Manager/Coach Des Buckingham

unification said:
Yep. I feel that whilst DB will be judged on results, there will be some semblance of performance measurement too. Essentially ‘no more Bolton’ catastrophes until the end of the season and certainly no double or triple defeats in a row. It is very much knife-edge stuff.

Still, we’re in the mix and have to match or better Lincoln, Stevenage, Blackpool and perhaps Leyton Orient’s results to stay where we are. I can’t see us finishing higher than where we are barring an incredible run of wins with a series of dropped points from one of the three ‘catchable’ teams above us.

Even if we make the playoffs, can anyone see us winning them though? Bolton, Peterborough and Barnsley will likely fill spots 3rd to 5th and all of those sides are better than us.
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Barnsley have been terrible lately. Will they rediscover their form in time for the playoffs?

Bolton - will they "gel" like that again if we played them in the playoffs....and would we capitulate so easily?

Peterborough - we'll find out how good they are in a few weeks time when they come to us. Absolutely gubbed us back in December.

It's certainly in our hands and even if Stevenage win their game in hand, we will need to beat them to go ahead of them. Beat them 3-1 at theirs with 2 goals from Leigh and 1 from Moore after going 1-0 down. We also played Billy Bodin as a striker that day as Harris was suspended following his straight red in our defeat to Port Vale.
 
Sheik djibouti said:
Barnsley have been terrible lately. Will they rediscover their form in time for the playoffs?

Bolton - will they "gel" like that again if we played them in the playoffs....and would we capitulate so easily?

Peterborough - we'll find out how good they are in a few weeks time when they come to us. Absolutely gubbed us back in December.

It's certainly in our hands and even if Stevenage win their game in hand, we will need to beat them to go ahead of them. Beat them 3-1 at theirs with 2 goals from Leigh and 1 from Moore after going 1-0 down. We also played Billy Bodin as a striker that day as Harris was suspended following his straight red in our defeat to Port Vale.
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Hope so, fancy playing them again at Wembley. Cracking bunch of supporters.
 
SirAndyOfCrosby said:
They've lost once in the last 10.

And twice since mid-November.

Sign me up for some of that terrible form!
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Yep, I retract that. Fair point. They did get stuffed by Lincoln at home and then drew with Cheltenham at home. Managed a 3-2 win at Carlisle in between those (practically everyone beats them, even we managed a 3-1 at theirs in January). Guess we'll see on Good Friday if they've got anything to worry about at home to Cambridge and away at Burton on Easter Monday...both teams they should comfortably beat.
 
Gregortheox said:
I’m bored of listening to so and so has potential, he could be a good player etc.
The time is now and Buckingham needs to make sure that everyone is available and ready and good enough to make an impression week in week out
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Yeah let's just release the entire youth team and take this approach.

/not serious, but you get the point.
 
tonyw said:
One thing that Des has been very good at since he arrived is getting results against the dross.
Against sides in the bottom third of League One on merit and below (so not including Reading - because they wouldn't be without the points deduction - and ignoring the Tinpot Trophy because it's irrelevant), he's played 8, won 7 and only lost his first game against Cheltenham.

Against every side in the top two thirds of the league and above (again ignoring the Tinpot) it's played 17, won 1, drawn 7, lost 9.

Hopefully that keeps up through the next three games, and then he works out how to beat competent sides!
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All that tells me, is that Des ain’t gonna be the man to take us forward to the next level
 
Sheik djibouti said:
Agreed, that midfield won't work as well against a better quality of opposition...it could even go as wrong as it did against Bolton. So how do we solve that problem? Really not sure, but maybe Leigh at Left mid to give a bit more robustness in front of Bennett with Long/Stevens and Dale on the other. The middle though as you say is the real problem. McEachran was part of the team that was successful at the start of the season ....domyou think he can rediscover that? Not sure as I think any team that employs a press will.overrun him as whilst he's a quality passer, he's just too ponderous for me. Matete ought to be the answer, but we've seen nothing from him to suggest that's the case so far. That was a pretty serious injury he got and he now seems to be in that place where he's picking up knocks and niggles with alarming regularity.
So if not this two as the anchor, is Cambran the only realistic alternative....but then who further forward...Bodin? Goodrham?, Henry?...what about Murphy more centrally in the RR role?
No easy answer I can see at present, more hope than anything!
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Exactly this up to now but hopefully solvable.. This has been Des's dilemma from day one. At the start it was all about continuity of Manning's quite narrow, high pressing 4231 but with tons of injuries. It never clicked. So he waited for his wide players to get fit, tinkered with a futile back three experiment before trying a version of his preferred 433 with proper wingers. The players let him down, especially the midfielders and he flapped and compromised.

