be around £25m to buy. Double that for the entire site plus extra for bringing it up to speed. And then you have to take running costs out of any money coming in. They may offset the £3m it costs to run OUFC but there won't be much extra to cover the initial outlay.

Land in Oxford is not cheap, so you can possibly double the cost to buy the land and build a modern stadium complex. But if the location and associated businesses are right then they have a club that pays for itself and a decent profit to boot.

 

[RyanioBirdio]

I predict that we will leave the current stadium unless we don’t, in which case we won’t. I couldn’t possibly say which is more likely, or when a decision will be made. But we will or won’t leave, at some point going forward, or not at all.

I can’t say any more. I won’t.

 

[holdsteady]

I predict that we will leave the current stadium unless we don’t, in which case we won’t. I couldn’t possibly say which is more likely, or when a decision will be made. But we will or won’t leave, at some point going forward, or not at all.

I can’t say any more. I won’t.

I have read between the lines here and I think you are saying we are going to ground share with Milton Keynes while we build the new ground on top of the west gate centre?

 

[stokeu]

Let's get the TVR vibe back and play at the MadStad forever

 

[Scotchegg]

I predict that we will leave the current stadium unless we don’t, in which case we won’t. I couldn’t possibly say which is more likely, or when a decision will be made. But we will or won’t leave, at some point going forward, or not at all.

I can’t say any more. I won’t.

Please say more, you absolutely nailed it when you said the season would end 6 weeks after the Crewe game!!

 

[Essexyellows]

Reading and Brighton aren’t football towns but they’ve had a boost from their new grounds. It needs to be the right ground and to be presented and marketed well - obviously just moving grounds didn’t do us any favours

Brighton`s average gate at the Goldstone was around 10.5-11k.
Reading have consistently been of a similar size at Elm Park barring a drop off in the 70`s/80s.

Both have been more successful on the pitch and moved to new stadia.

Our average must sit around 6-7k irrespective of the ground and level of success.

It`ll be a brave investor that thinks we can successfully acquire a site, pay for it, build a new complex and be successful on the pitch in short order to get a return.

FK probably has the new short & curlies contract sat in the printer queue ready....

 

[werthersoriginal]

Brighton`s average gate at the Goldstone was around 10.5-11k.
Reading have consistently been of a similar size at Elm Park barring a drop off in the 70`s/80s.

Both have been more successful on the pitch and moved to new stadia.

Our average must sit around 6-7k irrespective of the ground and level of success.

It`ll be a brave investor that thinks we can successfully acquire a site, pay for it, build a new complex and be successful on the pitch in short order to get a return.

FK probably has the new short & curlies contract sat in the printer queue ready....

So Brighton have probably doubled. I’ve been to Elm Park, it was a dismal and apathetic place - surely their crowds are up? We could probably get up to 10K plus with an appealing ground, though it’s not going to turn us into Villa.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

I think it's debatable whether Oxford is a footballing city or not, and I guess that depends on what that even means.

Is football one of the essential 'glues' that holds the city together? No. If you asked people to say what they think about when they hear 'Oxford' I suspect 'football' would be a long way down the list (after the university, the dreaming spires, punting, the bloody boat race and the dictionary at the very least!). Even in our glory years, were the crowds consistently huge? No. Was the Manor a weekly sell out? No.

Much as I'd love to think that yellow blood runs thickly in the veins of the majority of the city's inhabitants - it simply doesn't.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

So Brighton have probably doubled. I’ve been to Elm Park, it was a dismal and apathetic place - surely their crowds are up? We could probably get up to 10K plus with an appealing ground, though it’s not going to turn us into Villa.

That's probably fair - at the moment we have a ground that holds 12.4K. IF someone was nice/daft/savvy (take your pick!) enough to build us a new ground, you probably wouldn't want anything much bigger than what we have now - although it should be designed to be easily expandable. Otherwise you end up with an MK Dons or Coventry at the Ricoh situation, where for the majority of games there are a few thousand people rattling about in a huge stadium.

 

[bazzer9461]

I think it's debatable whether Oxford is a footballing city or not, and I guess that depends on what that even means. Do we have the appetite for higher crowds? Yes. Last season saw several sell outs, and would have seen several more had the season completed as expected. And if that had led to our promotion then we could have easily added another few thousand through the gates. Covid has changed all that, but get things toght on the pitch and plenty of people will come - especially to a shiny new stadium.

But ignoring the football for one moment, modern stadiums offer so much more than football alone. There could be links to the university or other local sporting events. Live music, comedy, the arts! Plenty of interest in that and that allows the ground to be used all year round. Add in hotels, shopping and leisure, business and conference spaces and improved sponsorship deals and there are income streams that hugely outweigh anything the club could generate from its present location.

NMcW initially gave an end of season timeline for "exciting news". I said at the time that this was optimistic and saw the end of the year as a more realistic date. However, Covid has put everything on hold, but I don't believe that it has stopped anything. It's hard to know when things will begin to return to normal, but a move is very much still on the agenda for when it does.

I agree with what you are saying about NMW saying the end of the season time frame and obviously with the pandemic it has put the lockers on things,’but maybe a snippet of info as to where we are/we’re with the stadium issue.

