Salary cap confirmed

[Scotchegg]

How would people feel if there was a PL2, but we were part of it? Our ambition is to be a sustainable and successful club in the championship or higher. We have a huge catchment area and could pull on ten's of thousands of tourists to increase our fan base and a board who are looking to invest for the long term.

So it's not beyond belief that we could be one of the top 40 odd clubs in the country and part of the footballing elite!

 

[werthersoriginal]

How would people feel if there was a PL2, but we were part of it? Our ambition is to be a sustainable and successful club in the championship or higher. We have a huge catchment area and could pull on ten's of thousands of tourists to increase our fan base and a board who are looking to invest for the long term.

So it's not beyond belief that we could be one of the top 40 odd clubs in the country and part of the footballing elite!

I’m happy either way, as long as there’s promotion and relegation and every club has a chance to get there.

 

[m]

How would people feel if there was a PL2, but we were part of it?

The same as I would I feel if we weren't.

As long as promotion and relegation occurs between all tiers it wouldn't be the end of the world.

It's ironic that EFL clubs should fear PL2 when you consider that only 2 exchange between the EFL and National League.

 

[Marked Ox]

It would have made sense for the dickmeister to sign a new contract before these shenanigans with a certain buy out clause. Means he can go if a club meets our valuation but if not he gets more than the wage cap thingymajig.

The PFA challenging the changes means they might not be active yet (according to the PFA certainly) so in theory he could still sign a new contract and his wage against the Cap be limited. He is moving on though imo so only academic.

 

[RyanioBirdio]

Your argument relies on the relegated teams having spent their money wisely, and on players who won't want to leave after the relegation. For new players, they get to spend the same as us.

If they spent their money wisely, why did they get relegated?

If all their good players leave, aren't they just stuck with the chancers draining wages they can't earn anywhere else?

Proof will be in the numbers I guess.

The gap between caps is so incredibly vast that it means the ones coming down will be the worst of the very, very best. Who are much more likely to be comfortably the best of the worst as a result. It’s too big - it isn’t like now where you can come down and find yourself pitted against equally large clubs who may have a bit to spend, or modest sized clubs with decent budgets as they’ve sold millions of pounds of players and have decided to up a gear. As it stands we would be around a million quid over budget, and we were mid table on spending last season. 2.5m is around what we spent in L2 five years ago, and that’s now the norm. The gap is going to be so big that any team relegated is going to be a heavyweight suddenly fighting a load of bantamweights. All the clubs with 4, 5, 6m budgets won’t be there. Unless they’ve come down already and then they all just bottle neck. I’ve already also gone into how before they come down to begin with Championship (PL2) clubs will have been able to sign and hoard all the players that clubs at our level can no longer afford. Players that would’ve gone to the bigger clubs at this level like Portsmouth or Ipswich, or clubs who are in a position to spend a bit like us and Peterborough, will now be much more inclined to skip us out all together because nobody in this league can pay more than 1500 a week on average, and 2500 a week in the next division is still chicken feed but infinitely more than we can offer.

This, by the way, is before you even consider whether or not a club is as desirable to a potential buyer anymore. Why would you buy a club if you can’t invest to expand the business? To the point that even if the business generates profits without needing a sugar daddy splurging on it all, you aren’t allowed to invest any of it? Why on earth would anybody buy any business if they were told they weren’t allowed to invest in it and were capped to how large it was essentially allowed to be? How is that going to help any club in financial difficulty (nobody is starting from zero - the debt is there already) attract a new buyer, when that buyer is totally hamstrung and is essentially signing up to nothing but existing debt management, with no ability to invest? And then when that club can’t find anyone to take it on because it can’t grow, and it’s fighting against bigger and bigger opponents every year who are pulling further and further away, what happens to them then?

Come on!

 

[QR]

But they are not changing the ability of the individual player to get £3k. It is the total.

They are if it takes them over the cap.

 

[RgYellows]

The gap between caps is so incredibly vast that it means the ones coming down will be the worst of the very, very best. Who are much more likely to be comfortably the best of the worst as a result. It’s too big - it isn’t like now where you can come down and find yourself pitted against equally large clubs who may have a bit to spend, or modest sized clubs with decent budgets as they’ve sold millions of pounds of players and have decided to up a gear. As it stands we would be around a million quid over budget, and we were mid table on spending last season. 2.5m is around what we spent in L2 five years ago, and that’s now the norm. The gap is going to be so big that any team relegated is going to be a heavyweight suddenly fighting a load of bantamweights. All the clubs with 4, 5, 6m budgets won’t be there. Unless they’ve come down already and then they all just bottle neck. I’ve already also gone into how before they come down to begin with Championship (PL2) clubs will have been able to sign and hoard all the players that clubs at our level can no longer afford. Players that would’ve gone to the bigger clubs at this level like Portsmouth or Ipswich, or clubs who are in a position to spend a bit like us and Peterborough, will now be much more inclined to skip us out all together because nobody in this league can pay more than 1500 a week on average, and 2500 a week in the next division is still chicken feed but infinitely more than we can offer.

This, by the way, is before you even consider whether or not a club is as desirable to a potential buyer anymore. Why would you buy a club if you can’t invest to expand the business? To the point that even if the business generates profits without needing a sugar daddy splurging on it all, you aren’t allowed to invest any of it? Why on earth would anybody buy any business if they were told they weren’t allowed to invest in it and were capped to how large it was essentially allowed to be? How is that going to help any club in financial difficulty (nobody is starting from zero - the debt is there already) attract a new buyer, when that buyer is totally hamstrung and is essentially signing up to nothing but existing debt management, with no ability to invest? And then when that club can’t find anyone to take it on because it can’t grow, and it’s fighting against bigger and bigger opponents every year who are pulling further and further away, what happens to them then?