We ended up with a weird hybrid with two deep midfielders, no shape or control in the middle, no progressive outball options and some pretty good pacy wingers relying on Brannagan 60 yard diagonals or hanging around while we knocked it safely around the back. Or lumped it forward to a hard working, speedy #9 whose entire game relies on through balls down the middle. A mess. Made worse by some players inexcusably dialling it in (McGuane & Rodriguez) and others overcompensating by trying to play everywhere at once (Cam, Leigh).

The Bolton game was hopefully the nail in the coffin on these kind of compromises and tolerance for egos and laziness. For me Vale was the first time we set up with conviction as a Des Buckingham team and I hope we stick with it. It might not be enough but the alternative is worse. A lot now rests on the players.

Specifically:

Cam as CDM but reigning things in and putting team before self. Keep it simple more often, resist temptation to stray, watch the body language, be the pivot even if you know you have more in the locker than that. Drive forward when the chance arises (none of our defenders can) and trust teammates to cover (even if they've let you down before). McEachran/Matete as back up depending on the opposition if we need to push cam higher.

Midfield. Bodin/Henry/Goodrham/Matete: Work harder, get a foot in, challenge for every high ball even if you're unlikely to win it, make life difficult. Our midfield is skillful but lightweight and aging. No excuse not to have some bite and visible effort. Focus on ball retention in and around the centre circle but take risks further forward - we're now set up for both wingers and our striker to be creative options. Above all work harder.

Wing. Murphy/Dale/Leigh/Browne/Goodrham - it's 433 now, you're going to be hitting big numbers on the GPS. Stay high in possession, run run run, know that if your full back is in the attacking half you need to already be on your way back to cover. Enjoy taking people on and keeping the oppo guessing but do increase the number of first or second touch balls into the danger area. We don't half faff sometimes.

Fullbacks: Be lower league 433 fullbacks and be proud of it. Mainly about keeping position and defending, minimise number of tackles needed, go forward when opportunity presents itself and trust your winger to cover. I prefer Long and Bennett fwiw.

Central Defence: if we can get the gist of the above working then the percentages change dramatically and our CBs can focus on the basics. Both are great in the air and solid in the tackle but see far far too much of the ball in recent months and are often exposed simply because of the numbers game - too many last gasp interventions needed.

A quick word on Rodrigues. He's a brilliant and visionary passer in the final third. The best we have by miles. He's also 27 and was playing national league not long ago and has struggled to be dependable at L1 even against weak opposition. A player with his raw creative talent and attributes should have progressed by now. I worry that the reason he hasn't is nothing to do with form and everything to do with an underlying weakness in his game and mentality. Hope I'm wrong. In the next couple of games he has a chance to shine. Ruben: stop making ridiculous decisions in high risk areas, play the possession ball more than once a game and please, please please remember that in league 1 football there is usually a man on you within 2 seconds not 10. Fingers crossed

Let's do this. We have a gentle run in and a few games now to establish a consistent level of performance and discipline before things get tougher.

It may be too late. The players may continue to let the side down. There may be things behind the scenes that aren't ideal. All true but the least we can do as fans now is stay positive but also intolerant of any player not giving 100%
 
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ThatSlopesATwelfthMan said:
Exactly this up to now but hopefully solvable.. This has been Des's dilemma from day one. At the start it was all about continuity of Manning's quite narrow, high pressing 4231 but with tons of injuries. It never clicked. So he waited for his wide players to get fit, tinkered with a futile back three experiment before trying a version of his preferred 433 with proper wingers. The players let him down, especially the midfielders and he flapped and compromised.

We ended up with a weird hybrid with two deep midfielders, no shape or control in the middle, no progressive outball options and some pretty good pacy wingers relying on Brannagan 60 yard diagonals or hanging around while we knocked it safely around the back. Or lumped it forward to a hard working, speedy #9 whose entire game relies on through balls down the middle. A mess. Made worse by some players inexcusably dialling it in (McGuane & Rodriguez) and others overcompensating by trying to play everywhere at once (Cam, Leigh).

The Bolton game was hopefully the nail in the coffin on these kind of compromises and tolerance for egos and laziness. For me Vale was the first time we set up with conviction as a Des Buckingham team and I hope we stick with it. It might not be enough but the alternative is worse. A lot now rests on the players.

