Potential New Ground

[Northernyellow]

Looking at kassams perspective. He would i imagine want to knock down and sell the land for housing. More $$$ . Maybe he would do a deal to buy us out of the lease contract / permission from councils.

Am I right in thinking Kassam could make £80m or so from selling that site as residential. But that we can block that sale if we choose to renew our lease? And that there is a restrictive covenant on thst ground for sporting use only? If that is correct, then this is the only chance we have of escape. He may (?) be willing to pay us to leave on condition we apply to have the covenant lifted and agree to go. If he can realise £80m in the next 2-3 years, that's far more attractive than getting £500k per annum rental. Can anyone who knows the details comment?

 

[Essexyellows]

Removal of a restrictive covenant has to go to the Lands Tribunal and that process is both costly and takes on average 2 years to complete.
The owner, or interested parties, have to prove the covenant is no longer reasonable.
As it is a fairly new covenant it will be enforceable and legally valid, eg: not something applied 100 years ago.
The chances of that being lifted without a large amount of £££`s changing hands are, at best, slim.

Where our estate was built, in the 1940s-50s the land previously belonged to a teetotal religious bod so we aren`t allowed a pub within the parish, and plenty of folk have tried!
That covenant dates to around 1900 and is still seen as enforceable and valid.

 

[Oxymoron]

Back of a fag packet....

There is a quarter acre plot nearby that has outline planning permission and is up for sale for a million - whether it will realise that amount remains to be seen, but it has a lot less baggage than the Kasssm.

The whole plot sold to Kassam was 10 acres, but a fair bit of that is now taken up with hotels and the Ozone (with associated car parking), so there may only be 5-6 acres available for development and there would be considerable legal obstacles to overcome before any planning was granted.

On that basis, I think Kassam would be lucky to get £25m for the site and with Grenoble Road now a free hit for the likes of Taylor Wimpey, he's probably lost a bit off the top of that .....

 

[Essexyellows]

Back of a fag packet....

There is a quarter acre plot nearby that has outline planning permission and is up for sale for a million - whether it will realise that amount remains to be seen, but it has a lot less baggage than the Kasssm.

The whole plot sold to Kassam was 10 acres, but a fair bit of that is now taken up with hotels and the Ozone (with associated car parking), so there may only be 5-6 acres available for development and there would be considerable legal obstacles to overcome before any planning was granted.

On that basis, I think Kassam would be lucky to get £25m for the site and with Grenoble Road now a free hit for the likes of Taylor Wimpey, he's probably lost a bit off the top of that .....

Exactly this!
Despite the current condition of the breeze block the "heavy lifting" has been done.
The footings for the West stand sit under the car park, the corners could be filled in with what ever suits be it accommodation/smart offices etc.
Some imaginative thinking, current circumstances precluded, and the potential is there.

A.N.Other site of suitable size & location from scratch is going to be far outside of our budget.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

But the practicability of using and developing the existing place has never ever been the discussion.

The point is whether those who are prepared to fund us - whether buying Grenoble Road or starting afresh - are prepared to spend the money. You'd imagine that they would want a return on their investment. I for one can not see how spending that sort of money on a stadium that already requires millions more spent on it (repairs, completion of the existing fabric and potentially building a fourth stand and filling in the corners) would *ever* make sense. And no, a few rentals from flats and offices in the corners wouldn't pay for it! But never mind what I think - no investor has looked at it and managed to make sense of it either, or it would have already been done.

So while I agree that buying the current place is much more 'affordable' (relatively!) and that we *could* improve it a whole lot, I just can't see how we will get the money to do it. Of course, finding a suitable building plot and being able to afford to build on it is an equally baffling conundrum. I can't see any other option than us signing up with our 'custodian of the club' for another 25 years.

 

[Manorlounger]

Exactly this!
Despite the current condition of the breeze block the "heavy lifting" has been done.
The footings for the West stand sit under the car park, the corners could be filled in with what ever suits be it accommodation/smart offices etc.
Some imaginative thinking, current circumstances precluded, and the potential is there.

A.N.Other site of suitable size & location from scratch is going to be far outside of our budget.

But what is "our" budget? There are some very big hitters in the property world on the board. They may have thoughts along other lines to just improving a decaying lump of concrete in the middle of a potential housing estate.

 

[Manorlounger]

But the practicability of using and developing the existing place has never ever been the discussion.

