National News Cost of Living Crisis

[m]

Don’t know why people still trot out the stuff about the public sector being a gravy train, cushy, inefficient, etc compared to the private. My sister in the NHS has far worse t and cs than I do in the private sector and is much more tightly controlled in her working life. You need to let the 70s recede into the past.

You misunderstand my position slightly; and I speak as a leftie with over a decade of experience in public service!

The cushy/gravy train/pension thing is utter horseshit now, and has mostly always been. Public servants have far worse pay than those in comparable positions in the private sector, and the pensions really are nothing special. These are facts, not opinions.

My point was that the public sector is often bloated and very inefficient, while simultaneously being underfunded. I don't know what the solution to this is. Obviously punitive measures can't be the answer. (Not that I'd put it past the current lot to try them)

 

[Marked Ox]

I do like the idea of the mutualisation for the water companies as suggested by Labour. But the details would have to be hammered down and controls/clear lines of accountability put in place.

 

[Oxford57]

What I find a bit strange is the constant reference to victorian sewerage systems which need replacing, does this mean that no water company in the country replaced anything in the last 150 years, it’s more of a case that the systems put in to place since are not as good as the original pipe work,

Rather than fining the water companies for poor performance,the government should be fining them for not improving the network, forcing them to do what’s needed to meet statuary targets which are set by a indipendant body

My only contact with Thames water in the last number of years was a request to fit a water meter which they couldn’t do as they could not find the external stopcock , then put on a lower tariff due to that

 

[chuckbert]

Unpopular opinion: the problem with privatised or nationalised utilities is not due to either ideology, but due to the motivations of all the people involved in running and operating them. Too many people want something for nothing and aren’t conditioned to taking pride in their work and their service to society. I’m talking about all strata of British society.
If you want a system that works it doesn’t matter too much which structure you use, you’ve got to get the culture right.

 

[Carpy]

To be fair I think this place could probably do a better job of running the country than any politically constrained government.

We all, more or less, agree on the basics.

Nationalised infra for the people it serves and proper PR.

What we thinking, I'll get us started

@Scotchegg Secretary of State for Justice
@OxShireWest Secretary of State for Transport?

 

[holdsteady]

What I find a bit strange is the constant reference to victorian sewerage systems which need replacing, does this mean that no water company in the country replaced anything in the last 150 years, it’s more of a case that the systems put in to place since are not as good as the original pipe work,

Rather than fining the water companies for poor performance,the government should be fining them for not improving the network, forcing them to do what’s needed to meet statuary targets which are set by a indipendant body

My only contact with Thames water in the last number of years was a request to fit a water meter which they couldn’t do as they could not find the external stopcock , then put on a lower tariff due to that

When our sewage systems were designed all those years ago what was the population of this country? What is it now?

When Londons sewers were first designed they actually did a survey of people to work out how much they shat so they could work out what was needed, we have basically been patching on to it since.

We are blasé and think ourselves above the subject because poo stinks, but it’s improved/saved more lives than any other human advancement, if we went back to throwing our s**t in the street people would soon look back on the time we had flush toilets as a golden age.

 

[QR]

Unpopular opinion: the problem with privatised or nationalised utilities is not due to either ideology, but due to the motivations of all the people involved in running and operating them. Too many people want something for nothing and aren’t conditioned to taking pride in their work and their service to society. I’m talking about all strata of British society.
If you want a system that works it doesn’t matter too much which structure you use, you’ve got to get the culture right.

I almost agree with you.

Where I disagree is when it comes to the large companies. They have no humanity or culture other than what's good for the profit and loss account. They will act 'woke' if it helps the bottom line just as easy as they would take on a contract to say send refugees to Russia if it paid. They act like robots in pursuit of their goal of profit.

That said I've had a number of brilliant interaction with small local businesses recently. Great service, gone the extra mile, couldn't do enough for you.