Specifically:

Cam as CDM but reigning things in and putting team before self. Keep it simple more often, resist temptation to stray, watch the body language, be the pivot even if you know you have more in the locker than that. Drive forward when the chance arises (none of our defenders can) and trust teammates to cover (even if they've let you down before). McEachran/Matete as back up depending on the opposition if we need to push cam higher.

Midfield. Bodin/Henry/Goodrham/Matete: Work harder, get a foot in, challenge for every high ball even if you're unlikely to win it, make life difficult. Our midfield is skillful but lightweight and aging. No excuse not to have some bite and visible effort. Focus on ball retention in and around the centre circle but take risks further forward - we're now set up for both wingers and our striker to be creative options. Above all work harder.

Wing. Murphy/Dale/Leigh/Browne/Goodrham - it's 433 now, you're going to be hitting big numbers on the GPS. Stay high in possession, run run run, know that if your full back is in the attacking half you need to already be on your way back to cover. Enjoy taking people on and keeping the oppo guessing but do increase the number of first or second touch balls into the danger area. We don't half faff sometimes.

Fullbacks: Be lower league 433 fullbacks and be proud of it. Mainly about keeping position and defending, minimise number of tackles needed, go forward when opportunity presents itself and trust your winger to cover. I prefer Long and Bennett fwiw.

Central Defence: if we can get the gist of the above working then the percentages change dramatically and our CBs can focus on the basics. Both are great in the air and solid in the tackle but see far far too much of the ball in recent months and are often exposed simply because of the numbers game - too many last gasp interventions needed.

A quick word on Rodrigues. He's a brilliant and visionary passer in the final third. The best we have by miles. He's also 27 and was playing national league not long ago and has struggled to be dependable at L1 even against weak opposition. A player with his raw creative talent and attributes should have progressed by now. I worry that the reason he hasn't is nothing to do with form and everything to do with an underlying weakness in his game and mentality. Hope I'm wrong. In the next couple of games he has a chance to shine. Ruben: stop making ridiculous decisions in high risk areas, play the possession ball more than once a game and please, please please remember that in league 1 football there is usually a man on you within 2 seconds not 10. Fingers crossed

Let's do this. We have a gentle run in and a few games now to establish a consistent level of performance and discipline before things get tougher.

It may be too late. The players may continue to let the side down. There may be things behind the scenes that aren't ideal. All true but the least we can do as fans now is stay positive but also intolerant of any player not giving 100%
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Great analysis- thank you.

Completely agree with Cam as CDM having to be more disciplined and not trying to be everywhere at once and constant worldy passes. If you play him further forward (especially as a No. 10) he gets less of the ball and less influence.

Agree re RR - he needs to play simpler possession passes when in our half and save the extravagant flicks and turns for when he's in the attacking half. But, yes he can see and thread a great through ball!
 
tonyw said:
One thing that Des has been very good at since he arrived is getting results against the dross.
Against sides in the bottom third of League One on merit and below (so not including Reading - because they wouldn't be without the points deduction - and ignoring the Tinpot Trophy because it's irrelevant), he's played 8, won 7 and only lost his first game against Cheltenham.

Against every side in the top two thirds of the league and above (again ignoring the Tinpot) it's played 17, won 1, drawn 7, lost 9.

Hopefully that keeps up through the next three games, and then he works out how to beat competent sides!
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The league isn't just consisting of 'dross' and 'competent' sides though. Yes, we do OK against those teams around the bottom but what about those clubs that fall between dross and competent - Northampton twice, Orient, Wigan, Reading twice, Bristol Rovers, Wycombe, Blackpool etc. It's in a lot of these that we will look back on with regret, we were in some great positions to take the points but just needed more conviction.
 
unification said:
Yep. I feel that whilst DB will be judged on results, there will be some semblance of performance measurement too. Disappointing draws after leading for example may yield a point, but they're the kind of result that have seen us slip down the table. For all the horrors from last Tuesday, two wins and a defeat is better than a win and two draws. Essentially he needs ‘no more Bolton-style’ catastrophes until the end of the season and certainly no double or triple defeats in a row. It is very much knife-edge stuff.

Still, we’re in the mix and have to match or better Lincoln, Stevenage, Blackpool and perhaps Leyton Orient’s results to stay where we are. I can’t see us finishing higher than where we are barring an incredible run of wins with a series of dropped points from one of the three ‘catchable’ teams above us.

