Fan's View - Sunderland Away

Victor1986

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Well put Paul regarding SD & CM. I have known Stuart for a long time & I think it is a gamble they could not resist but woe betide when/if things turn bad on the pitch as it will get mighty difficult off the pitch too!
Glad you had a pleasant time up there & I reckon things are turning for us to the good.
 

CheltenhamYellow

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"Just because you can’t get the team you support doesn’t mean you have to go get another one does it?"

Quite. It was an understandable business decision - provided SAFC get promoted, and quickly - but it must feel strange for Messrs Donald and Methven to be wildly celebrating a goal against OUFC. And they apparently were.

Agree with your comments about the overall Sunderland environment. A tough, working class city that has been through rough times and 'feels' like a proper football place. All the Mackems I spoke to were decent.

As the Metro headed west from Stadium of Light station towards Newcastle, I wondered if there would be an obvious dividing line between the catchments of the two clubs. Sure enough, by the time we got to Felling the train had pretty much emptied.
I spoke to CM about celebrating the Sunderland goal briefly in the pub that evening. He said he was pleased they equalised - I got the impression that a draw was the right result for him.
 

Witney Wag

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I spoke to CM about celebrating the Sunderland goal briefly in the pub that evening. He said he was pleased they equalised - I got the impression that a draw was the right result for him.


That’s complete tosh. CM and SD will have been fuming if the result had been what it should have been, an Oxford win. A draw was a 2nd best result for our so called « life long « fans. When you have so much invested in a club with the recent history of Sunderland, there is no way that a draw was the right result, it was better than a loss.
 

MarkG

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Can't say I really care what Mr Methven considered 'the right result.' Fact is, he was delighted they equalised, and no doubt he would have celebrated even more vociferously had they scored a winner. Amazing how a 6% shareholding can change your view of the world.
I'd say Charlie is there doing a job, and that job is to do his best to make Sunderland a success again, ideally back in the Premier League. So of course part of that job entails getting the fans onside with the club, supporting the team, making sure everyone is sending out the right messages. I'm sure it's the same for anyone working in football, you support the club paying your wages at the time, whether it's a football player facing his boyhood team or ex-club, or for instance Sarah Gooding having jobs at Oxford, West Ham, Notts County, or Stewart Donald being owner at Eastleigh or Sunderland.

When Eales took over Oxford, he was fairly careful to never explicitly set out his long term plan for the club - which was presumably get two promotions and sell on for a decent profit. Instead, even though he's naturally a Birmingham City fan, he was able to get a better relationship going with the fans by standing on the terraces at away matches, having a drink in the away pubs, the pre-seasons in Austria etc.

So having watched this approach for four years, I think number one on the list of fan engagements at Sunderland is "don't give out free hot dogs", but instead to tell the fans what they want to hear, sell them a vision of a club on its way back up.
 

MarkG

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Another thought was that our away support seemed quite low for what is arguably the biggest away game of the season. By which I mean I was imagining a Premier League or Championship side selling out that away stand with 3,000 or whatever it holds. So no disrespect to the 1280 who travelled a very long way, but we've got far to go to build up our home and away attendances.
 

Paul B

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Another thought was that our away support seemed quite low for what is arguably the biggest away game of the season. By which I mean I was imagining a Premier League or Championship side selling out that away stand with 3,000 or whatever it holds. So no disrespect to the 1280 who travelled a very long way, but we've got far to go to build up our home and away attendances.

Very true. Although there are other clubs who would envy our away following. Reading?
 
D

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Another thought was that our away support seemed quite low for what is arguably the biggest away game of the season. By which I mean I was imagining a Premier League or Championship side selling out that away stand with 3,000 or whatever it holds. So no disrespect to the 1280 who travelled a very long way, but we've got far to go to build up our home and away attendances.

I tend to agree with regards to how many we took. Considering we took over 3000 to Middlesbrough in a cup game last season I would of thought we would of took at least similar numbers to Sunderland in probably the biggest away game of the season.

Having said that I thought it was low numbers for Pompey away and expected more to travel to Barnsley for the first day of the season.
 

Foley

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I tend to agree with regards to how many we took. Considering we took over 3000 to Middlesbrough in a cup game last season I would of thought we would of took at least similar numbers to Sunderland in probably the biggest away game of the season.

