International News Black Lives Matter

[Scotchegg]

And back on track............... police officer suspended, crowds on the street protesting........

Chris Kaba: Met suspends officer who shot dead unarmed man

The police watchdog has opened a homicide investigation over the death of the 24-year-old.

www.bbc.co.uk

Have they skipped the previous & other contributory factors around his death?

Convicted & jailed for possession of an imitation firearm
Firearms marker on the car due to a previous incident.
It wasn`t his car.
He failed to stop for police.
He tried to ram a pursuing marked Police vehicle.
Failed to get out of the car after the ramming despite multiple requests by armed officers.

Not a single one of those gives a lawful reason to discharge a firearm, and ultimately kill someone, unless it can be demonstrated that there was a clear risk to life.

As for questions about whether it is right to suspend the officer, there is a live homicide investigation in which they are responsible for the death. It's not unreasonable under those circumstances to suspend someone from duty pending a full investigation. I'm not sure how anyone would suggest otherwise.

 

[Scotchegg]

"They didn`t find a gun" whined a relative in an interview.

No but he used a ton of car as a weapon to ram a police car, and could well have tried the same towards individual officers. An imminent threat to life....

A car to car impact under the circumstances described is exceptionally unlikely to case an imminent threat to life. What he "could well have tried" is irrelevant if he didn't do it.

 

[Carpy]

Absolutely. Are you suggesting they do not have sufficient detail to merit a suspension? That quite a claim.

No, they likely do not, the IOPC will be performing the investigation to avoid any conflicts of interest, so the Met will not know all of the evidence until the investigation has been concluded.

 

[Carpy]

As for questions about whether it is right to suspend the officer, there is a live homicide investigation in which they are responsible for the death. It's not unreasonable under those circumstances to suspend someone from duty pending a full investigation. I'm not sure how anyone would suggest otherwise.

Innocent until proven guilty, suspending someone suggests that is not the case. It is absolutely right that the officer was placed on restricted duties, the symbolism of suspending them was for nobody's protection but the Met public image, all at the expense of a potentially completely innocent officer, I almost guarantee that this officer, if found innocent, will never volunteer to carry a firearm again.

 

[Scotchegg]

Innocent until proven guilty, suspending someone suggests that is not the case. It is absolutely right that the officer was placed on restricted duties, the symbolism of suspending them was for nobody's protection but the Met public image, all at the expense of a potentially completely innocent officer, I almost guarantee that this officer, if found innocent, will never volunteer to carry a firearm again.

Being suspended from duty is not a presumption of guilt.

Most employers will have a clear discipline structure where suspension may be considered if they are investigated for an offence which, if proved, would result in dismissal due to gross misconduct.

There is a homicide investigation. If proven, this individual could face a murder charge. There is no employer who wouldn't suspend (or immediately dismiss) someone under these circumstances.

 

[Carpy]

Being suspended from duty is not a presumption of guilt.

Most employers will have a clear discipline structure where suspension may be considered if they are investigated for an offence which, if proved, would result in dismissal due to gross misconduct.

There is a homicide investigation. If proven, this individual could face a murder charge. There is no employer who wouldn't suspend (or immediately dismiss) someone under these circumstances.

I have intimate knowledge of the regulations so I don't need a lecture from someone that doesn't, we'll agree to disagree on the usefulness and merits of suspending the officer in question until the investigation has run its course.

 

[Essexyellows]

Based on what has been reported and said, it is likely his behaviour was deemed "intentional and threatening".

Police guidance says they can make the decision based on that:
"To prevent an immediate threat to life by shooting to stop the subject from carrying out their intended or threatened course of action. In most circumstances this is achieved by aiming to strike the central body mass (i.e. the torso)."

Of course there is the possibility there was an accidental discharge but the real issue is that the victim contributed greatly to his own demise.

A car to car impact under the circumstances described is exceptionally unlikely to case an imminent threat to life. What he "could well have tried" is irrelevant if he didn't do it.

Sorry Saint Scotchers - neither of us were there but, based on commonly available reports and statements, the individual was making multiple attempts to avoid arrest and not comply with clear instructions.

There appears to have been intent by the bucket load - not stopping, ramming a police car, ignoring multiple requests to exit the vehicle.

That ended badly for him but he created the situation, he escalated the situation and it had sweet feck all to do with the colour of his skin.

The officer should, and was, placed on restricted duty but it was the subsequent clamour of the family/protestors that forced the Met to suspend them.

 

[Scotchegg]

I have intimate knowledge of the regulations so I don't need a lecture from someone that doesn't, we'll agree to disagree on the usefulness and merits of suspending the officer in question until the investigation has run its course.

What regulations do you have intimate knowledge of that us mere mortals couldn't possibly understand?

 

[Scotchegg]

Sorry Saint Scotchers - neither of us were there but, based on commonly available reports and statements, the individual was making multiple attempts to avoid arrest and not comply with clear instructions.

There appears to have been intent by the bucket load - not stopping, ramming a police car, ignoring multiple requests to exit the vehicle.

That ended badly for him but he created the situation, he escalated the situation and it had sweet feck all to do with the colour of his skin.

The officer should, and was, placed on restricted duty but it was the subsequent clamour of the family/protestors that forced the Met to suspend them.

I'd rather be a Saint than a racist who is happy to see criminals killed, as long as they're black.

 

[bazzer9461]

I'd rather be a Saint than a racist who is happy to see criminals killed, as long as they're black.

ffs absolute pathetic comment.