Even if we make the playoffs, can anyone see us winning them though? Bolton, Peterborough and Barnsley will likely fill spots 3rd to 5th and all of those sides are better than us.
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In football anything is possible

My favourite Sven Goran Erikksen quote. Equal parts optimistic and equal parts banal.
 
dickwalton1964 said:
The league isn't just consisting of 'dross' and 'competent' sides though. Yes, we do OK against those teams around the bottom but what about those clubs that fall between dross and competent - Northampton twice, Orient, Wigan, Reading twice, Bristol Rovers, Wycombe, Blackpool etc. It's in a lot of these that we will look back on with regret, we were in some great positions to take the points but just needed more conviction.
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Des aside, I think you could take these comments and apply them to many of our seasons where we have dropped points against average teams.

I think it tells us that to all intents and purposes, we are also an average league 1 club.
 
Northernyellow said:
I don't think there's any great mystery about MM. He's just not that good. Great technique and balance, but he's a very cautious player, who often plays the wrong pass. He doesn't influence games. Dale has done more for us in six appearances than MM has done in 100+ imo. MM is not a dynamic player. You can see why he was so highly rated as a teenager. But you can also see why he's failed. I'd be quite happy to see him go. He might get a low level Championship club, but he won't make any impact at that level.
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Absolutely time to let go ,our record against the top teams is so poor and generally its down to the midfield, it's such a shame we can't get Matete firing and see if we can get Bran slightly further forwards. This break might work out great getting him fit but we do need to improve that area in the summer
 
dickwalton1964 said:
The league isn't just consisting of 'dross' and 'competent' sides though. Yes, we do OK against those teams around the bottom but what about those clubs that fall between dross and competent - Northampton twice, Orient, Wigan, Reading twice, Bristol Rovers, Wycombe, Blackpool etc. It's in a lot of these that we will look back on with regret, we were in some great positions to take the points but just needed more conviction.
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I'm not sure we're really arguing about anything substantive here - although in my head, there's sort of three tiers in the league this season. The dross (which Des is very good at beating), the competent teams (most of which you've listed there) and the good teams (basically the top five, plus Lincoln in the past month!). To state the bleeding obvious, Des has not been good at beating these last two tiers at all.

Course the weird way this season is playing out.....if we only keep up that record over the final seven games, we'll be very close. Beat the four bad teams we play, scrape a point or two in the home games and it'll be touch and go. We'll get demolished in the playoffs though unless we up our game against the non-dross sides.

(also, if your point is to empasize how terrible Des is, you might want to remove Wigan from your list. That was the only competent team that Des has managed to beat, and simultaneously the worst result and performance under Manning.......)
 
I was reading an article about Ian Evatt today, and his underwhelming start at Bolton. I checked the stats, and he had 6 wins and 7 draws (25 points) in his first 24 matches at the club. This run included a 4-0 thrashing at Orient, and 3 goal defeats at home to Tranmere and Port Vale. They then went on an incredible run to finish 3rd in league two and get promoted. And look where they are now. Does show that a manager can take time to gel with a team, and being patient can yield rewards.
 
Guest here, but I find the forum a very interesting read, especially juxtaposing the sentiment in Manning leaving ("no loyalty in football any more") with the desire to get Des out the door before his feet are under the table. I agree about lack of loyalty, but I think it is generally from both sides, with football being such a results business. Managers knows their head will be called for as soon as results are bad, so they don't waste any time bolting when an opportunity arises, if they are on a good run that creates job prospects higher up.

From the outside, the problem with Des is that he was unproven in England to begin with, so it is a bit harder to fall back on "he has already shown he is a good manager if given time" like Stoke could do with Schumacher, for example.

There is just so much constant pressure on owners, managers and fans for results to be good - especially in our division with four relegation spots - that it is very unusual to feel the desire to persist with someone if they don't hit the ground running, I suppose.
 
Shev said:
Guest here, but I find the forum a very interesting read, especially juxtaposing the sentiment in Manning leaving ("no loyalty in football any more") with the desire to get Des out the door before his feet are under the table. I agree about lack of loyalty, but I think it is generally from both sides, with football being such a results business. Managers knows their head will be called for as soon as results are bad, so they don't waste any time bolting when an opportunity arises, if they are on a good run that creates job prospects higher up.

From the outside, the problem with Des is that he was unproven in England to begin with, so it is a bit harder to fall back on "he has already shown he is a good manager if given time" like Stoke could do with Schumacher, for example.

There is just so much constant pressure on owners, managers and fans for results to be good - especially in our division with four relegation spots - that it is very unusual to feel the desire to persist with someone if they don't hit the ground running, I suppose.
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How dare you come on here spouting thoughtful, dispassionate, logical comments? :)
 
The poll has certainly reversed a bit from 80/20 to 70/30. Maybe we aren't QUITE so 😡 but certainly worth registering those feelings.
 
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