General Flares... Again...

Pyrotechnics at football have been legalized in Norway for some time. As long as the fan groups notify in advance with time and quantities etc.

It is seen as such a vital piece of supporter culture that authorities and fan groups worked together to create "cold flares". These look like normal flares but burn cold, with demonstrations showing a person's hand move through slowly through the flame.

Likewise smoke bombs have been enhanced through the years and majority are now non-toxic, so although smelly are actually no more harmful than a fart.

Just some things that are being progressed in Europe to ensure pyro shows can be continued. Without the money and stars of the Premier League, fan culture is one of the main draws for tourism and ticket sales in some leagues.
 
bashamwonderland said:
My belief is that the two criteria you have laid out in your post are simply irreconcilable.

I think the fact that you reference an "American style family event" suggests that deep down, you know the only events which remain non-intimidatory (and respectful to all) are those American style events.

The last young "atmosphere creating" lads are gone. Atmosphere will continue to dwindle as the families take over.

If you go to any European League (outside Spain and England) the crowd remains young male dominated and in my opinion the atmosphere is mind blowing compared to what we have here.
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As said above, surely the answer is to have a dedicated home end without numbered seating and with cheaper admission.

I bet a third tier game in most of Europe would be sleepier than ours, mind.
 
WuTang said:
Pyrotechnics at football have been legalized in Norway for some time. As long as the fan groups notify in advance with time and quantities etc.

It is seen as such a vital piece of supporter culture that authorities and fan groups worked together to create "cold flares". These look like normal flares but burn cold, with demonstrations showing a person's hand move through slowly through the flame.

Likewise smoke bombs have been enhanced through the years and majority are now non-toxic, so although smelly are actually no more harmful than a fart.

Just some things that are being progressed in Europe to ensure pyro shows can be continued. Without the money and stars of the Premier League, fan culture is one of the main draws for tourism and ticket sales in some leagues.
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Dear [Name of Football Club CEO]

I note that you have allowed legal pyrotechnics for use in certain areas of your football stadium, subject to prior permission and restrictions.

I am writing to inform you that my darling little Oscar has mild hayfever which is triggered by smoke and other pollutants. Furthermore, our sweet little girl Henrietta is scared of firework displays and loud noises.

We acknowledge that our season tickets are in the heart of "Hardcore ultra zone 3" but I think it's unfair that we should suffer because of the raucous actions of those around us.

With this in mind we ask that you immediately ban all pyrotechnics and singing within the stadium during match times. We have sent a copy of this letter to our local Lib Dem councillor and will not hesitate to take further action if necessary.

We trust you will do the right thing.

Yours faithfully.

Tilly Hamilton-Churchill-Hawksworth III
 
Perhaps we can have Snowflake flares, that shootout snowflakes. Oooooo! aaaaagh !weeeee!
 
Can I just say, that I'm 66 and I want there to be pyro, flags, chanting, atmosphere and edge at OUFC games, home and away.

Just because someone is what many of you class as old, it doesn't mean that we're miserable. Age is a number, attitude is a way of life.

I would love the young of today to be able to experience the atmospheres that people of my generation experienced at football, when we were young, it's what got most of us hooked.
 
As has been said many times, The Kassam doesn't lend itself to generating an atmosphere at all. Aside from the depressing surroundings, match day experience, acoustics etc, there will be people who have sat in the same spot for years now who will object to flags and smoke bombs appearing near them.

The new stadium is an ideal opportunity to start off on the correct foot and a dedicated space behind the goal for ultras would be perfect. There is an element of 'if we build it, they will come', however, I do feel we also need to see a shift in attitude from the club beforehand. Not only to be receptive to the idea but to encourage more noise, atmosphere and colour at our remaining time at The Kassam so that the transition to any 'ultra zone' is much smoother.
 
Colin B said:
Can I just say, that I'm 66 and I want there to be pyro, flags, chanting, atmosphere and edge at OUFC games, home and away.

Just because someone is what many of you class as old, it doesn't mean that we're miserable. Age is a number, attitude is a way of life.

I would love the young of today to be able to experience the atmospheres that people of my generation experienced at football, when we were young, it's what got most of us hooked.
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Ageism is probably the most common form of discrimination in society today Colin. Grouping all older folk into the same category is most definitely unfair.

Up the Oldtras!
 
Colin B said:
Can I just say, that I'm 66 and I want there to be pyro, flags, chanting, atmosphere and edge at OUFC games, home and away.

Just because someone is what many of you class as old, it doesn't mean that we're miserable. Age is a number, attitude is a way of life.

I would love the young of today to be able to experience the atmospheres that people of my generation experienced at football, when we were young, it's what got most of us hooked.
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👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
 
Colin B said:
Can I just say, that I'm 66 and I want there to be pyro, flags, chanting, atmosphere and edge at OUFC games, home and away.

Just because someone is what many of you class as old, it doesn't mean that we're miserable. Age is a number, attitude is a way of life.