Having said that I thought it was low numbers for Pompey away and expected more to travel to Barnsley for the first day of the season.
Really?
Middlesbrough was the furthest we had got in the Fa cup for decades. It was far more than a League game after 4 defeats and one win.
I thought that our away support at Barnsley and Sunderland was excellent. I agree that I expected more at Pompey.
With regard to away support, Readings in the Championship I believe is very poor. Look at clubs who are now in the Championship and what they brought to Oxford. I think our away support is being underestimated a little.
 
D

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Fully understand the logic of what you're saying Mark, but had I the money / opportunity to become a director of a club such as Sunderland I would find it very hard to enthusiastically applaud a goal by that club against my lifetime team. Engage with the fans by all means, but I suspect many Mackems are fully aware of Charlie's relationship with OUFC, and they too must be puzzled by his reaction to Saturday's goal.

I'd liken it to a player returning to his previous long-term club with his new side, scoring, then celebrating in muted fashion, i.e. showing some class.

The problem is Pete, Charles lacks class. He always has done.
I've been involved in games as a staff member against OUFC before and it is a strange feeling. OUFC in fact lost both times I was involved but not once did I celebrate a goal as I didn't feel it was right to.

If I had millions to waste then I too would fancy buying OUFC like Stewart has wanted to. I however wouldn't want to waste my millions on a football club I had no emotional attachment to hundreds of miles the other end of the country. I guess everyone is different though.
With regards to Charlie being involved I just think he is an excited kid in a sweet shop. Finally able to throw his ego around at a football club. Even if it does upset current long standing staff members Sunderland.
 
D

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Really?
Middlesbrough was the furthest we had got in the Fa cup for decades. It was far more than a League game after 4 defeats and one win.
I thought that our away support at Barnsley and Sunderland was excellent. I agree that I expected more at Pompey.
With regard to away support, Readings in the Championship I believe is very poor. Look at clubs who are now in the Championship and what they brought to Oxford. I think our away support is being underestimated a little.

https://reeshowls.wordpress.com/2017/10/18/football-league-attendances-blog-part-two/

This is an old article from last december but it appears we are around the same average as last season.

Interesting that we had a higher away average than teams like Bolton and Hull. As for QPR I didn't realise they traveled in such low numbers!.

I think Preston is a fair comparison of the size of club we could be. They regularly get between 12-10K home fans a game which I think we would if we were in the championship.
 

christenedinjericho

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Another thought was that our away support seemed quite low for what is arguably the biggest away game of the season. By which I mean I was imagining a Premier League or Championship side selling out that away stand with 3,000 or whatever it holds. So no disrespect to the 1280 who travelled a very long way, but we've got far to go to build up our home and away attendances.

Tbh I don't have the mental strength in my head, hands, and fingers these days to reply to too much on this forum as it is all too easy to Harang and lambast all and sundry but I will rise to the bait of this poster.

Low away following? A reason to be cheerful...On the back of a poor start to still take an average of 1,300 anywhere is still pretty box on in my eyes. Imagine if we had won 2 or 3 of the opening 4 games? Sunderland away whatever is still a bloody long way in anyone's eyes and on the back of a pretty poor start is still a reasonable turnout from any league one club. I'd bet the 1300 take for a southern team in this season's league will only be bettered by a couple of teams. Look at Charlton a southern team with a bigger stadium/bigger crowds/bigger history and with hope and nothing to lose on an opening day didn't have anywhere near OUFC's figure. MarkG where is the logic in this?

We would have easily taken closer to 2000 if the start was better and maybe more as the weather was kind on the day but the fixture list start wasn't kind in a way.

Tbh someone on the forum said that the ticket office had sold 1100 plus tickets at 9.30 on friday morning and if this was true I'll sort of eat my hat twice as the queue for paying between 2.20 and 3.00 was pretty long and annoying as the geezer bless him who was taking the money sales at the turnstile responsible was at least 150 years old and under quite some pressure to get everyone in so perhaps the count wasn't as accurate as it could have been lol. It certainly looked more than Pompey but then again perhaps my eyes need testing so I'm going to cheat tonight and get stopped for speeding so I can have a go at the 20m eye test the Ol' billsworth are bringing in!

