Tomorrow's press conference

[bazzer9461]

This is the concern for me as well - and we've seen it before, because it's exactly what happened (on the pitch, at least) when Kassam was in charge.

For all the legitimate stick he gets, Kassam did try to give the football thing a go....at least in the first few years. Hence the money paid out for the likes of Stockley, Scott & Moody, and his constant meddling in firing and appointing managers. Problem was, he had absolutely no clue what he was doing and made idiotic, rash decisions mostly on the basis of ego (Diaz & co. being the most obvious, but one of many). And he never delegated to anyone knowledgeable and competent to manage on pitch affairs.

Of course the difference is that Kassam also had eyes on asset stripping the club, and that he did with ruthless efficiency. We're not going to get that from Tiger, because there's nothing left to strip, but first impressions suggest that it's going to be a similar show on the field. And that never ends well.

All fingers and toes crossed that those first impressions (and reports) are wrong, that Tiger's going to appoint a competent manager, back him with some funds and sit back and watch. Because I don't want to be watching non-league football again in five years' time.

I think you mean Mooney?

 

[Colin B]

Colin, they are not my pals, in fact I have never met them in person just read their posts. They have made a number of posts highlighting issues that should concern us as supporters. Lundinsponytail does have a problem in being able to debate without getting personal, but he also makes some very good points regarding his concerns. He has a great relationship with S Donald who it would appear gave Satori some good advice on potential funding (£20m) he would need to make available if his bid had been accepted. My concern is that we have replaced one owner with limited funds with another, which after the highly anticipated press conference, left us with more questions and little if any answers.

I have a gut feeling that our new owner may not be all he seems, only time will tell.

As for free speech?

But you were the one referring to what you called "constant unwarranted attacks" by Dave T on the other three posters, inferring that he should stop and allow them to post without question.

I am not debating the pros and cons of whether Tiger/Darryl/OxVox/Dave/Charlie et al are good bad or indifferent, but I am standing up for each to have free speech, whether we agree with them or not.

Shutting Dave T down, because you don't like his viewpoint is not acceptable, unless you live in North Korea.

PS: Charlie isn't the only one who's friends with Stewart.

 

[yellowbow]

This is the concern for me as well - and we've seen it before, because it's exactly what happened (on the pitch, at least) when Kassam was in charge.

For all the legitimate stick he gets, Kassam did try to give the football thing a go....at least in the first few years. Hence the money paid out for the likes of Stockley, Scott & Moody, and his constant meddling in firing and appointing managers. Problem was, he had absolutely no clue what he was doing and made idiotic, rash decisions mostly on the basis of ego (Diaz & co. being the most obvious, but one of many). And he never delegated to anyone knowledgeable and competent to manage on pitch affairs.

Of course the difference is that Kassam also had eyes on asset stripping the club, and that he did with ruthless efficiency. We're not going to get that from Tiger, because there's nothing left to strip, but first impressions suggest that it's going to be a similar show on the field. And that never ends well.

All fingers and toes crossed that those first impressions (and reports) are wrong, that Tiger's going to appoint a competent manager, back him with some funds and sit back and watch. Because I don't want to be watching non-league football again in five years' time.

I hope I’m wrong but it’s looking like he’s ripped up four weeks worth of identifying a new manager through a shortlist and interview process by DE and co, to install someone he prefers instead, which also reminds me of the old FK method of manager recruitment.

 

[Lundinsponytail]

But you were the one referring to what you called "constant unwarranted attacks" by Dave T on the other three posters, inferring that he should stop and allow them to post without question.

I am not debating the pros and cons of whether Tiger/Darryl/OxVox/Dave/Charlie et al are good bad or indifferent, but I am standing up for each to have free speech, whether we agree with them or not.

Shutting Dave T down, because you don't like his viewpoint is not acceptable, unless you live in North Korea.

PS: Charlie isn't the only one who's friends with Stewart.

Cripes, no - and nor does being matey with anyone mean anything more than what it says on the tin. I do note, though, that Dave T is constantly referring back, snidely, to past comments made by Myles and me. Twisting them and trying to use them to discredit what we say today. For instance, I once said that Tranmere had made a shrewd appointment in Mickey Adams, and that he would get them playing pragmatic football, which is what Mapp needed to do with us. Ever since then, he has attempted to claim/ imply that I suggested we fire Appleton and hire Adams. Which I categorically never did. I was simply wrong about Tranmere's appointment of Adams - and Christ has Dave been wrong about a lot since (the entire performance of our team this season, and Pep's abilities as a manager, to name just two recent boo boos he has made).

