International News Immigration

Eric Blair said:
Boldest claim yet but I reckon all of us can agree on the following points:

  1. There has to be a limit on immigration into the UK (and any country) due to a finite level resources
  2. Legal immigration is hugely desirable as we get economic benefits (taxes and skills), healthcare benefits (NHS staff) and cultural benefits (music, food, new ideas).
  3. At the same time culture is a two way street and the fundamentals of British culture has to be adhered to - individual freedom, secular society (but free to practice your own religion), law and order, equality on gender and sexuality and necking lots of tea.
  4. We need to do our bit to take in refugees from crisis areas. This should be agreed at a supranational level - Europe.
  5. For the whole system to work we need a properly resourced (cash and people) border control. Applicants for asylum should take place in a third country (France) which we did have when we were in the EU but which were under resourced as were border checks. Relations with France aren't great and both countries (UK and France) bear responsibility. It's a failure of leadership.
  6. If the above could work then there is no need for the bat sh*t crazy Rwanda plan which is performative politics at its worse. We all deserve better than a government that engages in this level of sh*thousery.
  7. The country is ground down, tired and in a mess. Nothing works. Whilst Brexit and Covid have a big role here the biggest factor to blame is austerity which gutted public services for years and through quantitive easing which created billions of pounds which were hovered up by Private Equity which then (amongst other things) bought up public services and sold them back to local authorities at extortionate rates. (This also inflated assets which is why houses are so expensive, young people can't buy them and then causes anger when they see "illegals" being put up in hotels). These are same private equity firms that could fall over in 12 moths time unless interest rates come down causing another liquidity problem for banks.
  8. The Tories are screwed this country since 2010. No matter where you political inclination is they need to be kicked out.

I'm confident that all of you (even@Essexyellows) will agree with me. Vote Eric Blair.
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Gonna try this again.

@QR - do you reckon you can live with the points above?
@Essexyellows and @MustardYellow - same question to you?

I'm going to find common ground. I feel a bit like a pound shop Mo Mowlam
 
Eric Blair said:
Boldest claim yet but I reckon all of us can agree on the following points:

  1. There has to be a limit on immigration into the UK (and any country) due to a finite level resources
  2. Legal immigration is hugely desirable as we get economic benefits (taxes and skills), healthcare benefits (NHS staff) and cultural benefits (music, food, new ideas).
  3. At the same time culture is a two way street and the fundamentals of British culture has to be adhered to - individual freedom, secular society (but free to practice your own religion), law and order, equality on gender and sexuality and necking lots of tea.
  4. We need to do our bit to take in refugees from crisis areas. This should be agreed at a supranational level - Europe.
  5. For the whole system to work we need a properly resourced (cash and people) border control. Applicants for asylum should take place in a third country (France) which we did have when we were in the EU but which were under resourced as were border checks. Relations with France aren't great and both countries (UK and France) bear responsibility. It's a failure of leadership.
  6. If the above could work then there is no need for the bat sh*t crazy Rwanda plan which is performative politics at its worse. We all deserve better than a government that engages in this level of sh*thousery.
  7. The country is ground down, tired and in a mess. Nothing works. Whilst Brexit and Covid have a big role here the biggest factor to blame is austerity which gutted public services for years and through quantitive easing which created billions of pounds which were hovered up by Private Equity which then (amongst other things) bought up public services and sold them back to local authorities at extortionate rates. (This also inflated assets which is why houses are so expensive, young people can't buy them and then causes anger when they see "illegals" being put up in hotels). These are same private equity firms that could fall over in 12 moths time unless interest rates come down causing another liquidity problem for banks.
  8. The Tories are screwed this country since 2010. No matter where you political inclination is they need to be kicked out.

I'm confident that all of you (even@Essexyellows) will agree with me. Vote Eric Blair.
Click to expand...
Agreed with a 9th added.

