International News Immigration

[chuckbert]

What’s Australia’s policy on illegal immigration then ?

You mean offshore detention like this? https://www.theguardian.com/austral...-evil-being-done-on-manus-will-outlive-us-all

 

[lodeyellow]

I see the Home Office has gone full-on fascist with its video of asylum seekers being rounded up and put in vans. Will probably appeal to the racists and xenophobes among us ahead of tomorrow’s elections. But others will find it absolutely disgusting.

I also see that some of the Tory mayors have turned to the discredited liar and charlatan Boris Johnson to boost their campaign ahead of tomorrow.

Says all you need to know about the current Conservative Party ..,

 

[Wandering Yellow]

I see the Home Office has gone full-on fascist with its video of asylum seekers being rounded up and put in vans. Will probably appeal to the racists and xenophobes among us ahead of tomorrow’s elections. But others will find it absolutely disgusting.

I also see that some of the Tory mayors have turned to the discredited liar and charlatan Boris Johnson to boost their campaign ahead of tomorrow.

Says all you need to know about the current Conservative Party ..,

If you enter illegally you should expect to be sent back.

What is supposed to be "fascist" about that, I have no idea.

If someone randomly walked in your house, you would call the police and want them removed.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

If you enter illegally you should expect to be sent back.

What is supposed to be "fascist" about that, I have no idea.

If someone randomly walked in your house, you would call the police and want them removed.

Wow. . . . some HUGE leaps being made there.

I think for a lot of people, the reason why someone had entered your house might be a factor in determining whether or not you call in the fuzz. What if they genuinely needed your help?

I guess Thatcher can sleep soundly in her crypt knowing that there truly is no such thing as society. . . . job done! Samaritans, take note!

Maybe describing it as Fascist in the purest sense of the word is wrong, but it is not difficult to imagine that fascists would also do something like this (either that or round them up and put them in forced labour camps if they're proper old school). We probably do need a different word to describe the type of people who think it is perfectly OK to de-humanise, criminalise and remove people because the government can't be arsed to spend the time and money on providing enough capacity to process them here (or in France, for example)properly.

I mean who knows, you might well find that adequate processing capacity both on this and the other side of the channel not only actually deters the small boats more than the threat of a couple of hundred of the many thousands making the crossing being removed to Rwanda (with the added disbenefit of gumming up the legal system in the process), but also proves to be more cost effective in the long run

 

[Essexyellows]

From all accounts it's just a really sad story about an economic migrant and his family. He didn't want his daughter to live out a soulless, restricted life in Iraq and was doing everything he could to prevent that. I doubt he would have been successful in claiming asylum in the UK. When you see the way women are treated in some Muslim countries* it possible we may have acted similarly in his circumstance.

*

Saudi Arabia activist sentenced to 11 years in prison for ‘support’ of women’s rights

Manahel al-Otaibi, who promoted female empowerment on social media, was arrested under anti-terror laws

www.theguardian.com

The same as other EU countries then?

Hold on, these Muslim folk are perfect examples of a civilised society aren't they? All full of joy, equality & integration................ oh....maybe not.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

The same as other EU countries then?

Hold on, these Muslim folk are perfect examples of a civilised society aren't they? All full of joy, equality & integration................ oh....maybe not.

Yeah...if only all 2 billion of them were more like you, the world would be a more tolerant, understanding, supportive and harmonious place wouldn't it?

 

[MustardYellow]

I see the Home Office has gone full-on fascist with its video of asylum seekers being rounded up and put in vans. Will probably appeal to the racists and xenophobes among us ahead of tomorrow’s elections. But others will find it absolutely disgusting.

I also see that some of the Tory mayors have turned to the discredited liar and charlatan Boris Johnson to boost their campaign ahead of tomorrow.

Says all you need to know about the current Conservative Party ..,

It has nothing to do with 'racists' and 'xenophobes'. The Home Office, police etc are constantly posting images and videos glorifying arrests. Is that only a bad thing when it happens to immigrants? I'd say it's a bad thing full stop, but that doesn't make it 'racist'.

 

[MustardYellow]

Wow. . . . some HUGE leaps being made there.