I think that it would be helpful, in these troubled times, if we all address the issues as they are, and as people are debating them right now. No need, really, to refer to people's views in the past. When the facts change, we are all allowed to change our views. That is life. If we ever were always correct about everything, then we wouldn't be on a lower league football forum, me'thinks.

Dave T's viewpoint - that he's not 100% sure about things, but inclined to look on the sunny side until and unless events prove otherwise - is perfectly valid. In my happier moments, I incline to agree with him. But equally valid are Myles' detailed, serious, well-researched concerns. It debases the level of debate on here to suggest, as Dave does in moments of weakness, that it's somehow all cooked up, agenda-driven nonsense. If you don't agree with it, then go through it, do your own research and refute it line by line, with references to published sources (to counter those sources that Myles has used). THAT is what will make for a really decent, de-personalised forum.

I have a feeling, maybe incorrect, that we are due for some difficult times. And we need to address those as united as we can be as a fanbase. There is no conspiracy against Tiger. Nor is there a conspiracy against OxVox. Nor is there a conspiracy against me. Or Myles. In fact, I suspect - beyond the egos and gang mentality - that, as of right now, virtually all sensible posters on this forum are based somewhere between two points:

1. Most optimistic: Tiger might be Ok or a disaster - we just don't know - but not much we can do so why get knickers in a twist
2. Most pessimistic: Not 100% sure, but this feels like it could go wrong

But I think that we should be alert, and asking the right questions (politely) and pushing for answers. Otherwise, we will thoroughly deserve any bruising that we might be cruising for.

 

[T’ai Chi]

But you were the one referring to what you called "constant unwarranted attacks" by Dave T on the other three posters, inferring that he should stop and allow them to post without question.

I am not debating the pros and cons of whether Tiger/Darryl/OxVox/Dave/Charlie et al are good bad or indifferent, but I am standing up for each to have free speech, whether we agree with them or not.

Shutting Dave T down, because you don't like his viewpoint is not acceptable, unless you live in North Korea.

PS: Charlie isn't the only one who's friends with Stewart.

It has nothing to do with his viewpoint more to the constant bickering filling the forum. Quite agree we all have the right to our opinions and no doubt your correct about friends, I was just pointing out the fact that S Donald was informing Satori that the cost of buying the club and stadium would be expensive. Charlie has mentioned his friendship in a number of posts and the fact that S Donald has been part of two attempts to buy the club as part of a group/pairing. You must admit that Charlie was involved in both in one way or another. I believe the figures that Satori Alerted too was correct and maybe Tiger has been given these figures as well.

Don’t want to get bogged down with this so let’s move on.

 

[Foley]

I hope I’m wrong but it’s looking like he’s ripped up four weeks worth of identifying a new manager through a shortlist and interview process by DE and co, to install someone he prefers instead, which also reminds me of the old FK method of manager recruitment.

I am not sure that has been said at all.
It sounds like Bellamy is one of four in the hunt. Tiger, not unreasonably has maybe brought a couple more into the equation.
With regard to a manager at a football club, it seems to me that the relationship between the Chairman/ owner and the first team manager/ coach is critical.
Tiger has suggested that the appointment could happen this week, a week after he has taken over so hardly ripped up four weeks worth of identifying a new manager.
Incidentally I would suspect that Bellamy would want some reassurance as well before he accepted any role with a new owner...

 

[Foley]

I have a feeling, maybe incorrect, that we are due for some difficult times. And we need to address those as united as we can be as a fanbase. There is no conspiracy against Tiger. Nor is there a conspiracy against OxVox. Nor is there a conspiracy against me. Or Myles. In fact, I suspect - beyond the egos and gang mentality - that, as of right now, virtually all sensible posters on this forum are based somewhere between two points:

1. Most optimistic: Tiger might be Ok or a disaster - we just don't know - but not much we can do so why get knickers in a twist
2. Most pessimistic: Not 100% sure, but this feels like it could go wrong

But I think that we should be alert, and asking the right questions (politely) and pushing for answers. Otherwise, we will thoroughly deserve any bruising that we might be cruising for.

