Potential New Ground

[OX14]

You can listen to the interview again. Zaki said specifically that any new stadium would be the same as the new training ground agreement. The new training ground agreement is that the club can run the facility and if it can make it profitable then fair play, but it doesn’t own the training ground. It is basically a sub-let situation and OUFC has precisely no outright ownership of the facility or the land. Someone else owns it, they get to ‘run’ it, and they can benefit from it if it goes well. But they don’t own anything. It is essentially renting it in a manner than allows the club to potentially make a profit, but it owns nothing. No assets are in the club’s name and it has no ownership at all of any bricks and mortar. So when someone on the board says “it would be the same as the training ground” the end result is that OUFC owns nothing. It can still be beneficial, especially compared to the current circumstances at the wind tunnel, but the club doesn’t own the stadium in that scenario. It might get free use of it and have the chance to maximise revenue which might totally offset cost, but it doesn’t own the ground.

If Zaki was sloppy with his words that’s a different issue for them to address, but based on precisely what he said, Oxford United would not own a football stadium. It would merely get very favourable terms of use. As I said, this could still be very beneficial, but it is not ownership of any kind based on those words.

Which clubs above us actually own their stadium, it's normally a chairman, board or council that owns it rather than the club itself?

 

[MJB]

Tbf, the lease would be an asset and if the terms are favourable (ie. like the training ground, keep the income, no/low rent) then that would still be a massive improvement on the current situation.

Why would it be an asset for the club? A lease is a lease, no matter how long it is for.

 

[OX14]

Why would it be an asset for the club? A lease is a lease, no matter how long it is for.

It wouldn't be an asset the same as the training ground is not. Training ground is just a very good lease where there is no rent.

 

[RyanioBirdio]

Tbf, the lease would be an asset and if the terms are favourable (ie. like the training ground, keep the income, no/low rent) then that would still be a massive improvement on the current situation.

Never denied that. I agree. But let’s be accurate and listen to what people say.

 

[Foley]

Why would it be an asset for the club? A lease is a lease, no matter how long it is for.

It depends how you define asset.
If it was like the training ground with no charge for it and the opportunity to take the profits from the facilities, I would say that is one hell of an asset.

 

[MJB]

It depends how you define asset.
If it was like the training ground with no charge for it and the opportunity to take the profits from the facilities, I would say that is one hell of an asset.

I’m talking about assets in our ownership, rather than long term rents, no matter how favourable the terms might be.

 

[OX14]

I’m talking about assets in our ownership, rather than long term rents, no matter how favourable the terms might be.

So would people class the stadium as an asset. If tiger struck a 25 year lease with kassam where we have full control of the whole stadium, no rent and can use it and redevelop it however we want, even change the name.?

 

[LondonRoader]

Off set against future income from moving up the football pyramid, developing and selling players and/or associated income from stadium and additional retail/leisure business.

Put this is all pie in the sky fantasy thinking to you, so feel free to come to your own conclusions.

Can act like an adult a bit more, people might take you a bit more seriously then.

 

[Scotchegg]

Can act like an adult a bit more, people might take you a bit more seriously then.

There are a few people who have some understanding of the direction the club is going in. But you are fixated on a bizarre view that a new stadium would never be viable and therefore refuse to see what is becoming clearer to so many.

That's why it is very difficult to engage in any conversation with you on this subject, and whatever is said will you draw your own conclusions. Not sure why that isn't an adult position to take?

 

[daveoufc]

Hopefully the club carries on for another 100+ years thats a lot of rent talk of long term sustainability then no more leasing/renting for me buy the kassam now if its for sale.
The most annoying thing for me is we have done the hard years watched the s**t football when players werent up to it or even trying sometimes and would of virtually paid it off out of our season ticket monies by now.

 

[LondonRoader]

There are a few people who have some understanding of the direction the club is going in. But you are fixated on a bizarre view that a new stadium would never be viable and therefore refuse to see what is becoming clearer to so many.

That's why it is very difficult to engage in any conversation with you on this subject, and whatever is said will you draw your own conclusions. Not sure why that isn't an adult position to take?

Off set against future income from moving up the football pyramid, developing and selling players and/or associated income from stadium and additional retail/leisure business.

But this is all pie in the sky fantasy thinking to you, so feel free to come to your own conclusions.

So to clarify what you said, the last 12 months of real investment is being off set against selling players and trying to get promotion which will cost more money that we receive.

 

[MarkG]

There are a few people who have some understanding of the direction the club is going in. But you are fixated on a bizarre view that a new stadium would never be viable and therefore refuse to see what is becoming clearer to so many.

That's why it is very difficult to engage in any conversation with you on this subject, and whatever is said will you draw your own conclusions. Not sure why that isn't an adult position to take?

There’s also a few people who can see what happened at Reading. After the land grab, the club was up for sale as the owners couldn’t fund it.

