International News Black Lives Matter

So if you met a German saying that Hitler did a lot of bad things but he built the autobahns andhere was a sense of order and respect back then how would you respond?
 
HKYellow said:
I think parts of this thread are interesting. Having lived in Hong Kong, Singapore and Malaysia, all countries previously under British rule, some of the stories and experiences I have heard are quite interesting.

Some of these include;
Yes the British were very stuck up, thought they were superior to everyone else.
They did take advantage of the population in a lot of instances

But;
We built a lot of good things in those countries which they not benefit from now. Infrastructure, roads, railways, buildings, etc etc
And there was a sense of order, structure, hierarchy and respect. I have heard that a lot from Indians, Malaysians, Honkeys and people in Singapore. They preferred it in a way compared to today (although Singapore has done pretty well under predominately Singaporean/Chinese rule)
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As empires go, ours was definitely the friendliest. I'm quite proud of it, even if it's not fashionable.
 
Doesn’t surprise me. What are your sources for how “ friendly “ the British Empire was, I wonder?
 
YellowTaxi said:
Doesn’t surprise me. What are your sources for how “ friendly “ the British Empire was, I wonder?
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I'm sorry but a few posts up you were acting as an apologist for Mercedes' involvement in Nazi rule. Fine because they apologized, apparently.

Odd that you would be so supportive of a company which stamped their logo onto the cars of high commanders and others, and whose products would roll into concentration camps in front of lines of Jews and vulnerable people. I wonder how they felt when they thought about the company.

Strange that symbols of racism against black people should be removed, yet symbols involved in the mass murder of Jews are ok because the company responsible apologised after profiting massively from their ill deeds.

Oh wait, you're a Corbynite aren't you?
 
YellowTaxi said:
So Essex now backing two dodgy blondes- Savile and Johnson
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Wrong again, I asked a question.
Was he convicted in a court of law? No.
Was he guilty? Different question for the hard of reading,it is very, very likely.

So now the hard moral question.................. take back the £40 million or so he raised? Well he was a kiddy fiddler which is in the same bracket as a slave trader.

Or do we just accept that there are bad people in society and, sometimes, those people get into a position of trust or power and the consequences are horrific?
Do we not learn from history which is how we develop and evolve...it doesn`t need a label, just be a decent human.
 
I wasn’t an apologist for Mercedes . I described the terrible crimes of the Nazis in which they were complicit and said there were prepared to engage with their past. Unlike you.

You live in a fantasy world @bashamwonderland - in which we were friendly and everyone loved us. Even the slaves.
 
This is what I wrote

As has been pointed out most German companies like Mercedes were involved in the crime of the German government. Many benefited from slave labour. Others profited from the way the Jewish businesses were stolen.


But there has been an increase in readiness by those companies to come clean about their involvement with the Nazi terror. Some have paid compensation, Others have told the story of the way that their business became corrupted so that German children growing up know the truth about what happened.
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If you call that being an apologist for Mercedes Either @bashamwonderland doesn’t know what the word means or he tells deliberate untruths so he can imply I’m am antisemite. Vile behaviour.
 
Anyone can read about British Colonial history................ try a thing called the internet.


Although it was better world when more of the globe was pink. :) :) (y)
 
Essexyellows said:
Anyone can read about British Colonial history................ try a thing called the internet.


Although it was better world when more of the globe was pink. :) :) (y)
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If you believe your second statement you’ve obviously not read enough of the articles you refer to in your first.
 
YellowTaxi said:
The Nazis were in power in Germany from 1933 to 1945. 12 years of regime which began looting robbing some of its own chitizens decided y ethnicity and ended in war and genocide.

As has been pointed out most German companies like Mercedes were involved in the crime of the German government. Many benefited from slave labour. Others profited from the way the Jewish businesses were stolen.


But there has been an increase in readiness by those companies to come clean about their involvement with the Nazi terror. Some have paid compensation, Others have told the story of the way that their business became corrupted so that German children growing up know the truth about what happened.

The Difference in this country is that the people who are compensated were not slaves but the slave owners. British taxpayers only finished paying off the loan the government took out so we could compensate thr slaveowners (the family of David Cameron for example) For the loss of their property- their slaves- in 2015.