I would think that most people would agree with the last point.

The one good thing I would say about Tiger, is that he appointed a decent manager who nearly got Reading into the Premiership (on a far lower budget than many clubs in the Championship if he is to be believed)

However there are enough things that people will have legitimate worries about. Yesterday's press conference was incredibly badly handled and hardly got Tiger off to a flier .....

 

[Foley]

It has nothing to do with his viewpoint more to the constant bickering filling the forum. Quite agree we all have the right to our opinions and no doubt your correct about friends, I was just pointing out the fact that S Donald was informing Satori that the cost of buying the club and stadium would be expensive. Charlie has mentioned his friendship in a number of posts and the fact that S Donald has been part of two attempts to buy the club as part of a group/pairing. You must admit that Charlie was involved in both in one way or another. I believe the figures that Satori Alerted too was correct and maybe Tiger has been given these figures as well.

Don’t want to get bogged down with this so let’s move on.

It would be great if the bickering on the forum disappeared.

 

[Deleted member 462]

But you were the one referring to what you called "constant unwarranted attacks" by Dave T on the other three posters, inferring that he should stop and allow them to post without question.

I am not debating the pros and cons of whether Tiger/Darryl/OxVox/Dave/Charlie et al are good bad or indifferent, but I am standing up for each to have free speech, whether we agree with them or not.

Shutting Dave T down, because you don't like his viewpoint is not acceptable, unless you live in North Korea.

PS: Charlie isn't the only one who's friends with Stewart.

Cripes, no - and nor does being matey with anyone mean anything more than what it says on the tin. I do note, though, that Dave T is constantly referring back, snidely, to past comments made by Myles and me. Twisting them and trying to use them to discredit what we say today. For instance, I once said that Tranmere had made a shrewd appointment in Mickey Adams, and that he would get them playing pragmatic football, which is what Mapp needed to do with us. Ever since then, he has attempted to claim/ imply that I suggested we fire Appleton and hire Adams. Which I categorically never did. I was simply wrong about Tranmere's appointment of Adams - and Christ has Dave been wrong about a lot since (the entire performance of our team this season, and Pep's abilities as a manager, to name just two recent boo boos he has made).

I think that it would be helpful, in these troubled times, if we all address the issues as they are, and as people are debating them right now. No need, really, to refer to people's views in the past. When the facts change, we are all allowed to change our views. That is life. If we ever were always correct about everything, then we wouldn't be on a lower league football forum, me'thinks.

Dave T's viewpoint - that he's not 100% sure about things, but inclined to look on the sunny side until and unless events prove otherwise - is perfectly valid. In my happier moments, I incline to agree with him. But equally valid are Myles' detailed, serious, well-researched concerns. It debases the level of debate on here to suggest, as Dave does in moments of weakness, that it's somehow all cooked up, agenda-driven nonsense. If you don't agree with it, then go through it, do your own research and refute it line by line, with references to published sources (to counter those sources that Myles has used). THAT is what will make for a really decent, de-personalised forum.

I have a feeling, maybe incorrect, that we are due for some difficult times. And we need to address those as united as we can be as a fanbase. There is no conspiracy against Tiger. Nor is there a conspiracy against OxVox. Nor is there a conspiracy against me. Or Myles. In fact, I suspect - beyond the egos and gang mentality - that, as of right now, virtually all sensible posters on this forum are based somewhere between two points:

1. Most optimistic: Tiger might be Ok or a disaster - we just don't know - but not much we can do so why get knickers in a twist
2. Most pessimistic: Not 100% sure, but this feels like it could go wrong

But I think that we should be alert, and asking the right questions (politely) and pushing for answers. Otherwise, we will thoroughly deserve any bruising that we might be cruising for.

Charlie I don’t use them to discredit u, purely point out that ur not always right, and neither am I by a long way. The only thing I care about is my team, u too no doubt, but both with different ways of showing it.

“No need, really, to refer to people's views in the past. When the facts change, we are all allowed to change our views”

Isn’t this what u urself have been doing constantly over my view at xmas that we wouldnt be relegated ?