Let’s not forget our friendly director ZN was involved too, Floreat lending money to Reading secured on parachute payments if I recall correctly.

 

[Foley]

There’s also a few people who can see what happened at Reading. After the land grab, the club was up for sale as the owners couldn’t fund it.

Let’s not forget our friendly director ZN was involved too, Floreat lending money to Reading secured on parachute payments if I recall correctly.

I totally get what happened at Reading Mark.
We currently have no assets where Tiger and Reading associates could make money.
I have always assumed that the plan was to build a Ground and the money to be made by the owners/ investors is to be made from the retail/ hotel opportunities.
This is the only way that they can make money other than sell the club in the Championship with the Brannagan, Lopes, Dickie, Spasov type players?

 

[Scotchegg]

So to clarify what you said, the last 12 months of real investment is being off set against selling players and trying to get promotion which will cost more money that we receive.

What I said was that investment now is offset against future earnings.

Earnings come in different ways. Promotion would see an increase in attendance and significantly more tv money. Of course transfers/wages would increase but it wouldn't be impossible to see this squad survive without spending millions. We would also be more likely to have increases in sponsorship and merchandise etc.

Also, promotion would increase the value of our players. Dickie could be worth £2m now, but £5m as a Championship player. Brannagan, Fosu, Moore etc would all see a significant jump on their valuation if they were part of a promotion team.

Earnings also increase as you reduce costs. The development of our youth players will mean that we will need to spend less in transfer fees as we bring our players through.

Should we then get our own stadium (new or developed), it gives a greater opportunity to earn money from all matchday revenue and possible addition leisure/retail businesses.

These are all for the long term. We made decent money from the sale of Gavin Whyte, sell on with Roofe and cup runs so have covered our costs on that alone at this stage.

 

[Wallop]

There’s also a few people who can see what happened at Reading. After the land grab, the club was up for sale as the owners couldn’t fund it.

Let’s not forget our friendly director ZN was involved too, Floreat lending money to Reading secured on parachute payments if I recall correctly.

Yes - that also worries me. On the fans forum, it was stated that the Directors' had left Reading Football Club in a better state than when they had taken over. I have no idea if that is true or not and I suspect it can be subjective depending on your view but can others provide some detail/thoughts on this?

Secondly thank you RyanBirdio for the further detail on leasehold arrangements - very helpful. So is one scenario that the investors fund a stadium and then lease it to the club for 25 years at say I don't know £750k rent per annum and not let the club keep any of the revenues . I'm not suggesting for one minute that they would but if that's a possibility, then it sounds awfully familiar.

Don't get me wrong, I'm very impressed with our current ownership and the progress we are making as a club but this is too important a subject not to keep a close eye on it.

 

[LondonRoader]

The last 12 months have resolved many of those fears with real investment in the playing squad, the training ground and the day to day running of the club. Nothing is being done on the cheap, and nothing is for short term returns.
[/QUOTE]
Thats what you said, nothing about the future.
So you are saying that’s being paid for by selling players and trying for promotion.

 

[Foley]

Yes - that also worries me. On the fans forum, it was stated that the Directors' had left Reading Football Club in a better state than when they had taken over. I have no idea if that is true or not and I suspect it can be subjective depending on your view but can others provide some detail/thoughts on this?

Secondly thank you RyanBirdio for the further detail on leasehold arrangements - very helpful. So is one scenario that the investors fund a stadium and then lease it to the club for 25 years at say I don't know £750k rent per annum and not let the club keep any of the revenues . I'm not suggesting for one minute that they would but if that's a possibility, then it sounds awfully familiar.

Don't get me wrong, I'm very impressed with our current ownership and the progress we are making as a club but this is too important a subject not to keep a close eye on it.

This is the worst case scenario if there is a new ground.
And of course the risk to the owners is that there is a big possibility that there is no IL/ Merry round the corner to agree to buy the club with such a poor lease/ licence.
The indications I have seen have suggested that the council want some involvement. The ideal ( as suggested by Oxvox when they were looking at buying the Kassam) is that the ground becomes a community asset meaning that no new owner can ever sell the ground.
From the clubs perspective that could be the best option long term.
As others have said, it is likely that we will find out more before the end of the season (McWilliams said we definitely would hear by then)

 

[LondonRoader]

It depends how you define asset.
If it was like the training ground with no charge for it and the opportunity to take the profits from the facilities, I would say that is one hell of an asset.

I think we have a few assets on the pitch.

 

[Foley]

I think we have a few assets on the pitch.

Totally agree

 

[Scotchegg]

The last 12 months have resolved many of those fears with real investment in the playing squad, the training ground and the day to day running of the club. Nothing is being done on the cheap, and nothing is for short term returns.

Thats what you said, nothing about the future.
So you are saying that’s being paid for by selling players and trying for promotion.
[/QUOTE]

Please read my posts.