International News Black Lives Matter

[m]

What we shouldn't do is actively search for racism and create problems when there aren't any, and we shouldn't dilute the meaning of racism by calling people who aren't racist racists or calling things that aren't racist racist.

...and yet you called a speech which stated equality as an aim 'institutionalised racism'?

 

[Wandering Yellow]

I pay no more attention to rabid left wing extremists on Twitter than I do those who pollute social media with extreme right wing views. Ignoring both extremes is an easy enough discipline to follow.

The views I object to are those that vilify any sector of society based on colour, religion, sexuality etc etc. I'm sure you get the picture. I hope I don't 'search' for racism but I will surely counter it if I find it.

With regards footballers 'taking the knee', I've become ambivalent to their activity. I would personally prefer the tag line 'kick racism out' than 'black lives matter' as it's less specific. That said, the phrase black lives matter is not creating a problem in itself and people should feel free to use the phrase without reproach. (Let's not get into the difference between the BLM movement in the USA and the use of those three words in the UK. That's been done to death on here already).

I sincerely hope I have never referred to a non-racist person as racist, but racist tendencies exist on this board, even though they're hidden behind hatred of Islam and adoration of right wing hooligans (for example) as a 'non racist attitude'.

I haven't personally noticed any racism on this board, but I haven't been on any political threads beyond this one.

 

[Wandering Yellow]

I’m trying to work out if you really meant what you said here. You think that literally zero people in the US will not use a business due to the colour or gender of the owner?
I must have misunderstood because that is a highly unlikely scenario.

Do you really think people in the modern western society of America don't use certain businesses because of the colour of the owners skin, or their gender?

I have never known of a single person do that in the UK, most people don't even know what the race of the owner is. The fact people would even think about it is weird enough.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

I think there are parts of modern western society USA, certain communities, where business owners of particular races and ethnic backgrounds would struggle to open and sustain a viable business, yes.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-35255835

 

[chuckbert]

Do you really think people in the modern western society of America don't use certain businesses because of the colour of the owners skin, or their gender?

I have never known of a single person do that in the UK, most people don't even know what the race of the owner is. The fact people would even think about it is weird enough.

There are devout racists, Holocaust deniers, religious sect members, people who believe they were abducted by aliens and anally probed. People with paranoiac disorders, people with PTSD, people who were abused. Serial killers, child abusers, pathological liars and people with sub-60 iq.
Many thousands of them in every country. But not one person in the US would boycott a business because of its owner’s race or gender. Right.

 

[bashamwonderland]

By your own statistics though, if you are born a black man in America you are almost twice as likely to live in poverty as a white man (18% v 10%). That is a massive disparity, and surely worth addressing, no?

Yes. All poverty is worth addressing. Hispanic poverty is not less important or less worthy of support because it affects fewer people (15%) than black poverty (18%). Same goes for white and Asian poverty.

The percentage differences are definitely significant but there are still multiple millions of people in each groups.

 

[bashamwonderland]

Yet again, you have taken this out of context @bashamwonderland and @Wandering Yellow.

For completeness, here's a link to the transcript of Bidens speech: https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/joe-biden-introduces-economics-labor-nominees-speech-transcript

At no point does he say that Black, Latino Female...or whatever group, will recieve unequal access. It is plain wrong to suggest otherwise.

What he does say is that there were problems with uneven distribution of relief funds last time:

"As the month goes by, a third of Black-owned businesses and more than a fifth of Latino-owned businesses and more than a quarter of Native American-owned businesses, have less than one month of reserves to cover expenses. Previous rounds of economic relief last year helped millions of small businesses stay afloat and keep employees in the payroll. But there were clear problems. Black and Brown owned, small businesses had less access to that relief. Mom and pop shops were often the last in line, while big well-connected businesses jumped in front of the line and got more relief and got it faster."

He has highlighted a specific problem with unequal distribution of covid relief funds to small business, which he is seeking to redress. I daresay he would not say this without tangible evidence that this was actually the case (he's not Trump, after all!) It is nothing more, nothing less.

He goes on to say:
"And at every turn this administration, the Trump administration, has undermined accountability for every tax dollar spent. Weakening oversight, firing inspector generals. So it’s no surprise an independent watchdog found that tens of thousands of ineligible companies receive relief they should not have, including from fraud and abuse, siphoning off support for very small businesses that need it so badly. But the good news is that the relief package passed last month provides additional aid to small businesses and workers."