Ok so I pull up old posts of urs, u get very personal and drop to personal insults and name calling. No need for either then wouldn’t u agree, not just me in the wrong is it?

Refuting myles evidence is exactly what I’ve been doing, I probably come across argumentative, or having a go, that’s not it at all. I’d don’t know where to find it or have contacts that would have that sort of info, so I ask for evidence, I ask if it’s actually fact that they are involved. That’s not saying I think he’s cooked it up, I’ve said from day 1 a don’t doubt 1 single item of it.

The mickey Adams thing is a joke, I really thought somewhere in there u might just have a bit of a sense of humour, if my best mate had made that comment, I’d be doing exactly the same thing ribbing him for it at every opportunity.

U have more inside knowledge than most of us put together, and putting that to use with the club rather than coming across as in a constant struggle against it would be amazing.

I agree we all need to pull together as a fan base, as his evidence is now pretty irrelevant, there’s not a lot any of us can do about it. Just strap in and hope it a nice ride.

 

[MarkG]

I’d been hoping Tiger was a front man for a bigger consortium lurking in the background.

As charlie said, Donald told Sartori he needed around £20M to have a serious go at oxford , and it doesn’t look like this sort of money is floating around in the background anywhere.

More signs of financial insecurity is that Eales has said he’s deferred some of his sales cash so Tiger can invest it in the Club instead. I saw the £9M investment quoted again but does this include the ported WPL debt?

So do we have a Nick Merry like fantasy chairman with no money behind him?

Or are Tiger and pals about to do a deal with Kassam to fill in corners and car parts, share the profits and then depart leaving us in a stadium destined never to be fit for championship level attendances?

 

[Lundinsponytail]

I’d been hoping Tiger was a front man for a bigger consortium lurking in the background.

As charlie said, Donald told Sartori he needed around £20M to have a serious go at oxford , and it doesn’t look like this sort of money is floating around in the background anywhere.

More signs of financial insecurity is that Eales has said he’s deferred some of his sales cash so Tiger can invest it in the Club instead. I saw the £9M investment quoted again but does this include the ported WPL debt?

So do we have a Nick Merry like fantasy chairman with no money behind him?

Or are Tiger and pals about to do a deal with Kassam to fill in corners and car parts, share the profits and then depart leaving us in a stadium destined never to be fit for championship level attendances?

I'm pretty sure that the last concern is not currently on the horizon. It is commonly acknowledged that they haven't spoken to Firoz, and that FK is pretty hacked off that, unlike Sartori, they haven't been sensible enough to go and speak to him.

But elsewhere, yes I think that there are some wonderful stories being told. Let's take the "£9 million investment" that DE claims he has made into the club. What a load of old baloney. Here is what happened:

1. He bought the club for £4 million in summer 2014. As part of the deal, he also bought £4 million of IL's debt for £1.
2. In two tranches during the first two years he was here, DE invested/ allocated £6.3 million. At this point, the club debt to him was a staggering £10.3 million, which roughly equated to the total equity Ensco had originally allocated to the project in 2014.
3. The club lost a total of £4 million during the first two seasons he was here (helpfully, the financial year and the start of his tenure coincided, so easy to work these things out sequentially). This money was duly drawn down from the allocated funds, leaving a surplus of £2.3 million entering season 2016/2017. Thus the actual investment at this, the highest point, was circa £8 million.
4. Following the sales of Roofe and O'Dowda, and good attendances/ Cup revenues, the club made a reasonably substantial profit during that financial year (DE himself has confirmed that a profit was made). I was told that it was circa £500k, and apparently that included a substantial rise in outgoings to 'administrative and management expenses'....
5. Notwithstanding those consultancy payments, therefore, as of May 2017 DE's total investment (as he was due to sell to Sartori) was around £7.5 million. £4 million to buy the club and net £3.5 million to run it for three seasons.
6. Summer 2017 saw net incomings to the club of £4 million (Roofe and COD addons of £1.2 millions; MApp compensation of £300k; Sercombe sale of £175k; Lundstram sale of £750k; Marvin first instalment of £1.5 million). On the debit side, there were a few small payments out for Ledson and co and part of the sales went into funding an increased playing budget. There was also the cost of running the club during the summer of, say, £300k.