The point is whether those who are prepared to fund us - whether buying Grenoble Road or starting afresh - are prepared to spend the money. You'd imagine that they would want a return on their investment. I for one can not see how spending that sort of money on a stadium that already requires millions more spent on it (repairs, completion of the existing fabric and potentially building a fourth stand and filling in the corners) would *ever* make sense. And no, a few rentals from flats and offices in the corners wouldn't pay for it! But never mind what I think - no investor has looked at it and managed to make sense of it either, or it would have already been done.

So while I agree that buying the current place is much more 'affordable' (relatively!) and that we *could* improve it a whole lot, I just can't see how we will get the money to do it. Of course, finding a suitable building plot and being able to afford to build on it is an equally baffling conundrum. I can't see any other option than us signing up with our 'custodian of the club' for another 25 years.

I would agree with 100% but for the last part of your post. I still believe that with a prevailing political wind, the club will find a suitable plot to build on within the city boundaries or, at the very least, a plot which could become within the city boundaries. Much like Greater Leys did when built.
Signing up to FK again just isn't viable.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

I would agree with 100% but for the last part of your post. I still believe that with a prevailing political wind, the club will find a suitable plot to build on within the city boundaries or, at the very least, a plot which could become within the city boundaries. Much like Greater Leys did when built.
Signing up to FK again just isn't viable.

I would like not to agree with myself on that last part as well! I would *much* prefer us to move to somewhere more hospitable, better built and that somehow (shops, housing, offices) generates an income that means the club is not solely responsible for paying for it.
I just don't think it is going to happen. Oxford is not a 'football city' - the city's two clubs are peripheral to the main focus of the town, are geographically not at the heart of things and do not give the city much of it's identity, unlike (say) Manchester, Liverpool or even many smaller places. And if it doesn't mean that much to many people (except as passing interest, a back page in the OM or when we get to Wembley) then there is little or no pressure on local politicians to be that bothered either about considering the interests of either of the city's clubs. Especially when opposition to building a new stadium by various interest groups would mean having to nail their colours to the mast.
And if my pessimism in that is correct, whether signing up again is viable or not - it may be the only option apart from us all just going home and watching the Prem on the telly...

 

[Manorlounger]

I would like not to agree with myself on that last part as well! I would *much* prefer us to move to somewhere more hospitable, better built and that somehow (shops, housing, offices) generates an income that means the club is not solely responsible for paying for it.
I just don't think it is going to happen. Oxford is not a 'football city' - the city's two clubs are peripheral to the main focus of the town, are geographically not at the heart of things and do not give the city much of it's identity, unlike (say) Manchester, Liverpool or even many smaller places. And if it doesn't mean that much to many people (except as passing interest, a back page in the OM or when we get to Wembley) then there is little or no pressure on local politicians to be that bothered either about considering the interests of either of the city's clubs. Especially when opposition to building a new stadium by various interest groups would mean having to nail their colours to the mast.
And if my pessimism in that is correct, whether signing up again is viable or not - it may be the only option apart from us all just going home and watching the Prem on the telly...

It's a depressing thought!

 

[Steve Gilbert]

I would like not to agree with myself on that last part as well! I would *much* prefer us to move to somewhere more hospitable, better built and that somehow (shops, housing, offices) generates an income that means the club is not solely responsible for paying for it.
I just don't think it is going to happen. Oxford is not a 'football city' - the city's two clubs are peripheral to the main focus of the town, are geographically not at the heart of things and do not give the city much of it's identity, unlike (say) Manchester, Liverpool or even many smaller places. And if it doesn't mean that much to many people (except as passing interest, a back page in the OM or when we get to Wembley) then there is little or no pressure on local politicians to be that bothered either about considering the interests of either of the city's clubs. Especially when opposition to building a new stadium by various interest groups would mean having to nail their colours to the mast.
And if my pessimism in that is correct, whether signing up again is viable or not - it may be the only option apart from us all just going home and watching the Prem on the telly...

Nail on the head with regards to Oxford not being a footballing city. People go on about the catchment area and how many fans we could pull in but if the appetite isn’t there then there is only so much the club can do.
We have never had massive crowds and I believe we wouldn’t need a stadium any bigger than what we have now or at max 15000.
The problem is that with the Kassam it is big stands and spread out. I’d much rather building a smaller, more compact stadium which is closer to the pitch where fans can really feel part of the game.

Having said all that, I can’t see it happening anytime soon!

 

[Wallop]

But what is "our" budget? There are some very big hitters in the property world on the board. They may have thoughts along other lines to just improving a decaying lump of concrete in the middle of a potential housing estate.

Exactly - our big hitters aren't here just to build a football stadium but rather all that could go with it. The area near the sewage works isn't the most attractive in terms of a destination that families may want to go to.