Come on!

Who would want to invest in a business that turns out stable profits every year?

Can't think of anyone.

God forbid our football club isn't run by someone trying to make themselves rich from it.

As for the rest, I'm not saying you are wrong, I just can't see it. But if it does happen, the 21 clubs who miss out every year vote to undo it.

Sunderland got relegated with the sort of advantage you describe, and yet the only players I wanted off them are the ones they signed after the drop. Clubs in the Champ spending £50m could already afford to keep Matty Taylor on the bench if they wanted to.

I enjoyed the "Come on!"

 

[Jason N]

I'm assuming that we have very little chance of signing Browne now

 

[ttg17]

Who would want to invest in a business that turns out guaranteed profits every year?

Can't think of anyone.

God forbid our football club isn't run by someone trying to make themselves rich from it.

I enjoyed the "Come on!"

Where are the profits going though? If you can’t really reinvest them in the business? There’s only so much you can invest in youth and ‘community engagement’ as you suggested earlier. Success in football can only really be sustained if you can reinvest money into on-pitch quality. I would even tentatively suggest that we might see some even more malevolent actors buying football clubs in the near future. Think about it - if you buy a Sunderland, there’s literally a maximum you can now spend on the club, a maximum that is well below the club’s revenues. So long as they keep the club in this league, what’s to stop them pocketing the rest of that revenue?

 

[Scotchegg]

I'm assuming that we have very little chance of signing Browne now

Potentially more chance of a loan. Middlesbrough may need to cut their budget significantly, and will be stuck paying the wages of someone who may not feature. Loaning him out will free up an average wage which will be much more than Browne is on.

 

[RgYellows]

Where are the profits going though? If you can’t really reinvest them in the business?

Honestly if you have maxed out the spending on youth, coaching and community engagement and you choose to buy a boat and a ferrari i dont care.

 

[ttg17]

Disagreed. You can grow through promotion, and promotion is easier for a club that is better managed than its peers. You can also grow through investment in coaching and in youth, and investment in the community that increases their engagement with your club and puts you on a better footing once you get into the higher division. What it stops you doing is spending vastly more on salaries than clubs at your same playing level.

I do not see that the old regime would have been properly enforced and I am not convinced it was realistically capable of being properly enforced.

Fundamentally, it is odd to me that when listing advantages we say "Our club might be run sustainably and we might stop worrying about whether it exists or not in five years" and this is not in flashing yellow and blue text, in bold, in capital letters, at the top of that list.

The point is surely that after a few years promotion is no longer going to be much of a viable option. I’m not against the club being sustainable at all, I don’t think any of us are - but I fail to see how this limit helps any more than the previous one did. Did Bolton or Bury spend any more than the rest of their respective leagues two years ago? Or just more than they could afford? Because if the latter, a wage cap surely doesn’t help.

 

[ttg17]

Honestly if you have maxed out the spending on youth, coaching and community engagement and you choose to buy a boat and a ferrari i dont care.

honestly this might all have been worth it if we could have seen the Sunderland forum after it emerged Charlie and SD were funnelling money out of the club to buy themselves a yacht

 

[warksox]

But if it does happen, the 21 clubs who miss out every year vote to undo it.

Faced with such a huge cliff-edge between Championship and L1, I think it far more likely that the 21 Championship clubs would vote to end relegation.

 

[RgYellows]

honestly this might all have been worth it if we could have seen the Sunderland forum after it emerged Charlie and SD were funnelling money out of the club to buy themselves a yacht

Luckily for us we still have big purchases like our ground to consider before we are maxed out on the "investment" thing but I cant speak for sunderland

 

[werthersoriginal]

Where are the profits going though? If you can’t really reinvest them in the business? There’s only so much you can invest in youth and ‘community engagement’ as you suggested earlier. Success in football can only really be sustained if you can reinvest money into on-pitch quality. I would even tentatively suggest that we might see some even more malevolent actors buying football clubs in the near future. Think about it - if you buy a Sunderland, there’s literally a maximum you can now spend on the club, a maximum that is well below the club’s revenues. So long as they keep the club in this league, what’s to stop them pocketing the rest of that revenue?

Why not get the club promoted? Then you can spend six times as much

 

[RgYellows]

The point is surely that after a few years promotion is no longer going to be much of a viable option. I’m not against the club being sustainable at all, I don’t think any of us are - but I fail to see how this limit helps any more than the previous one did. Did Bolton or Bury spend any more than the rest of their respective leagues two years ago? Or just more than they could afford? Because if the latter, a wage cap surely doesn’t help.

It does help if they spent more than the wage cap.

 

[Steve Gilbert]

It is amazing how quickly the EFL can enforce a salary cap yet it took them months and months to sort out the Bury and Bolton situations. Has the EFL even concluded what is happening with Macclesfield and their point deduction yet as surely that has an impact on how Stevenage plan their season?

 

[Fred]

Faced with such a huge cliff-edge between Championship and L1, I think it far more likely that the 21 Championship clubs would vote to end relegation.

I don't know what powers The FA have in reality but I don't see relegation would stop. If div 1 and 2 were not professional you might have some logic.

 

[Fred]

It is amazing how quickly the EFL can enforce a salary cap yet it took them months and months to sort out the Bury and Bolton situations. Has the EFL even concluded what is happening with Macclesfield and their point deduction yet as surely that has an impact on how Stevenage plan their season?

Perhaps survival of some clubs especially in div2? Look at the vote in div2 they wanted it!