I think for a lot of people, the reason why someone had entered your house might be a factor in determining whether or not you call in the fuzz. What if they genuinely needed your help?

I guess Thatcher can sleep soundly in her crypt knowing that there truly is no such thing as society. . . . job done! Samaritans, take note!

Maybe describing it as Fascist in the purest sense of the word is wrong, but it is not difficult to imagine that fascists would also do something like this (either that or round them up and put them in forced labour camps if they're proper old school). We probably do need a different word to describe the type of people who think it is perfectly OK to de-humanise, criminalise and remove people because the government can't be arsed to spend the time and money on providing enough capacity to process them here (or in France, for example)properly.

I mean who knows, you might well find that adequate processing capacity both on this and the other side of the channel not only actually deters the small boats more than the threat of a couple of hundred of the many thousands making the crossing being removed to Rwanda (with the added disbenefit of gumming up the legal system in the process), but also proves to be more cost effective in the long run

I don't think this is a very good example. Someone being in danger doesn't give them the right to bash down someone else's door and potentially put them and their family in danger too.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

I don't think this is a very good example. Someone being in danger doesn't give them the right to bash down someone else's door and potentially put them and their family in danger too.

You said "randomly walked into your house", you didn't say forced entry intent on injury/theft/harm, where you could presume a threat.

Comparing someone breaking and entering your house with the possible intent of harming you or stealing your property is also a very bad example to use in comparison to people arriving in small boats, unless your trying to tell us that their intent is to cause us harm?

Unless you TALK to them (and process the information you are given) how will you ever know.

If you go through life in fear of everything, then your world is going to be a very sad, small, lonely and paranoid place. STEP AWAY FROM THE DAILY MAIL ARTICLES

 

[SteMerritt]

I don't think this is a very good example. Someone being in danger doesn't give them the right to bash down someone else's door and potentially put them and their family in danger too.

Isn't that exactly what happened in Liverpool last year, resulting in some scrote running through someone's house whilst being chased ending with the young girl living there getting shot?

 

[Wandering Yellow]

You said "randomly walked into your house", you didn't say forced entry intent on injury/theft/harm, where you could presume a threat.

Comparing someone breaking and entering your house with the possible intent of harming you or stealing your property is also a very bad example to use in comparison to people arriving in small boats, unless your trying to tell us that their intent is to cause us harm?

Unless you TALK to them (and process the information you are given) how will you ever know.

If you go through life in fear of everything, then your world is going to be a very sad, small, lonely and paranoid place. STEP AWAY FROM THE DAILY MAIL ARTICLES

They will likely claim to be gay christians, something impossible to disprove.

 

[MustardYellow]

You said "randomly walked into your house", you didn't say forced entry intent on injury/theft/harm, where you could presume a threat.

Comparing someone breaking and entering your house with the possible intent of harming you or stealing your property is also a very bad example to use in comparison to people arriving in small boats, unless your trying to tell us that their intent is to cause us harm?

Unless you TALK to them (and process the information you are given) how will you ever know.

If you go through life in fear of everything, then your world is going to be a very sad, small, lonely and paranoid place. STEP AWAY FROM THE DAILY MAIL ARTICLES

Well first of all, I didn't say that at all Secondly, it's sort of irrelevant. Being in danger doesn't give you the right to enter someone else's home and put them and their family in danger, regardless of the specifics on how you enter the house.

We don't know what their intent is, which is part of the point here. If a complete stranger enters your home are you going to invite them to sit down in your living room, give them some cash and explain why they've just broken in, or is it more likely you're just going to tell them to f**k off?

I don't think it has much to do with fear, it's more to do with fairness.

 

[MustardYellow]

Isn't that exactly what happened in Liverpool last year, resulting in some scrote running through someone's house whilst being chased ending with the young girl living there getting shot?

Yep. And even worse, in that specific example he didn't even technically 'break in'. The mum opened the door and he just barged through, proving my point that being in danger doesn't give you the right to put others in it too!!

 

[Marston Road yellow]

The same as other EU countries then?

Hold on, these Muslim folk are perfect examples of a civilised society aren't they? All full of joy, equality & integration................ oh....maybe not.

Um……really……. we’re going after whole swathes of people based on their faith now?