So, as of the start of the season the slate was about even. Now, there are all sorts of weird and wonderful things that one can do with 'soft' debt, to make sure that it stays nice and high ('management charges' that get invoiced but remain unpaid are a favourite amongst various company owners). But in real, moral terms no-one should have been owed anything by anyone at that point. I imagine that the club has gone on to lose another £1 million or so while this season has "progressed", so by sale time DE's investment was £4 million buying the club and about £1 million of genuine "debt accrued on his watch".... but with the assets of the completion of Marvin's transfer to come.

There is nothing "wrong" with the above, by the way. It's all common enough practice, and is not even dodgy, let alone illegal. But claiming to have "invested £9 million" into OUFC gives a misleading impression to casual onlookers. I'm sure that was not the intention, so happy to set the record more or less straight!

 

[Marked Ox]

He had to guarantee to invest £10 million on top of the £5.6 million, AS A MINIMUM IN THE SHORT TERM, and put it in escrow.

So £16 million is the lowest he can invest in total. And that is at a club that owns its own 18,000 capacity stadium. The Pompey supporters trust were absolutely a**e-aching in ensuring that whoever took them on could properly afford it, and would not be debting the club up or operating on a wing and a prayer.

The Pompey owner does though have to pay many £millions to just get Fratton Park upto a passable standard.

 

[Lundinsponytail]

The Pompey owner does though have to pay many £millions to just get Fratton Park upto a passable standard.

Er, yes he does. That's the point. The Pompey Supporters Trust worked out what the appropriate MINIMUM level of finance would need to be and Eisner had to guarantee that he could provide it. They were guaranteeing a debt free club, with an up-to-date 20,000 stadium and revenues able to compete at the top of League 1 or in the Championship.

That is precisely what Stewart Donald checked with Sartori. Have you got the money to do what I am telling you will need to be done? If not, then much as I like you, I don't want to know.

That is precisely the question that responsible supporters should ask if anyone looms over the horizon trying to buy their club. And if there are not some pretty convincing answers they should scream loud and clear until that person walks away. Interesting to hear the Reading reports on the state the club was in when Madejski had to take it back from Zingarevich. Because Zingarevich hadn't had the money to do things properly, the club was run into the ground, to the point of near bankruptcy. He had pawned forward payments to the club in return for short-term cashflow (rather as Tiger subsequently pawned the Madejski stadium itself to provide short term cashflow). If these guys do not have enough of their own cash then they are gambling short term with the long term future of the clubs that they buy. That is why I genuinely do not understand why OxVox agreed not to disclose meeting with Tiger when he basically refused to give any substantive answers to meaningful questions. It was the worst of both worlds.

We are now all 'hoping' that it's all going to be Ok. But we don't know so. And, really, we should. Not know whether Tiger's going to be successful, but be clear (as with Ensco from Day 1) that he has a plan and that it is properly funded and going to be properly managed.

 

[Whingit]

Just for clarity, the Pompey Supporters' Club were in completely different situation to what OxVox were in.

 

[MJB]

As do Sky

Well if we had a marketing department that's something they could rectify.

Or a board member who works for Sky. Oh. Wait.

Or the local BBC being the club’s official broadcast provider.

 

[Marked Ox]

Er, yes he does. That's the point. The Pompey Supporters Trust worked out what the appropriate MINIMUM level of finance would need to be and Eisner had to guarantee that he could provide it. They were guaranteeing a debt free club, with an up-to-date 20,000 stadium and revenues able to compete at the top of League 1 or in the Championship.

That is precisely what Stewart Donald checked with Sartori. Have you got the money to do what I am telling you will need to be done? If not, then much as I like you, I don't want to know.

That is precisely the question that responsible supporters should ask if anyone looms over the horizon trying to buy their club. And if there are not some pretty convincing answers they should scream loud and clear until that person walks away. Interesting to hear the Reading reports on the state the club was in when Madejski had to take it back from Zingarevich. Because Zingarevich hadn't had the money to do things properly, the club was run into the ground, to the point of near bankruptcy. He had pawned forward payments to the club in return for short-term cashflow (rather as Tiger subsequently pawned the Madejski stadium itself to provide short term cashflow). If these guys do not have enough of their own cash then they are gambling short term with the long term future of the clubs that they buy. That is why I genuinely do not understand why OxVox agreed not to disclose meeting with Tiger when he basically refused to give any substantive answers to meaningful questions. It was the worst of both worlds.