So the outgoing administration have reduced transparency that would have helped with even distribution and this (sounding like out own fulrough scheme) has also increased fraud and abuse

And then comes the bit that some people are getting so wound up about:

"But as I said from the beginning, the need to make sure that relief and future relief reaches everyone who needs it, we need to do more. These relief dollars will start to flow quickly potentially while the current administration is still in office and they may send out money that they won’t have any control over, but for what we have to control… need control over, I want to be very clear what my priorities are. For distributing this emergency aid swiftly and equitably. Our focus will be on small businesses on main street that aren’t wealthy and well-connected, that are facing real economic hardships through no fault of their own. Our priority will be Black, Latino, Asian, and Native American owned small businesses, women owned businesses, and finally having equal access to resources needed to reopen and rebuild."

And somehow this has triggered people into thinking he is prioritising everyone else over poor white people and that they just have to stay poor and suck it up, whislt others step over them

It is out of context and a complete over-reaction by some who seem to be purposefully trying to find an issue where there is none.

Just read the transcript and please point out the sections whre Biden is saying poor white people don't count or count less.

Please don't mistake lively debate with people being "upset" or being "triggered". I can't see much anger on the thread over the past few pages.

Also nobody is arguing that Biden is explicitly arguing that poor white people don't count or count less. So I don't think you're going to get a response to your challenge.

 

[cassox]

I’m trying to work out if you really meant what you said here. You think that literally zero people in the US will not use a business due to the colour or gender of the owner?
I must have misunderstood because that is a highly unlikely scenario.

Do you really think people in the modern western society of America don't use certain businesses because of the colour of the owners skin, or their gender?

I have never known of a single person do that in the UK, most people don't even know what the race of the owner is. The fact people would even think about it is weird enough.

Agree,typical leftie wokeist attitude.....seeing racism where there is none......hardly worth debating with them as they just cannot see it.......

 

[Wandering Yellow]

Agree,typical leftie wokeist attitude.....seeing racism where there is none......hardly worth debating with them as they just cannot see it.......

I don't think we should be dismissive of their opinions like this though. A lot of this comes down to opinion. We're going to get nowhere if neither side can respect each others opinion.

I get your frustration but I hope you see my point. Even though I disagree with them, it does often come from the right place and they have raised some decent points (amongst some nonsense!)

 

[chuckbert]

I don't think we should be dismissive of their opinions like this though. A lot of this comes down to opinion. We're going to get nowhere if neither side can respect each others opinion.

I get your frustration but I hope you see my point. Even though I disagree with them, it does often come from the right place and they have raised some decent points (amongst some nonsense!)

There’s opinion and there’s hyperbolae. Eg that only 21 milligrams of human in the whole population of the USA has racist attitudes to business owners.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

Please don't mistake lively debate with people being "upset" or being "triggered". I can't see much anger on the thread over the past few pages.

Also nobody is arguing that Biden is explicitly arguing that poor white people don't count or count less. So I don't think you're going to get a response to your challenge.

So why agree that a quote from Biden, taken out of context, is "systemic, institutionalised racism"?

And why suggest it is "not the way to quell violent protests from a predominantly white male crowd."?

In the context of Bidens speech, the first statement is simply an incorrect assertion and the second is enitrely irrelevant unless you (and I don't mean you as an individual for the sake of clarity) have purposefully chosen to take issue when there is none to be taken.

I'm not mistaking lively debate on here, far from it.

But there are thousands of white Muricans with weapons grade equipment, itching for a fight who WILL get upset/triggered about this and see it as inflammatory, when it simply isn't and what they should be doing if they take a deep breath and think rationally about it for a moment is the exact opposite and see this for what it is - an attempt to bring equity.

Unless of course they don't want others to have the same as them....

 

[cassox]

I don't think we should be dismissive of their opinions like this though. A lot of this comes down to opinion. We're going to get nowhere if neither side can respect each others opinion.

I get your frustration but I hope you see my point. Even though I disagree with them, it does often come from the right place and they have raised some decent points (amongst some nonsense!)

I'm happy to listen to anything they say but when it comes to them listening they block their ears and put their heads in the sand while crying RACISM and attempting to ban people,thats happened more than once on this site.

 

[Wandering Yellow]

There’s opinion and there’s hyperbolae. Eg that only 21 milligrams of human in the whole population of the USA has racist attitudes to business owners.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it's certainly a hard concept for me to get my head around. "I'm not going to shop in that store, because it's owned by a Filipino lady" is just a crazy mindset. I've never met or even heard of anyone refusing to shop somewhere because of the owner's origin, it's a bizarre concept in the modern world.