 

[QR]

What I wanted was proper accountability. I didn't want Britains laws passed by the EU.
Cheaper food would’ve been nice but a lot of factors have prevented that, covid for one, and the lack of a decent negotiated deal.
There will always be red tape. Depends on what you want and how it is defined.
For what it’s worth I agree the trade deal with USA hasn’t come. The sticking point is probably in no small part due to the Northern Ireland situation, which is again something that should have been resolved by now.
The immigration issue hasn’t been resolved at all, and probably wouldn’t have been whether we were out or in. Our obligations to HK, Afghanistan, Syria, amongst others will always been that we have effectively open borders creating havoc in the supply of housing and the infrastructure needed.
I also think the farming situation needs addressing. I for on am appalled that we seem dependent on the import of second rate fruit and veg whilst we are destroying our own crops. I think the farming industry should be Subsidised in an effort to make them more self sufficient.
As a result of the EU our fishing industry has been allowed to be decimated.
I believe in the socialist principle of nationalising the water industry and preventing the pollution of our rivers to the detriment long term of our country.

So in reply to my challenge to you to describe the Brexit you voted for, other than agreeing with me re the lack of delivery on promises made, you have said...

'What I wanted was proper accountability. I didn't want Britains laws passed by the EU.'

So now I'm obliged to ask you to list the top three laws that you felt we so debilitating for the UK than it was worth leaving the biggest trading bloc in the world for.

 

[Mojofilter]

I don't understand anyone who ever thought it was a good idea.

Bit like Brexit really. One dimensional thinkers.

I think we agree on a lot of political issues, I am anti privatisation and thought brexit was a dreadful idea...

...but there's no need for this arrogance surely? This is exactly what people mean about the sneering left. It isn't "they view things in a different way to me" it's "they're thick"

 

[QR]

I think we agree on a lot of political issues, I am anti privatisation and thought brexit was a dreadful idea...

...but there's no need for this arrogance surely? This is exactly what people mean about the sneering left. It isn't "they view things in a different way to me" it's "they're thick"

Why is it arrogant to suggest people don't think through the full consequences of actions?

 

[m]

Why is it arrogant to suggest people don't think through the full consequences of actions?

It would be arrogant if you assumed that only those with views that oppose your own hadn't thought it through. It would also be arrogant if you assumed that those with an opposing view had necessarily not thought it through.

 

[QR]

It would be arrogant if you assumed that only those with views that oppose your own hadn't thought it through. It would also be arrogant if you assumed that those with an opposing view had necessarily not thought it through.

Yes, I can tell you with absolute certainty that some of my very well educated colleagues hot footed in their lunch hour to which every bank it was running the share issue to get their slice of 'free money' without a single thought for the consequence other than spouting Thatcher's private sector good public sector bad mantra. Naked greed.

 

[Marked Ox]

What I find a bit strange is the constant reference to victorian sewerage systems which need replacing, does this mean that no water company in the country replaced anything in the last 150 years, it’s more of a case that the systems put in to place since are not as good as the original pipe work,

Rather than fining the water companies for poor performance,the government should be fining them for not improving the network, forcing them to do what’s needed to meet statuary targets which are set by a indipendant body

My only contact with Thames water in the last number of years was a request to fit a water meter which they couldn’t do as they could not find the external stopcock , then put on a lower tariff due to that

Fining the water companies when privately owned is ultimately self defeating as it just gets passed on to the captive consumers, dividends aren't affected.

See also, investment in the infrastructure and they want to significantly increase bills to pay for its upgrade. They've had decades of profits to invest some of that into developing new infrastructure but the Water companies clearly don't believe in investing actual surplus to make future profits. Basically the shareholders/Boards want a no risk/cost investment.

