National News Cost of Living Crisis

[RgYellows]

Public servants have far worse pay than those in comparable positions in the private sector, and the pensions really are nothing special. These are facts, not opinions.

Please can you expand on the pension point?

 

[Essexyellows]

Please can you expand on the pension point?

It is very variable - if you got into a final salary scheme and declined to be forced into newer schemes it can be nice to look forward too.

Not everyone will have been that fortunate or resilient to pressure.

 

[m]

Please can you expand on the pension point?

I've not heard of anyone being given a final salary pension in the last 15 years - I suppose they might still exist but I've not seen it.

My pension is utterly bog-standard. I've had worse in industry, and I've had much better.

 

[Essexyellows]

For anyone interested with regard to NHS Pensions and the changes therein in 2008/2015.
Of course every person will be in a different situation relative to birth date, commencement of employment and which scheme they joined and if they chose to remain in it !

https://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/sites/default/files/2018-07/Final%20salary%20linking%20guide-20180629-%28V1%29.pdf

 

[RgYellows]

I've not heard of anyone being given a final salary pension in the last 15 years - I suppose they might still exist but I've not seen it.

I don’t think anecdotal evidence should be presented as fact, and I don’t think the lack of final salary makes defined benefit equal or inferior to defined contribution.

Most people would recognise public sector pensions as superior (https://www.which.co.uk/money/pensi...service-pension-scheme-explained-a2xZV8g94vVR describes the civil service pension as “one of the most generous of its kind”) and that’s certainly been my anecdotal experience with a partner who has started work in multiple Public Sector organisations in the past 15 years.

 

[m]

I don’t think anecdotal evidence should be presented as fact, and I don’t think the lack of final salary makes defined benefit equal or inferior to defined contribution.

Most people would recognise public sector pensions as superior (https://www.which.co.uk/money/pensi...service-pension-scheme-explained-a2xZV8g94vVR describes the civil service pension as “one of the most generous of its kind”) and that’s certainly been my anecdotal experience with a partner who has started work in multiple Public Sector organisations in the past 15 years.

It's wrong to assume the example scheme you've given is available to most public servants. It's not.

It's not anecdotal evidence on my part, it's personal experience.

 

[Coffin dodger]

To be fair I think this place could probably do a better job of running the country than any politically constrained government.

We all, more or less, agree on the basics.

Nationalised infra for the people it serves and proper PR.

As long as you're not involved it probably would.

 

[RgYellows]

It's wrong to assume the example scheme you've given is available to most public servants. It's not.

It's not anecdotal evidence on my part, it's personal experience.

Per Wikipedia, anecdotal evidence is evidence based only on personal observation, collected in a casual or non-systematic manner. Personal experience is anecdotal evidence.

As a genuine question, what is wrong with the following statement:

The relative generosity of employer pension contributions in the public sector has been growing over time. The average employer contribution rate in the public sector grew by around 5 percentage points between 2012 and 2021, rising to 18% of pay in 2021. The average employer contribution rate in the private sector is considerably lower and has been growing more slowly: the average across all private sector employees (including those who do not participate in a pension scheme) rose by around 2 percentage points over the same period, reaching almost 6% of pay in 2021.

Public spending, pay and pensions | Institute for Fiscal Studies

The public sector pay settlements announced this July will pose severe budgetary challenges for many areas of government.

ifs.org.uk

 

[Malc]

Well I'm on a final salary pension. But then I worked in the Netherlands for 35 years.

 

[m]

Per Wikipedia, anecdotal evidence is evidence based only on personal observation, collected in a casual or non-systematic manner. Personal experience is anecdotal evidence.

Fair enough; I'd argue the point that within the institution I work, I know that the only pension options are to enrol within the standard pension plan, or to opt out of it, and that this is not a casual observation.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

Well I'm on a final salary pension. But then I worked in the Netherlands for 35 years.

Lucky thing!

On a serious note, what was your employer contribution?

 

[sideshowrob]

I went on strike to protect the conditions of my final sallery Oxfordshire Local Government Pension that the Cameron Tory Govenment were planning rob me of. We won a much better deal than the government were offering. That was the best day's work I never did! I can afford to retire early now and give a younger person an opportunity a bit sooner.

 

[Malc]

Lucky thing!

On a serious note, what was your employer contribution?

Ha, good question..
My employer was/is the second largest pension company in the Netherlands.
Lucky me.

 

[MC Yellow]

Why is it arrogant to suggest people don't think through the full consequences of actions?

That depends on which side of the consequence your are.

For example, I don’t have the benefit of an attractive employer contributory pension scheme and so have to make my own way using investments methods that may/will seem offensive to you.

No one else is going to fund my retirement.

 

[QR]

That depends on which side of the consequence your are.

For example, I don’t have the benefit of an attractive employer contributory pension scheme and so have to make my own way using investments methods that may/will seem offensive to you.

No one else is going to fund my retirement.

Come again? How does this link to my point?

If you are saying 'don't privatise, think of people without pensions' then absolutely no investment portfolio in lieu of a pension should have more than 0.5% invested in a single company. I'd go further and say no more than 2% in a particular service category (eg water companies). Yes invest, but any portfolio has to be able take the crunchy with the smooth. Spreading risk is the name of the game. Isn't it?

 

[MC Yellow]

Come again? How does this link to my point?

If you are saying 'don't privatise, think of people without pensions' then absolutely no investment portfolio in lieu of a pension should have more than 0.5% invested in a single company. I'd go further and say no more than 2% in a particular service category (eg water companies). Yes invest, but any portfolio has to be able take the crunchy with the smooth. Spreading risk is the name of the game. Isn't it?

I guess I was referring to your comment about your colleagues. Naked Greed, I think you called it.

Maybe I misunderstood you.

I am simply saying that we are all caught up in this web of trying to make money to support our futures. That involves investing in companies that make profits and pay dividends or property portfolios that charge rent, all of which you seem to find abhorrent, if I am to understand you correctly.

 

[Sharp Edges]

I guess I was referring to your comment about your colleagues. Naked Greed, I think you called it.

Maybe I misunderstood you.

I am simply saying that we are all caught up in this web of trying to make money to support our futures. That involves investing in companies that make profits and pay dividends or property portfolios that charge rent, all of which you seem to find abhorrent, if I am to understand you correctly.

My dad is a far left union bully, he used to love it when the stock market went down "all the rich bastards lose their money".

Then his dad left him some shares in BT (i think) and now he claims he should have been a financial advisor.

I think his bitterness blinded him from realising the stock market effected his pension.

 

[QR]

I guess I was referring to your comment about your colleagues. Naked Greed, I think you called it.

Maybe I misunderstood you.

I am simply saying that we are all caught up in this web of trying to make money to support our futures. That involves investing in companies that make profits and pay dividends or property portfolios that charge rent, all of which you seem to find abhorrent, if I am to understand you correctly.

You've totally misunderstood me. I have a couple of stocks and shares ISAS so have skin in the game. I just appreciate it's not all sunshine and roses and I try my best to avoid sectors that simply exploit. It's not an exact science but I did my homework before I invested.

 

[MC Yellow]

Bearing in mind that no one thought our attack was good enough last year, and that we likely will have Browne, Murphy, Wildschut, Bodin, Henry and Baldock all on the books this year, I have no idea why people want Joseph back.

It is indeed a cost of living crisis .

 

[RgYellows]

It is indeed a cost of living crisis .

No idea what happened here!!