As an away supporter of many seasons, I personally have more concerns about getting customers through our own doors....our away support will improve considerably as results improve. I think many teams supporters who are around our stature and size are amazed at our away take year upon year. If you are reading this and you haven't away yet give it a try you'll be hooked.

As another poster said we if we actually got promoted we would easily get 10k at home plus your average 2 to 3k away support guaranteeing 12 to 13k most home weeks subject to our ground having 4 stands and I agree with this. Millwall has an average 12k so do QPR at the moment....what's there not to like....COYY
 

Paul B

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Tbh I don't have the mental strength in my head, hands, and fingers these days to reply to too much on this forum as it is all too easy to Harang and lambast all and sundry but I will rise to the bait of this poster.

Low away following? A reason to be cheerful...On the back of a poor start to still take an average of 1,300 anywhere is still pretty box on in my eyes. Imagine if we had won 2 or 3 of the opening 4 games? Sunderland away whatever is still a bloody long way in anyone's eyes and on the back of a pretty poor start is still a reasonable turnout from any league one club. I'd bet the 1300 take for a southern team in this season's league will only be bettered by a couple of teams. Look at Charlton a southern team with a bigger stadium/bigger crowds/bigger history and with hope and nothing to lose on an opening day didn't have anywhere near OUFC's figure. MarkG where is the logic in this?

We would have easily taken closer to 2000 if the start was better and maybe more as the weather was kind on the day but the fixture list start wasn't kind in a way.

Tbh someone on the forum said that the ticket office had sold 1100 plus tickets at 9.30 on friday morning and if this was true I'll sort of eat my hat twice as the queue for paying between 2.20 and 3.00 was pretty long and annoying as the geezer bless him who was taking the money sales at the turnstile responsible was at least 150 years old and under quite some pressure to get everyone in so perhaps the count wasn't as accurate as it could have been lol. It certainly looked more than Pompey but then again perhaps my eyes need testing so I'm going to cheat tonight and get stopped for speeding so I can have a go at the 20m eye test the Ol' billsworth are bringing in!

As an away supporter of many seasons, I personally have more concerns about getting customers through our own doors....our away support will improve considerably as results improve. I think many teams supporters who are around our stature and size are amazed at our away take year upon year. If you are reading this and you haven't away yet give it a try you'll be hooked.

As another poster said we if we actually got promoted we would easily get 10k at home plus your average 2 to 3k away support guaranteeing 12 to 13k most home weeks subject to our ground having 4 stands and I agree with this. Millwall has an average 12k so do QPR at the moment....what's there not to like....COYY

Good point. I think we still have to take some of the declared away attendances with a pinch of salt.
 

MarkG

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Tbh I don't have the mental strength in my head, hands, and fingers these days to reply to too much on this forum as it is all too easy to Harang and lambast all and sundry but I will rise to the bait of this poster.

Low away following? A reason to be cheerful...On the back of a poor start to still take an average of 1,300 anywhere is still pretty box on in my eyes. Imagine if we had won 2 or 3 of the opening 4 games? Sunderland away whatever is still a bloody long way in anyone's eyes and on the back of a pretty poor start is still a reasonable turnout from any league one club. I'd bet the 1300 take for a southern team in this season's league will only be bettered by a couple of teams. Look at Charlton a southern team with a bigger stadium/bigger crowds/bigger history and with hope and nothing to lose on an opening day didn't have anywhere near OUFC's figure. MarkG where is the logic in this?

We would have easily taken closer to 2000 if the start was better and maybe more as the weather was kind on the day but the fixture list start wasn't kind in a way.

Tbh someone on the forum said that the ticket office had sold 1100 plus tickets at 9.30 on friday morning and if this was true I'll sort of eat my hat twice as the queue for paying between 2.20 and 3.00 was pretty long and annoying as the geezer bless him who was taking the money sales at the turnstile responsible was at least 150 years old and under quite some pressure to get everyone in so perhaps the count wasn't as accurate as it could have been lol. It certainly looked more than Pompey but then again perhaps my eyes need testing so I'm going to cheat tonight and get stopped for speeding so I can have a go at the 20m eye test the Ol' billsworth are bringing in!