Not sure what your real world experience of Muslims ( along with Jews, Christians, Hindus etc) is but that is one hell of a sweeping statement.

I’ll bet you’re not an islamaphobe either….

 

[Sheik djibouti]

Well first of all, I didn't say that at all Secondly, it's sort of irrelevant. Being in danger doesn't give you the right to enter someone else's home and put them and their family in danger, regardless of the specifics on how you enter the house.

We don't know what their intent is, which is part of the point here. If a complete stranger enters your home are you going to invite them to sit down in your living room, give them some cash and explain why they've just broken in, or is it more likely you're just going to tell them to f**k off?

I don't think it has much to do with fear, it's more to do with fairness.

Sorry - you are right, Wandering Yellow said it, but you're easily confused because you make pretty much the same points ad infinitum.

Unfortunately we are living in a society (whatever is left of the concept of society) that is in large parts kept permanently paranoid, scared, insular and feeling hard done by. Once you work out who benefits from keeping you in this constant state of fear and loathing and in need of having someone to blame for all your ills, you might begin to understand just how manipulated you are.

The likelihood of ANY of the scenarios you fear actually happening to you or anyone else for that matter, are remote in the extreme, but because you've either seen it in the media/whatever your chosen platform for consuming "news" might be, or they have given you the impression "IT COULD HAPPEN TO YOU!!" you're kind of falling for it hook line and sinker.

If you want to rail against anything, why not the absolute abject failure of this government to provide health, education and wider society with the tools and resources it needs to tackle a very clear mental health problem that exists in this country?

Finally, I think your concept of fairness is an odd one. Is it just the c50k per year who come illegally that you feel cheated by, or the c750k who come here legally (the vast majority for work and study) too?

 

[Wandering Yellow]

Sorry - you are right, Wandering Yellow said it, but you're easily confused because you make pretty much the same points ad infinitum.

Unfortunately we are living in a society (whatever is left of the concept of society) that is in large parts kept permanently paranoid, scared, insular and feeling hard done by. Once you work out who benefits from keeping you in this constant state of fear and loathing and in need of having someone to blame for all your ills, you might begin to understand just how manipulated you are.

The likelihood of ANY of the scenarios you fear actually happening to you or anyone else for that matter, are remote in the extreme, but because you've either seen it in the media/whatever your chosen platform for consuming "news" might be, or they have given you the impression "IT COULD HAPPEN TO YOU!!" you're kind of falling for it hook line and sinker.

If you want to rail against anything, why not the absolute abject failure of this government to provide health, education and wider society with the tools and resources it needs to tackle a very clear mental health problem that exists in this country?

Finally, I think your concept of fairness is an odd one. Is it just the c50k per year who come illegally that you feel cheated by, or the c750k who come here legally (the vast majority for work and study) too?

If you took the time to read threads, you would know me and Mustard disagree on a lot! So your first comment is very strange.

I would be left wing on many issues (drug legalisation, renationalising of trains, cutting tax loopholes) almost too many to name.

Immigration is one topic where I seem to have more of a "right wing" view, because the views of some on the left on it are painfully naive. It wasn't so long ago left and right both strongly believed in the need for international borders.

We should know exactly who is coming here, nobody should slip through without proper checks and endanger the lives of people. One day this ridiculousness in the Channel where people pay criminal gangs will end up killing people. If we did stop any boats from the get go, there would be no incentive to endanger your life to get here, the criminal gangs imply the UK is paved with gold, which I guess compared to the way these people are treated by France it is.

Mass immigration is to the benefit of the wealthy classes, it causes wage suppression which keeps wages low, ideal for rich people. Rich people will also of course live in gated communities and lovely Cotswold villages away from people who live in the milieu of a society which has imported huge amounts of people with different languages and values in a tiny amount of time, leading to little integration and huge societal pressures as well as pressures on local services. And then they will sneer at the people who actually have to live in these places as being "racist."

The situation is wholly ludicrous and our nations policy towards immigration has been little short of insanity for about 40 years.

 

[bashamwonderland]

Sorry - you are right, Wandering Yellow said it, but you're easily confused because you make pretty much the same points ad infinitum.