We are now all 'hoping' that it's all going to be Ok. But we don't know so. And, really, we should. Not know whether Tiger's going to be successful, but be clear (as with Ensco from Day 1) that he has a plan and that it is properly funded and going to be properly managed.

Yes, that is the funding for Pompey to standstill, not develop though. That said I don't doubt he has the means to go further, whether he will is yet to be determined.

As mentioned by somebody else OxVox are in a completely and fundamentally different position considering the Pompey fans Trust owned the club so could make demands (and ask for confirmation of resources etc).

 

[Scotchegg]

I'm pretty sure that the last concern is not currently on the horizon. It is commonly acknowledged that they haven't spoken to Firoz, and that FK is pretty hacked off that, unlike Sartori, they haven't been sensible enough to go and speak to him.

But elsewhere, yes I think that there are some wonderful stories being told. Let's take the "£9 million investment" that DE claims he has made into the club. What a load of old baloney. Here is what happened:

1. He bought the club for £4 million in summer 2014. As part of the deal, he also bought £4 million of IL's debt for £1.
2. In two tranches during the first two years he was here, DE invested/ allocated £6.3 million. At this point, the club debt to him was a staggering £10.3 million, which roughly equated to the total equity Ensco had originally allocated to the project in 2014.
3. The club lost a total of £4 million during the first two seasons he was here (helpfully, the financial year and the start of his tenure coincided, so easy to work these things out sequentially). This money was duly drawn down from the allocated funds, leaving a surplus of £2.3 million entering season 2016/2017. Thus the actual investment at this, the highest point, was circa £8 million.
4. Following the sales of Roofe and O'Dowda, and good attendances/ Cup revenues, the club made a reasonably substantial profit during that financial year (DE himself has confirmed that a profit was made). I was told that it was circa £500k, and apparently that included a substantial rise in outgoings to 'administrative and management expenses'....
5. Notwithstanding those consultancy payments, therefore, as of May 2017 DE's total investment (as he was due to sell to Sartori) was around £7.5 million. £4 million to buy the club and net £3.5 million to run it for three seasons.
6. Summer 2017 saw net incomings to the club of £4 million (Roofe and COD addons of £1.2 millions; MApp compensation of £300k; Sercombe sale of £175k; Lundstram sale of £750k; Marvin first instalment of £1.5 million). On the debit side, there were a few small payments out for Ledson and co and part of the sales went into funding an increased playing budget. There was also the cost of running the club during the summer of, say, £300k.

So, as of the start of the season the slate was about even. Now, there are all sorts of weird and wonderful things that one can do with 'soft' debt, to make sure that it stays nice and high ('management charges' that get invoiced but remain unpaid are a favourite amongst various company owners). But in real, moral terms no-one should have been owed anything by anyone at that point. I imagine that the club has gone on to lose another £1 million or so while this season has "progressed", so by sale time DE's investment was £4 million buying the club and about £1 million of genuine "debt accrued on his watch".... but with the assets of the completion of Marvin's transfer to come.

There is nothing "wrong" with the above, by the way. It's all common enough practice, and is not even dodgy, let alone illegal. But claiming to have "invested £9 million" into OUFC gives a misleading impression to casual onlookers. I'm sure that was not the intention, so happy to set the record more or less straight!

Let's go with the figures you have up until the summer of 2017 where DE was in to the cost of £7.5m. He then brings in just shy of £4m but also pays out for several contracts. They was talk of big loan fees being paid out and an increase in wages for many that signed. He has paid of a 3 year contract for Pep and possibly Xemi too along with having little in through our early cup failures and a dip in attendance. We were losing around £1.5m a year before, so with additional wages alone that is likely to be around £2m for this year. Then add in signing on fees, loan fees, agents fees etc and the paying off of contracts and we could be closer to the £4m he got in. Also paying for OUWFC and deals with Oxford City etc. So, a long way from the slate being about even as you state.

Now, it may not be around the £9m mark, but its hardly chicken feed either.

 

[Lundinsponytail]

Yes, that is the funding for Pompey to standstill, not develop though. That said I don't doubt he has the means to go further, whether he will is yet to be determined.