9. Reinstate Gordon Brown as chancellor.
 
Eric Blair said:
Boldest claim yet but I reckon all of us can agree on the following points:

  1. There has to be a limit on immigration into the UK (and any country) due to a finite level resources
  2. Legal immigration is hugely desirable as we get economic benefits (taxes and skills), healthcare benefits (NHS staff) and cultural benefits (music, food, new ideas).
  3. At the same time culture is a two way street and the fundamentals of British culture has to be adhered to - individual freedom, secular society (but free to practice your own religion), law and order, equality on gender and sexuality and necking lots of tea.
  4. We need to do our bit to take in refugees from crisis areas. This should be agreed at a supranational level - Europe.
  5. For the whole system to work we need a properly resourced (cash and people) border control. Applicants for asylum should take place in a third country (France) which we did have when we were in the EU but which were under resourced as were border checks. Relations with France aren't great and both countries (UK and France) bear responsibility. It's a failure of leadership.
  6. If the above could work then there is no need for the bat sh*t crazy Rwanda plan which is performative politics at its worse. We all deserve better than a government that engages in this level of sh*thousery.
  7. The country is ground down, tired and in a mess. Nothing works. Whilst Brexit and Covid have a big role here the biggest factor to blame is austerity which gutted public services for years and through quantitive easing which created billions of pounds which were hovered up by Private Equity which then (amongst other things) bought up public services and sold them back to local authorities at extortionate rates. (This also inflated assets which is why houses are so expensive, young people can't buy them and then causes anger when they see "illegals" being put up in hotels). These are same private equity firms that could fall over in 12 moths time unless interest rates come down causing another liquidity problem for banks.
  8. The Tories are screwed this country since 2010. No matter where you political inclination is they need to be kicked out.

I'm confident that all of you (even@Essexyellows) will agree with me. Vote Eric Blair.
Click to expand...
I agree with most of that.

It's a case of everything in moderation, whilst maintaining safety and fairness for those already here. In these discussions there's always mention of treating those arriving with fairness, but fairness for those already here is often ignored. That's what causes a lot of the frustration for people.
 
MustardYellow said:
I agree with most of that.

It's a case of everything in moderation, whilst maintaining safety and fairness for those already here. In these discussions there's always mention of treating those arriving with fairness, but fairness for those already here is often ignored. That's what causes a lot of the frustration for people.
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Thanks mustard. That's enough for me. My only added point (without opening the can of worms) is I think a lot of the unfairness you rightly identify (and there is so much unfairness) is less to do with immigration and more to do with the lack of investment and austerity politics of the last 15 years. I realise I bang that drum a lot though.
 
Eric Blair said:
Thanks mustard. That's enough for me. My only added point (without opening the can of worms) is I think a lot of the unfairness you rightly identify (and there is so much unfairness) is less to do with immigration and more to do with the lack of investment and austerity politics of the last 15 years. I realise I bang that drum a lot though.
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I think it's a combination of both.

The vast majority in this country are hardworking, tax paying people. Whichever way you look at it and regardless of the economic conditions of the country, it isn't fair that those who work hard and contribute have to trundle along and pay their way while those who rock up by landing boats on our beaches get given it all for free.
 
MustardYellow said:
I think it's a combination of both.

The vast majority in this country are hardworking, tax paying people. Whichever way you look at it and regardless of the economic conditions of the country, it isn't fair that those who work hard and contribute have to trundle along and pay their way while those who rock up by landing boats on our beaches get given it all for free.
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Don't ruin it mustard we're almost there ;).

Yep, I get that but I think a disproportionate amount of time, money and emotional energy is spent trying to solve an issue (illegal immigration on small boats) which doesn't have that much of an economic impact on the country as compared to the scandalous ripping all of us off through QE and the downgrading of public services through austerity. Things like homelessness and drug addiction (which again you have rightly raised as massive issues for the UK) need well funded services to deal with these very complex cases. The government has failed to provide this. To quote John Lydon - ever get the feeling you've been ripped off? We all have.

Anyway, big picture - I'm saying that you, me and @QR basically agree. Just need @Essexyellows now and we are golden.
 
PottersRightBoot said:
most of the country doesn’t think Rwanda is a ‘bat s**t’policy’
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Have there been any opinion polls on this question? The only one I've found is this in The Economist...

1714060421604.png

...which I guess shows nobody has a clue about it. There must be a 'proper' poll out there somewhere, which doesn't use damn emojis...
 
PottersRightBoot said:
Some good points but most of the country doesn’t think Rwanda is a ‘bat s**t’policy’. Might even win the Tories the next election.
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I’ll take “some good points”.

Was interested in your point about “most of the country doesn’t think Rwanda policy is bat s**t crazy”.

To me it is so obviously a waste of money and unsustainable that I assumed everyone would agree. I just took a look at some (admittedly old) polling and it is actually balanced and much more balanced than I thought. I guess the Tories must have some polling saying that it is a popular policy otherwise why would they spend so much time and energy on it.
 

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