I would love the young of today to be able to experience the atmospheres that people of my generation experienced at football, when we were young, it's what got most of us hooked.
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You’re definitely an old tart when someone says the word drum though 😉
 
What I’ve never understood is when fans complain about what others are doing around them, especially at home.
You know what you are getting when you purchase your ticket in the particular area of the ground.
In the east stand you know there will be flags, people standing up, bad language and singing. If you get a ticket on the half way line in the north stand you know you are going to get some friendly engagement with the away fans.
If you want to sit and watch a game of football and have none of this you go I. The south stand.
They always go on about how football is for everyone so why should this be any different to the way various people want to enjoy a game of football?

Having said all that, I’ll never understand anyone who sits in the SSL as the view is terrible!
 
Steve Gilbert said:
What I’ve never understood is when fans complain about what others are doing around them, especially at home.
You know what you are getting when you purchase your ticket in the particular area of the ground.
In the east stand you know there will be flags, people standing up, bad language and singing. If you get a ticket on the half way line in the north stand you know you are going to get some friendly engagement with the away fans.
If you want to sit and watch a game of football and have none of this you go I. The south stand.
They always go on about how football is for everyone so why should this be any different to the way various people want to enjoy a game of football?

Having said all that, I’ll never understand anyone who sits in the SSL as the view is terrible!
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I love my view from SSL. Back Row, bang level with edge of the box (East Stand end of the pitch).

Different strokes for different folks I guess. 👍🏻
 
Steve Gilbert said:
What I’ve never understood is when fans complain about what others are doing around them, especially at home.
You know what you are getting when you purchase your ticket in the particular area of the ground.
In the east stand you know there will be flags, people standing up, bad language and singing. If you get a ticket on the half way line in the north stand you know you are going to get some friendly engagement with the away fans.
If you want to sit and watch a game of football and have none of this you go I. The south stand.
They always go on about how football is for everyone so why should this be any different to the way various people want to enjoy a game of football?

Having said all that, I’ll never understand anyone who sits in the SSL as the view is terrible!
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Yeah but we’re a family club, every stand, and every part of every stand should be ‘inclusive’.

Every fan has to right to be offended by anyone else who does something that in their eyes is offensive.

Those who are doing the bad offending stuff such as chanting, flag waving, swearing, cursing the officials, booing the goalkeeper etc should be given a warning. We don’t want those rough, working class yobos spoiling it for everyone else.
 
BeechRoadBokelberg said:
I love my view from SSL. Back Row, bang level with edge of the box (East Stand end of the pitch).

Different strokes for different folks I guess. 👍🏻
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Ah we’re neighbours! Best view in the house I reckon, and you can get a look at the bench and the boxes. Beano was in one last week in a nice blue suit. I found SSU too remote and like watching the telly, whereas in lower you can go down and give the lads a clap at the end.
 
Steve Gilbert said:
What I’ve never understood is when fans complain about what others are doing around them, especially at home.
You know what you are getting when you purchase your ticket in the particular area of the ground.
In the east stand you know there will be flags, people standing up, bad language and singing. If you get a ticket on the half way line in the north stand you know you are going to get some friendly engagement with the away fans.
If you want to sit and watch a game of football and have none of this you go I. The south stand.
They always go on about how football is for everyone so why should this be any different to the way various people want to enjoy a game of football?

Having said all that, I’ll never understand anyone who sits in the SSL as the view is terrible!
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Interesting that this thread has developed from being a discussion about flares (and the dangers of) into a more general complaint that 'you can't do anything in the stadium anymore without someone being offended'.

I can accept that fans want to enjoy the game in different ways to myself, with flags, singing, standing etc. - it's why I don't sit in the east stand. But the use of flares is more than just a fan enjoyment thing, it's a safety thing. And even if you do allow flares to be used, then it'll increase the club's cost of stewarding, policing and public liability insurance. Boring I know, but it would have an impact on the club's bottom line which would either lead to higher ticket prices or less money available for transfers.

(Making a more general point that replying to you specifically Steve).
 
I thought it was actually illegal to use pyro at matches. If that is right then no club can 'allow' it especially not by creating an Ultras zone in a new stadium where a blind eye is turned. Surely the focus should be on getting it decriminalised / more accepted - perhaps the new safer versions as described will help. Could a club themselves set up some sort of pyro display? Those flame blower things are used sometimes?
 
You are right it is illegal - a criminal offence which if caught will lead to a criminal record. The EFL, PL and FA are cracking down hard this season and clubs also face fines and penalties. There is no different rule for UEFA matches, just higher risk taking among the European fans bringing the pyro in.
The Football Supporters Association members consistently show a majority against legalising pyro so they do not intend campaigning for law change.
The way forward has to be developing safer alternatives, although if that comes from a club rather than fans it takes away the fan involvement which is a big part of it.
 
According to the FSA: "You don’t have to let off a flare inside a stadium for it to be a criminal offence. Possession of a smoke bomb or flare is itself a crime if you even attempt to enter a stadium – and that can include possession en route to the match. The law doesn’t actually distinguish between smoke bombs, flares or fireworks either."
The term is “pyrotechnic article”. Until laws change there is not much chance of club stance changing.
 
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