As mentioned by somebody else OxVox are in a completely and fundamentally different position considering the Pompey fans Trust owned the club so could make demands (and ask for confirmation of resources etc).

Yes, of course. Oxvox could not turn Tiger down or stop the deal happening.
But to be actively thanked by the outgoing owner for their part in helping the deal to happen is to acknowledge that they did have power.
They could have said: we will stand aside from this process and act as an independent third party unless you convince us that your plans are convincing and well-funded enough to warrant our support.
To be told that you are not having your substantive questions addressed, but still have to white lie to your members for four months, to protect the capital realisation of the chairman, is demeaning and nonsensical unless you believe it is in the best interests of the club.
And if it is the latter, have the balls to say that and explain why, rather than tamely saying you are looking forward to hearing his plans.

 

[myles]

Refuting myles evidence is exactly what I’ve been doing, I probably come across argumentative, or having a go, that’s not it at all. I’d don’t know where to find it or have contacts that would have that sort of info, so I ask for evidence, I ask if it’s actually fact that they are involved. That’s not saying I think he’s cooked it up, I’ve said from day 1 a don’t doubt 1 single item of it.

That's not refuting evidence though. That would involve putting up evidence to the contrary to disprove what I've said. And I'm more than happy for people to do that. I have absolutely no problem with being proved wrong - if anything that would make me happy because it'd show that we are not dealing with a bunch of shady individuals after all. What I do find tiresome is when people simply trot out the "oh, it's just Myles with his anti-OxVox/anti-Darryl/anti-OUFC agenda" without actually addressing the points I've raised. (As an aside, I did have a chuckle to myself on Monday when I explained why the anti-OxVox allegation was nonsense and literally two posts later somebody threw that allegation at me!)

When I raised the issue of the likes of "Jack" Srisumrid being involved in this deal with Tiger, your position was that as there was no evidence they were involved, I was just scaremongering (I'm paraphrasing here, and I'm trying to avoid saying "you" because I want to de-personalise this and keep to the facts). Personally, I thought that position was naive considering the links between them. It's now come to light that "Jack" has been involved and was the person OxVox were emailing for information - not Tiger, "Jack". This is now trying to be dismissed as "this was months ago, and there's no evidence he's now involved", and "well, considering his history with MCFC and RFC, it's obvious he would be advising". Come on......

As a reminder why the presence of "Jack" should be treated with a huge dollop of scepticism, remember this is the guy who was Shinawatra's close ally and took the reins for him at MCFC. Remember where Shinawatra is now? And "Jack" was a key part of the RFC deal which was meant to be a consortium of four, but dropped to three when one of the individuals got into a bit of legal difficulty. To ape Brian Clough's question of Justin Fashanu (and, yes, that was horribly crass), if you're not involved in corruption and money laundering, why are you so closely involved with individuals who are?

One of the key things which has been missing, IMHO, from OxVox's approach here is addressing the obvious concerns and the provable untruths which have been uttered. The latest is from Monday's round of interviews where Tiger claimed to be a Director of Carabao. He's listed neither as a Director of Carabao in Thailand, or of InterCarabao here. So, what "Carabao" is he actually a director of? Or is he confusing himself with the individuals who are actually financing this deal?

How about a little wager? I'll come up with firm evidence within the next 7 days - so, by 0800 next Wednesday morning - that it's more than just Tiger behind this deal?

 

[Scotchegg]

Let's go with the figures you have up until the summer of 2017 where DE was in to the cost of £7.5m. He then brings in just shy of £4m but also pays out for several contracts. They was talk of big loan fees being paid out and an increase in wages for many that signed. He has paid of a 3 year contract for Pep and possibly Xemi too along with having little in through our early cup failures and a dip in attendance. We were losing around £1.5m a year before, so with additional wages alone that is likely to be around £2m for this year. Then add in signing on fees, loan fees, agents fees etc and the paying off of contracts and we could be closer to the £4m he got in. Also paying for OUWFC and deals with Oxford City etc. So, a long way from the slate being about even as you state.

Now, it may not be around the £9m mark, but its hardly chicken feed either.

PS Charlie - you ask for reasonable debate but fail to respond when your 'facts' are questioned. Poor show.