One phenomenon that is true, that another user pointed out with an article, is that different ethnicities tend to group together. This has been a phenomenon as long as time itself I imagine. Even in multicultural London today, there are still largely pockets of the same races grouped together. I don't know why this happens, I suppose people just like living where they feel comfortable in a shared culture.

I was talking to an Indian girl once who told me most Indian parents would disapprove of their children marrying a black, white or muslim person. I never thought of this as particularly racist for some reason, and every Indian I've met has been a nice person, I think there are still just some cultural attitudes which are maybe "problematic" in the current world.

 

[m]

The last 3 pages because a non-woke, non-leftie cried RACISM where there was none.

Alanis Morrissette would cream herself.

 

[Wandering Yellow]

I'm happy to listen to anything they say but when it comes to them listening they block their ears and put their heads in the sand while crying RACISM and attempting to ban people,thats happened more than once on this site.

But from their point of view being called a woke lefty is just as annoying as when they call us far-right racist nutjobs. Doesn't really move the debate along at the end of the day. I'm not calling you out by any means, but just getting annoyed with people of certain attitudes and labelling them stuff is wrong, I've done it myself before

 

[Wandering Yellow]

But from their point of view being called a woke lefty is just as annoying as when they call us far-right racist nutjobs. Doesn't really move the debate along at the end of the day. I'm not calling you out by any means, but just getting annoyed with people of certain attitudes and labelling them stuff is wrong, I've done it myself before

Also, to add to this, a lot of people on the left on here aren't the kind of crazies you encounter on Twitter. Some posts in this thread have restored a bit of faith that you can still have rational debate in the UK without it getting tribal (amazingly). I left Twitter but compared to that cesspit this thread is progress!

 

[chuckbert]

Maybe I'm wrong, but it's certainly a hard concept for me to get my head around. "I'm not going to shop in that store, because it's owned by a Filipino lady" is just a crazy mindset. I've never met or even heard of anyone refusing to shop somewhere because of the owner's origin, it's a bizarre concept in the modern world.

I understand that you find it hard to believe. From previous conversations on here it is clear that you have some difficulty putting yourself in other peoples' shoes. Sure it's a crazy mindset. What makes you think that there aren't lots and lots of crazy, irrational, ill-motivated people around? There was a bloke wearing buffalo horns and a fur cozy with MAGA make-up who is a known QAnon supporter (now there's crazy in itself ...) who broke into the DC Capitol last week and roared, and now he is in prison he is not eating because they don't serve organic food (although he fights for a president who has done everything he can to reduce food and environmental standards). That's the friendlier end of crazy. It goes way, way futher than that.
Here's something more crazy - is it more or less crazy than a racist not shopping in a black-owned shop?

American cannibalism trial starts with warning of gruesome photos

Jurors have warned the images of the crime scene will be “worse than anything you would see in a horror movie”.

www.smh.com.au

 

[cassox]

I understand that you find it hard to believe. From previous conversations on here it is clear that you have some difficulty putting yourself in other peoples' shoes. Sure it's a crazy mindset. What makes you think that there aren't lots and lots of crazy, irrational, ill-motivated people around? There was a bloke wearing buffalo horns and a fur cozy with MAGA make-up who is a known QAnon supporter (now there's crazy in itself ...) who broke into the DC Capitol last week and roared, and now he is in prison he is not eating because they don't serve organic food (although he fights for a president who has done everything he can to reduce food and environmental standards). That's the friendlier end of crazy. It goes way, way futher than that.
Here's something more crazy - is it more or less crazy than a racist not shopping in a black-owned shop?

American cannibalism trial starts with warning of gruesome photos

Jurors have warned the images of the crime scene will be “worse than anything you would see in a horror movie”.

www.smh.com.au

pardon my ignorance but what has "eating organic food" and "environmental food standards" got to do with each other??

 

[Essexyellows]

pardon my ignorance but what has "eating organic food" and "environmental food standards" got to do with each other??

If that needs explaining your ignorance maybe un-pardonable.

Organic food is generally "as nature intended, unadulterated, no chemicals, sustainable etc"

Environmental food standards are almost the polar opposite in Donald`s world.
Ergo: Pile it high, sell it cheap, produce it fast, use drugs, chemicals etc and fudge "the environment".

 

[cassox]

If that needs explaining your ignorance maybe un-pardonable.

Organic food is generally "as nature intended, unadulterated, no chemicals, sustainable etc"

Environmental food standards are almost the polar opposite in Donald`s world.
Ergo: Pile it high, sell it cheap, produce it fast, use drugs, chemicals etc and fudge "the environment".

If you eat organic food then you surely dont have to worry about environmental food standards???? so they dont have anything to do with each other......