As an away supporter of many seasons, I personally have more concerns about getting customers through our own doors....our away support will improve considerably as results improve. I think many teams supporters who are around our stature and size are amazed at our away take year upon year. If you are reading this and you haven't away yet give it a try you'll be hooked.

As another poster said we if we actually got promoted we would easily get 10k at home plus your average 2 to 3k away support guaranteeing 12 to 13k most home weeks subject to our ground having 4 stands and I agree with this. Millwall has an average 12k so do QPR at the moment....what's there not to like....COYY

All i am trying to say is that we’ve been a big fish in a small pond in the conference, most of L2 too. L1 we’re doing well for away attendances with rivals like Pompey and Luton. But then we play Sunderland and i realise that we are a long way from mid table championship. So like playing Blackburn last season.
 
D

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Miscounting of away fans is always a topic that interests me. You'd think with electronic entry points at most modern stadia accuracy would be guaranteed, but 1,280 at Sunderland did seem very low and our tame Mackem Sinner estimated at least 2,000 from his vantage point amongst the home fans.

Certainly in our Conference days our credited numbers often looked dodgy, and even back in the league I remember being at Rochdale (or was it Bury?) on a Tuesday night and physically counting over 250 of our fans, yet the official figure was 180.
Interestingly he, like a number of posters on their forum estimated it to look around 2000.
 

Paul B

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The problem is Pete, Charles lacks class. He always has done.
I've been involved in games as a staff member against OUFC before and it is a strange feeling. OUFC in fact lost both times I was involved but not once did I celebrate a goal as I didn't feel it was right to.

If I had millions to waste then I too would fancy buying OUFC like Stewart has wanted to. I however wouldn't want to waste my millions on a football club I had no emotional attachment to hundreds of miles the other end of the country. I guess everyone is different though.
With regards to Charlie being involved I just think he is an excited kid in a sweet shop. Finally able to throw his ego around at a football club. Even if it does upset current long standing staff members Sunderland.

A Sunderland fan has along with wishing us good luck for the rest of the season commented,"Just a small note of reference, the parachute payments Sunderland are due will go directly to Ellis Short the former owner to cover payment for the club. The team won’t benefit in the slightest because of these payments."

I perhaps should have spent a bit of time on the terms of the takeover because they've not actually spent millions. They're obviously a bit biased but this makes interesting reading.
https://www.themag.co.uk/2018/05/re...0m-asking-price-instalments-newcastle-united/

Here's a direct lift from it.

As for paying for the deal, this is going to be painful for Sunderland fans.
As Stewart Donald and minority shareholder Charlie Methven have revealed that they couldn’t afford to pay the £40m up front for Sunderland.
Instead they have been given two years to pay the money.
On top of that, the new owners were forced to admit that the £40m takeover on credit isn’t secured against any of their own assets, instead it has been secured against the club’s parachute payments over the course of the next two years.

After receiving £41m this past (2017/18) season, Sunderland (Stewart Donald and his co-shareholders) will receive in excess of £40m in Premier League parachute payments over the course of the next two years.
The vision Sunderland fans had of mega-rich new owners taking over, is quickly falling apart.
If they continued to struggle, you would have to question the ability of the new owners to be able to fund Sunderland.
 
D

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Basically they had to off load players to fund this season. If they don’t go straight up then they are in the brown stuff.
 

MarkG

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I'm confused. So will Stewart and co. get £40 million in parachute payments or will they go directly to Ellis? And if Stewart and Charlie don't get the funds, will that mean their plans for SAFC will come tumbling down as the money spent on buying SAFC is on unsecured credit?
They've agreed to pay £40M to Short. Where they get the money from is their concern: perhaps they are selling other assets; borrowing; have other investors; or are hoping to cut costs and increase revenues enough that they can use the parachute payments instead. Short is just making sure he gets it by ringfencing the parachute payments.

It's not that different to what Eales has done with the transfer fees for players sold or on the books when he sold to Tiger.

Except conceptually, I think parachute payments are to give an income for future seasons after relegation from EPL where clubs naturally have a higher player wage bill and other costs that don't go down immediately, whereas tv money will go down and attendances too in general.

Whereas transfer fees due are simply a delayed payment for a past transaction.
 

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