 

[Essexyellows]

But what is "our" budget? There are some very big hitters in the property world on the board. They may have thoughts along other lines to just improving a decaying lump of concrete in the middle of a potential housing estate.

Hopefully something realistic and not pie in the sky dreams.
That housing estate will have hundreds or thousands of potential customers so not a bad place for a "decaying lump of concrete".
A City site would be very expensive and many years of wrangling with the locals.... again.
An edge of City site detracts from the brand.
A site within the new City limits........

 

[Oxymoron]

All the above is sound and I believe that the club is looking away from the current site, but with the new development, Kassam is no longer sitting holding all the cards and potentially may be looking at a stadium with no tenant in a couple of years and no developer really interested in the site.

I'm sure many would see that as karma but our money men may find that the price to buy has become much more attractive than it was when they first embarked on this project - a purchase at the right price could even be a stop-gap solution to the "where will we play while it's being built" quandary.......

 

[Essexyellows]

How many years of legal wrangling did we go through to start at GR?
The running out of money bit was a bit careless and delayed things until FK started "the journey"..... at least he got most of it built thanks to some swift shifting of ownership, Manor site sales and the like.
Didn`t he also have to pay off Les W and resolve a fair few other legal loose ends?

We could start the whole shenanigans all over again.......

 

[bazzer9461]

I would like not to agree with myself on that last part as well! I would *much* prefer us to move to somewhere more hospitable, better built and that somehow (shops, housing, offices) generates an income that means the club is not solely responsible for paying for it.
I just don't think it is going to happen. Oxford is not a 'football city' - the city's two clubs are peripheral to the main focus of the town, are geographically not at the heart of things and do not give the city much of it's identity, unlike (say) Manchester, Liverpool or even many smaller places. And if it doesn't mean that much to many people (except as passing interest, a back page in the OM or when we get to Wembley) then there is little or no pressure on local politicians to be that bothered either about considering the interests of either of the city's clubs. Especially when opposition to building a new stadium by various interest groups would mean having to nail their colours to the mast.
And if my pessimism in that is correct, whether signing up again is viable or not - it may be the only option apart from us all just going home and watching the Prem on the telly...

I do agree with your comment about Oxford not being a football city. It always annoys me when I read in the OM that the city council are doing what they can for OUFC which to be frank is total bollox.
If the OCC did want to help we would have by now seen something positive, but alas that will never happen.

 

[bazzer9461]

I know we have a pandemic at the moment and I know it’s causing many logistical problems, but I thought NMW said we would here by the end of last season something about the stadium issue, and before anyone comes out and says do I know there are more pressing matters at the moment, yes I am aware of the pandemic but his comments sounding like there was some light at the end of the tunnel and I do appreciate it may have taken a back seat for the time being but maybe an update might give some good news.

 

[OUFCGav]

How many years of legal wrangling did we go through to start at GR?
The running out of money bit was a bit careless and delayed things until FK started "the journey"..... at least he got most of it built thanks to some swift shifting of ownership, Manor site sales and the like.
Didn`t he also have to pay off Les W and resolve a fair few other legal loose ends?

We could start the whole shenanigans all over again.......

add to that all the previous attempts to move going back to the 70s. There were several tries in the Maxwell era alone.

 

[WokinghamYellow]

Things would look very different in the city and to investors if we were a championship club. Losing that play off final has really set us back a lot

 

[holdsteady]

If I had to put money on it I would go with us getting new owners before the ground situation is sorted out, with those new owners or the ones after them, agreeing to a new lease with Kassam with ever so slightly improved terms.

 

[Scotchegg]

I think it's debatable whether Oxford is a footballing city or not, and I guess that depends on what that even means. Do we have the appetite for higher crowds? Yes. Last season saw several sell outs, and would have seen several more had the season completed as expected. And if that had led to our promotion then we could have easily added another few thousand through the gates. Covid has changed all that, but get things toght on the pitch and plenty of people will come - especially to a shiny new stadium.

But ignoring the football for one moment, modern stadiums offer so much more than football alone. There could be links to the university or other local sporting events. Live music, comedy, the arts! Plenty of interest in that and that allows the ground to be used all year round. Add in hotels, shopping and leisure, business and conference spaces and improved sponsorship deals and there are income streams that hugely outweigh anything the club could generate from its present location.

NMcW initially gave an end of season timeline for "exciting news". I said at the time that this was optimistic and saw the end of the year as a more realistic date. However, Covid has put everything on hold, but I don't believe that it has stopped anything. It's hard to know when things will begin to return to normal, but a move is very much still on the agenda for when it does.