 

[bazzer9461]

There will be an investigation and if with witness and I presume office cctv and possibly cctv in the street may determine what actually happened. If as what has been said about the deceased person ie drugs a car with markers for guns, then armed police will be involved.
If what has happened or driving at a police car then I think the situation would have been upgraded to serious. What happened before the fatal shot was discharged is crucial to the outcome, did the deceased person make sudden moves where the officer felt a weapon may have been used was it the correct action? Or was it just a shooting just in the info you have.
The enquiry will be long and hard and hopefully the truth will prevail.
If the PC is acquitted on proof of self defence then we move on if however he has shown blatant disregard for his duty as an armed officer then hopefully the book will be thrown at him and he will be charged accordingly.
Tragically no do think there will be some rioting as a result no matter what the verdict.

 

[battman]

And back on track............... police officer suspended, crowds on the street protesting........

Chris Kaba: Met suspends officer who shot dead unarmed man

The police watchdog has opened a homicide investigation over the death of the 24-year-old.

www.bbc.co.uk

Have they skipped the previous & other contributory factors around his death?

Convicted & jailed for possession of an imitation firearm
Firearms marker on the car due to a previous incident.
It wasn`t his car.
He failed to stop for police.
He tried to ram a pursuing marked Police vehicle.
Failed to get out of the car after the ramming despite multiple requests by armed officers.

Why not wait until the investigation is finished and the facts are made public before you start your race-baiting?

 

[Essexyellows]

Why not wait until the investigation is finished and the facts are made public before you start your race-baiting?

Why don`t the protestors wait until the investigation is finished?

Or are you just assuming stuff as per normal?

 

[Essexyellows]

I'd rather be a Saint than a racist who is happy to see criminals killed, as long as they're black.

Treat everyone fairly I see?
Never jump to conclusions?
If in doubt call them names?

Bet its fun on your wing Kanga.

 

[Essexyellows]

What regulations do you have intimate knowledge of that us mere mortals couldn't possibly understand?

Oh dear, someone has more knowledge than the Saint.

In other news there is talk that a lot of Blue Card holders will be handing them in on Tuesday after their "leaders" bowed to political pressure to suspend the officer involved. If you don`t support the frontline and side with convicted criminals, anyone would question why they volunteer to do the dirty jobs.

Even door lockers.

 

[IsleofWightYellow]

He’ll be suspended on full pay and if cleared by the independent IOPC investigation then he will return to work. From my knowledge of firearms officers I doubt there’ll be mass quittings over this. Maybe if he’s unfairly convicted/sacked, but that’s a very different matter.

 

[Scotchegg]

Oh dear, someone has more knowledge than the Saint.

In other news there is talk that a lot of Blue Card holders will be handing them in on Tuesday after their "leaders" bowed to political pressure to suspend the officer involved. If you don`t support the frontline and side with convicted criminals, anyone would question why they volunteer to do the dirty jobs.

Even door lockers.

As someone who advises both management and union officials on employment law, I am interested in how someone's "intimate knowledge of regulations" regarding disciplinary processes, including when suspensions may be appropriate.

As for a number of people handing in a Blue Light discount card in disgust, I'm struggling to see how that will make any point?

And finally, as someone who has spent 27 years working in the criminal justice system, I believe in upholding the law and delivering appropriate justice. If this Officer has been found to have used excessive and lethal force then they will then become the criminal. If they have acted appropriately under extreme stress in a uncertain and fearful situation then they deserve to be openly exonerated through a full and fair investigation.

That is the justice that I support, not whatever is spouted by hateful ignorant bigots with no knowledge or evidence of the events beyond the skin colour of those involved.

 

[Essexyellows]

As someone who advises both management and union officials on employment law, I am interested in how someone's "intimate knowledge of regulations" regarding disciplinary processes, including when suspensions may be appropriate.

As for a number of people handing in a Blue Light discount card in disgust, I'm struggling to see how that will make any point?

And finally, as someone who has spent 27 years working in the criminal justice system, I believe in upholding the law and delivering appropriate justice. If this Officer has been found to have used excessive and lethal force then they will then become the criminal. If they have acted appropriately under extreme stress in a uncertain and fearful situation then they deserve to be openly exonerated through a full and fair investigation.

That is the justice that I support, not whatever is spouted by hateful ignorant bigots with no knowledge or evidence of the events beyond the skin colour of those involved.

Then you would know what a "Blue Card" is the colloquial term for then? Here is a clue its not a Blue Light shopping discount card.

While you scramble for more waffle, look up the case of Met PC Anthony Long - it took him 13 years to clear his name.

And maybe you can also look up "Holier than thou" or "sanctimonious" while you are there.

 

[Scotchegg]

Then you would know what a "Blue Card" is the colloquial term for then? Here is a clue its not a Blue Light shopping discount card.

While you scramble for more waffle, look up the case of Met PC Anthony Long - it took him 13 years to clear his name.

And maybe you can also look up "Holier than thou" or "sanctimonious" while you are there.

 

[Carpy]

This all getting rather silly

The officer in question is most likely absolutely distraught at the fact his actions have led to the death of someone, I don't agree with the Met then sticking the knife in by suspending them, suspension may not be a big deal to some, to other, especially in the police, it will be more so. All this so the Met can protect their public image (which is already in tatters). Their statement even confirmed this; “This decision has been reached following careful consideration of a number of factors, including the significant impact on public confidence" which coincidentally is the very last option for them to consider as an appropriate reason to suspend someone as per the police regs.

That doesn't make me racist, that doesn't make me a bigot, I'm out