 

[Mojofilter]

Why is it arrogant to suggest people don't think through the full consequences of actions?

how is it not arrogant to suggest that people who think differently to you mustn't be thinking things through and people who think like you are thinking deeply and intelligently? No attempt to understand another point of view and none of the humility of saying your position could equally be flawed, just saying how dumb everyone who thought differently to you is

 

[Peterdev]

I’ve always thought that there is no point fining companies for the reasons you mention. It is the same with the banks.
I find it unbelievable that the banks get away with hiking lending costs for mortgages while fleecing them with inadequate returns for savers.
Banks could many years ago be trusted to give impartial advice. Nowadays they are targeted to give advice that is more profitable to them.
Often financial advisers only have a few companies on their recommended panel, so again the customer is the loser as they get directed to the one that the maximises profit for the adviser

 

[QR]

how is it not arrogant to suggest that people who think differently to you mustn't be thinking things through and people who think like you are thinking deeply and intelligently? No attempt to understand another point of view and none of the humility of saying your position could equally be flawed, just saying how dumb everyone who thought differently to you is

Because I didn't say people who think differently I said people who don't think!

If they did I would be inundated with Brexit visions that actual work and make all our lives better. If they did people wouldn't have allowed naked greed to completely block their ability to think that privatisation might have some pretty awful downside. And as the example I gave above these are not stupid people they just allow greed or prejudice to close down their thinking. FFS there can't be a better example of this than water privatisation.

 

[Big Ron]

With the ongoing conversation about the pros and cons of nationalisation (largely cons!), did anyone see the Ben Elton railway documentary earlier in the week? It transpires that since privatisation, it has cost the tax payer more than when the railways were nationalised, even adjusting for inflation. Services are less reliable, prices higher and the real money being made is by the train leasing companies. None of this came as a surprise but it was interesting to see the actual figures.

There was a section on the Trans-Penine, officially Britain's worst performing franchise and an embarrassing interview clip with Minister of Transport Mark Harper who defended the lack of investment by saying there was higher car usage in the north......partly driven by poor rail services it turns out.

The lack of a coherent national travel infrastructure strategy is laughable, particularly as it is a key part of any notion to 'level-up'.

 

[RyanioBirdio]

With the ongoing conversation about the pros and cons of nationalisation (largely cons!), did anyone see the Ben Elton railway documentary earlier in the week? It transpires that since privatisation, it has cost the tax payer more than when the railways were nationalised, even adjusting for inflation. Services are less reliable, prices higher and the real money being made is by the train leasing companies. None of this came as a surprise but it was interesting to see the actual figures.

There was a section on the Trans-Penine, officially Britain's worst performing franchise and an embarrassing interview clip with Minister of Transport Mark Harper who defended the lack of investment by saying there was higher car usage in the north......partly driven by poor rail services it turns out.

The lack of a coherent national travel infrastructure strategy is laughable, particularly as it is a key part of any notion to 'level-up'.

You’re right. This is a mess.

We should sell more stuff!

 

[Berliner]

When our sewage systems were designed all those years ago what was the population of this country? What is it now?

When Londons sewers were first designed they actually did a survey of people to work out how much they shat so they could work out what was needed, we have basically been patching on to it since.

We are blasé and think ourselves above the subject because poo stinks, but it’s improved/saved more lives than any other human advancement, if we went back to throwing our s**t in the street people would soon look back on the time we had flush toilets as a golden age.

Actually, Joseph Bazalgette designed and oversaw - at huge cost - the first sewer pipes to be twice as big as what was then needed in the 1850s as he had the foresight to see further than his nose. He also chose a new and extremely expensive type of concrete that resists to this day.

In addition, he also designed the Battersea Bridge, Albert Bridge and parts of the Blackwall Tunnel. Quite the legend was Sir Joe!

 

[Mojofilter]

Because I didn't say people who think differently I said people who don't think!

If they did I would be inundated with Brexit visions that actual work and make all our lives better. If they did people wouldn't have allowed naked greed to completely block their ability to think that privatisation might have some pretty awful downside. And as the example I gave above these are not stupid people they just allow greed or prejudice to close down their thinking. FFS there can't be a better example of this than water privatisation.

I guess we see it differently. I apologise if my tone was a bit off, i didn't mean to have a go