 

[westyorkshireexile]

All of which would fit on the current footprint, not breach any covenants, not need protracted legal battles, not need as much cash......... ???
Attendances are driven by success not shiny stadia..... we have rarely had capacity issues ....ever.

You would not say that if you were crammed into the Manor in 1964 against Blackburn and PNE as I was together with approx. 22,000 other supporters.

 

[Sarge]

You would not say that if you were crammed into the Manor in 1964 against Blackburn and PNE as I was together with approx. 22,000 other supporters.

agree with that @westyorkshireexile .... ( and I was at both those matches too- not that I saw a lot of either game , being an ankle biter stood on the temporary scaffolding (?) terraces, on the Beech road side , close-ish to the London Road end)

 

[Scotchegg]

Is football one of the essential 'glues' that holds the city together? No. If you asked people to say what they think about when they hear 'Oxford' I suspect 'football' would be a long way down the list (after the university, the dreaming spires, punting, the bloody boat race and the dictionary at the very least!). Even in our glory years, were the crowds consistently huge? No. Was the Manor a weekly sell out? No.

Much as I'd love to think that yellow blood runs thickly in the veins of the majority of the city's inhabitants - it simply doesn't.

I think you could say the same about many places, but places evolve and there is no reason why football can't be the thing that brings the city together. We saw last season that games against West Ham, Sunderland, Man City, Wycombe, Lincoln and Newcastle crowds of 10k+. Had the season continued we'd have likely done the same for Portsmouth, Bristol Rovers and Bolton in the league with a sell out if we'd still made the playoffs.

If we build success on the pitch and a have a sustained period in the Championship, then there us no reason why we couldn't be seeing crowds of 15k on a regular basis and have a generation of new fans who do think "football" when they hear Oxford.

I know others may disagree, but there is huge potential both on and off the pitch and I choose to believe that anything is possible.

 

[Manorlounger]

People forget that a successful stadium is not just for football. The board, should it be them who invest, are not fixed on a football team for the financial returns.
The prospect of a multi purpose entertainment and community complex brings far more success than just a football team. If the team are successful, and we can all dream, then attendances will go up. Do not forget, OUFC played in the old first division against the big boys. Why shouldn't we do it again?

 

[arthurturner]

But the practicability of using and developing the existing place has never ever been the discussion.

The point is whether those who are prepared to fund us - whether buying Grenoble Road or starting afresh - are prepared to spend the money. You'd imagine that they would want a return on their investment. I for one can not see how spending that sort of money on a stadium that already requires millions more spent on it (repairs, completion of the existing fabric and potentially building a fourth stand and filling in the corners) would *ever* make sense. And no, a few rentals from flats and offices in the corners wouldn't pay for it! But never mind what I think - no investor has looked at it and managed to make sense of it either, or it would have already been done.

So while I agree that buying the current place is much more 'affordable' (relatively!) and that we *could* improve it a whole lot, I just can't see how we will get the money to do it. Of course, finding a suitable building plot and being able to afford to build on it is an equally baffling conundrum. I can't see any other option than us signing up with our 'custodian of the club' for another 25 years.

It's 20 years but your assessment is correct. Whether we like it or not, whoever is currently funding our club is not doing so for the love of OUFC. There will be no huge capital investment on either buying and remodelling the Kassam Stadium or developing a new stadium on a greenfield site unless it guarantees a worthwhile return. We are now just over 5 years away from the expiry of the current Licence Agreement to use the Stadium and unless an alternative presents itself then another 20 year licence with Firoka on the same terms at no doubt an increased rent and service charge is where we're going. The club continue to talk up progress on a new site but even if one has already been identified, getting it through all the bureaucracy, politics and planning before a spade can be put to work on not only a stadium but the related commercial infrastructure that would be neede to justify the investment, could easily take 5 years and more. And one further thought. Covid has radically changed how commerce is likely to operate in the future and that has serious consequences for commercial property investment and development going forward. It gives me no pleasure to say all this, but that is the reality with which we are faced.

 

[Victor1986]

To buy the stadium will not be £25m Scotchers. Even with planning permission (assuming Community Protection can be removed) you are looking at just over half that. And this figure is key because moving away and buying a green field site will cost much more before you start building anything after, what 5 years, of planning trauma. The simple equation for FK is what can he get for building houses on the stadium footprint? He won't build he will sell - but nobody will buy without planning and the recently adopted structure plan has the Kassam as a community facility for many years to come.
Most people cannot see how unappealing buildings can be transformed into smart, workable places, but if we can get our hands on the existing stadium I really do feel it can be a great home for OUFC.

 

[arthurturner]

People forget that a successful stadium is not just for football. The board, should it be them who invest, are not fixed on a football team for the financial returns.
The prospect of a multi purpose entertainment and community complex brings far more success than just a football team. If the team are successful, and we can all dream, then attendances will go up. Do not forget, OUFC played in the old first division against the big boys. Why shouldn't we do it again?

If only the City Council had that vision 20 odd years ago .They could have built a multi purpose community stadium and made the profit on the Manor that they allowed FK to. It should be to their eternal shame that they didn't.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

I know others may disagree, but there is huge potential both on and off the pitch and I choose to believe that anything is possible.

We will have to agree to disagree. But I would *love* to be wrong about the likelihood of a new stadium.