Slavery created enormous wealth for many people in Britain. In Oxford All Souls College beautiful library build donated by Mr Codrington who made fortunes for slaves in the West Indies.

Equally many people knew it was wrong at the time. People campaigning against it. People denounced it. That’s why after a long political battle it was banned.

The hymn Amazing Grace was written by a former captain on a slave ship he suddenly realised the terrible things that he was doing. That’s what he meant byThat’s what he meant by“ I once was Lost but now I’m found was blind but now I see”

I don’t think it’s suprising that the descendants of those who were forcibly taken by a British ship from Africa to the West Indies where they were forced to work in the sugarcane fields for nothing, And undergoing tremendous cruelty should get angry when they see that the people responsible for taking their forefathers there are still honoured on the streets and towns of this country.

It is British history. And we should start by telling the truth about it.
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I've seen many documentaries on the slave trade, programmes following people through their family history, archaeological digs on plantations covering slaves and owners areas, read countless articles on digs/slave trade in papers/magazines/books, documentaries on how cities got significant wealth from slavery etc etc. And that goes back to when I can remember in the 80s and it was before then as well from comments from others.

So you are way behind the times pronouncing we should start by telling the truth about it like you are passing on some revelation to us.

Part of that truth is telling what happened with the wealth. Not just the fancy buildings but also people in this country who faced grinding poverty and exploitation themselves but because of philanthropic investment in education etc were able to improve their lives.
 
chuckbert said:
You're not proving a point at all. You're going all "reductio ad absurdum". It is not "hand-wringing" that racism is still a serious problem. "different people find different things offensive" and "we can't allow any one minority POV group to demand ...".
The simplistic solution that "we look forward in our lives and make today and tomorrow better for all" sounds beautiful, but is actually a liberal (gasp) sop to avoid conflict. Black people across the world have been listening to that s**t for a long time. People in the states have been waiting for substantial change for a long time, and it hasn't come yet.

I can't fathom how people can't see this - @Scotchegg seems to be good at explaining it - read what he says.

We are a long, long way from making progress on racism and sexism, but I guess an English football forum isn't the first place to seek enlightenment :)
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There is a logical conclusion that has to be followed in these debates and that comes with unintended conclusions! The mob now want Robert Baden-Powell's statue pulled down. So yeah, it's far left hand wringing over the past isn't it? Who next? Millicent Fawcett? Or Nancy Astor? What will all that actually achieve? Are books and films next?

What would you do?
 
YellowTaxi said:
I wasn’t an apologist for Mercedes . I described the terrible crimes of the Nazis in which they were complicit and said there were prepared to engage with their past. Unlike you.

You live in a fantasy world @bashamwonderland - in which we were friendly and everyone loved us. Even the slaves.
Click to expand...

YellowTaxi said:
This is what I wrote



If you call that being an apologist for Mercedes Either @bashamwonderland doesn’t know what the word means or he tells deliberate untruths so he can imply I’m am antisemite. Vile behaviour.
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In summary "they were all complicit and anyway they apologized". Then gloss over it.

I just find it odd that you're so vocal about removing symbols of race hate when it involves people of colour, but not the Jews.

It's just a bit weird is all.
 
Wow you really are an unpleasant chap aren't you? either you're incapable of understanding a sentence or you're deliberately lying.

Glossig ov er it would be if I said something like the Nazis were the friendliest occupiers in the world.

If you think the British Empire was friendly to the people it subjugated you are either seriously ill-informed or a racist. In your case I suspect it's both.
 
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YellowTaxi said:
Wow you really are an unpleasant chap aren't you? either you're incapable of understanding a sentence or you're deliberately lying.

Glossig ov er it would be if I said something like the Nazis were the friendliest occupiers in the world.

If you think the British Empire was friendly to the people it subjugated you are either seriously ill-informed or a racist. In your case I suspect it's both.
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But you are happy for every bit of history that maynhabe a bit of a cloud over it to be removed.
Oh and yes how hypocritical of Hamilton to stand with the logo of Mercedes whilst saying BLM
 
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