Unfortunately we are living in a society (whatever is left of the concept of society) that is in large parts kept permanently paranoid, scared, insular and feeling hard done by. Once you work out who benefits from keeping you in this constant state of fear and loathing and in need of having someone to blame for all your ills, you might begin to understand just how manipulated you are.

The likelihood of ANY of the scenarios you fear actually happening to you or anyone else for that matter, are remote in the extreme, but because you've either seen it in the media/whatever your chosen platform for consuming "news" might be, or they have given you the impression "IT COULD HAPPEN TO YOU!!" you're kind of falling for it hook line and sinker.

If you want to rail against anything, why not the absolute abject failure of this government to provide health, education and wider society with the tools and resources it needs to tackle a very clear mental health problem that exists in this country?

Finally, I think your concept of fairness is an odd one. Is it just the c50k per year who come illegally that you feel cheated by, or the c750k who come here legally (the vast majority for work and study) too?

This argument is always such a cop out.

It's just taking the usual "shady overlords" conspiracy theory (historically an antisemitic trope) and tweaking it such that the scary "big media" or "the Tories" is/are in some way brain washing or coercing us.

Presumably this argument is made because you can't possibly imagine that anyone of sound mind could be uncomfortable with the uncontrolled wave of tens of thousands of economic migrants washing up on our beaches annually.

Perhaps it is your own prejudices which require self-reflection.

 

[QR]

The same as other EU countries then?

Hold on, these Muslim folk are perfect examples of a civilised society aren't they? All full of joy, equality & integration................ oh....maybe not.

You can't equate the views of all individuals in a country with the views/laws of its government. If you could, you'd be a ****.

 

[Whingit]

711 across the channel this morning.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

If you took the time to read threads, you would know me and Mustard disagree on a lot! So your first comment is very strange.

I would be left wing on many issues (drug legalisation, renationalising of trains, cutting tax loopholes) almost too many to name.

Immigration is one topic where I seem to have more of a "right wing" view, because the views of some on the left on it are painfully naive. It wasn't so long ago left and right both strongly believed in the need for international borders.

We should know exactly who is coming here, nobody should slip through without proper checks and endanger the lives of people. One day this ridiculousness in the Channel where people pay criminal gangs will end up killing people. If we did stop any boats from the get go, there would be no incentive to endanger your life to get here, the criminal gangs imply the UK is paved with gold, which I guess compared to the way these people are treated by France it is.

Mass immigration is to the benefit of the wealthy classes, it causes wage suppression which keeps wages low, ideal for rich people. Rich people will also of course live in gated communities and lovely Cotswold villages away from people who live in the milieu of a society which has imported huge amounts of people with different languages and values in a tiny amount of time, leading to little integration and huge societal pressures as well as pressures on local services. And then they will sneer at the people who actually have to live in these places as being "racist."

The situation is wholly ludicrous and our nations policy towards immigration has been little short of insanity for about 40 years.

What you post on other threads is hardly relevant to this one, so the comment is not strange in the least. You both come across as paranoid and scared and make the same points about the nasty men coming across the channel to ruin our lives and our country.

And I do not think you will find ANYONE on this thread (the one about immigration) who would actually disagree with you that we need to control numbers AND know who is coming here AND only accept people who will either contribute (be that through education or directly into work) OR have a genuine case to ask for asylum because they are fleeing danger and oppression.

The difference of opinion on here is largely how you achieve this (with a smattering of xenophobic isolationism, tempered with some bleeding heart liberal snowflake do-gooders).

I would stop short of calling the policy towards immigration insanity over the last 40 years, but I would highlight the fact that this government have systematically defunded and dismantled the very services that were in place to process those wishing to come here. And all this against a background of increased pressure on immigration which has left us ill-equipped to detect and process increasing numbers wishing to come to the UK. THis governments answer has been to consistently push the "hostile environment" narrative against a backdrop of insignificant, performative and eye-wateringly expensive political moves, whilst all the time signalling that it is OK to demonise, criminalise and dehumanise those that are coming here in record numbers as a result of their abject failure to address the underlying problems with any conviction or collaboration.

Lots of finger pointing, very little tangible evidence of any real positive impact.

Which just about sums this government up full stop.