Potential New Ground

[Bath Yellow]

i posted this on another thread but it's relevant here


Perhaps this is why individuals or indeed a Group should not be involved in future leasing or purchase of stadiums as they are not going to be around for long to oversee "The Football club" as in most cases the end game is the property etc and the football club is a means to obtaining retail complexes etc.
We are never going to see any Owners Business Plan or that whoever owns a club will still invest in on field activities in the Long Term, i have said many times a shiny new stadium is of little consequence if success on the pitch does not follow.

Football has changed and the clubs currently in the Championship are no great pull for the casual fan or indeed many hardcore fans, it's all about the top 5/6 premiership clubs. Even with a 20.000 stadium with 3.000 away fans you would still need around 3 times our normal home support and i do not believe they are there and if success (in the eyes of many) does not come you're soon faced with a virtual empty new stadium.

MK Dons a classic example

 

[Oxford84]

MK Dons a classic example

They had no history at all though.

 

[Oslernorth]

MK Dons a classic example

Reading kinda bucked that tread. They went from around 3000 at Elm Park to regular 5 figures in their new ground. Brighton also achieved a similar increase.
Whether these extra fans are diehard supporters of the club, of just people who attend their local Champ/Prem football match to be entertained is probably another argument

 

[Thomas/Brock/Jones]

All depends on the success of the club, Championship and above we will get very decent crowds , league one would not be anywhere near as attractive to the many floaters / general football fans who we could get in.

 

[38yearsofpain]

All depends on the success of the club, Championship and above we will get very decent crowds , league one would not be anywhere near as attractive to the many floaters / general football fans who we could get in.

Ultimately you have to be successful for a decade so that a new generation gets ingrained. Its always about getting the kids, they stay for life.

 

[horseman]

All depends on the success of the club, Championship and above we will get very decent crowds , league one would not be anywhere near as attractive to the many floaters / general football fans who we could get in.

Hate saying it but how many of those in the Championship are any sort of attraction to casual or indeed hardcore fans?

 

[horseman]

Ultimately you have to be successful for a decade so that a new generation gets ingrained. Its always about getting the kids, they stay for life.

And you wont get the kids interested in Little Oxford and that's if in the modern world you can get them interested in attending anyway

 

[Thomas/Brock/Jones]

Hate saying it but how many of those in the Championship are any sort of attraction to casual or indeed hardcore fans?

Reading have done well with that and the amount of non Wycombe fans/ families who would have watched them this Season I know because of championship football has been interesting to say the least. Have a great ground with an experience to match , get the kids wanting to go again and there you have it.

 

[bazzer9461]

Reading kinda bucked that tread. They went from around 3000 at Elm Park to regular 5 figures in their new ground. Brighton also achieved a similar increase.
Whether these extra fans are diehard supporters of the club, of just people who attend their local Champ/Prem football match to be entertained is probably another argument

Probably the latter Reading just gained a prudent owner/chairman in Madjeski who was clever, whereas we had a greedy bastard who didn’t give one iota over football.

 

[horseman]

Reading have done well with that and the amount of non Wycombe fans/ families who would have watched them this Season I know because of championship football has been interesting to say the least. Have a great ground with an experience to match , get the kids wanting to go again and there you have it.

Both Millwall and Watford visited in the recent past how many attended? Don't tell me that was just due to the ground

Remember when we got Championship Charlton in the cup and IL thought they were such an attraction ?

People were more interested in a "Day Out" at Middlesbrough than upcoming games with 1st and 2nd in the League (Bolton + Sheffield United) at a time when we were still in with a chance of promotion and that was regular fans.

 

[Oxford84]

Both Millwall and Watford visited in the recent past how many attended? Don't tell me that was just due to the ground

Remember when we got Championship Charlton in the cup and IL thought they were such an attraction ?

People were more interested in a "Day Out" at Middlesbrough than upcoming games with 1st and 2nd in the League (Bolton + Sheffield United) at a time when we were still in with a chance of promotion and that was regular fans.

Bolton and Sheffield united games were both tuesday night games

 

[horseman]

Bolton and Sheffield united games were both tuesday night games

Away ends seemed pretty full and Long trip for Both

Other than cup games against prem clubs we have never attracted many casual/floaters and even then despite some cracking games performances and results what % came back?

 

[werthersoriginal]

And you wont get the kids interested in Little Oxford and that's if in the modern world you can get them interested in attending anyway

Mate, you keep saying this. More people watch football now than in the 80s or 90s. We used to get 5k in the second tier sometimes

 

[Foley]

Mate, you keep saying this. More people watch football now than in the 80s or 90s. We used to get 5k in the second tier sometimes

And we would get crowds of 7000 on the Premier League equivalent at times.

 

[bashamwonderland]

Away ends seemed pretty full and Long trip for Both

Other than cup games against prem clubs we have never attracted many casual/floaters and even then despite some cracking games performances and results what % came back?

I suppose the thing about the Kassam is that it probably weeds out a lot of casual support because of its location.

I know the ice rink will never be a serious option but it's that kind of stadium (Newcastle's situation also springs to mind) which has great transport links, most importantly a rail connection, and shopping / pubs / food nearby which would really kick up some great support.

Being in a league which interests the students would be good for numbers too (whether or not we would actually want that though is another issue entirely).

I know none of this is groundbreaking, but I can't see much of a League 1 or Championship boost in attendance unless we came into the town.

 

[Thomas/Brock/Jones]

And we would get crowds of 7000 on the Premier League equivalent at times.

It was a completely different beast then though , the crowd's across Div 1 were much , much lower than today. We would have quite a surprise at the amount of casual support who would show up if we were successful in higher leagues .

 

[Colin B]

@horseman a few facts for you regarding the increase in attendances over the years.

In 1985, when we won what is now called the Championship, the average crowd in that league was 8,725. We averaged 10,577. The average in that league last year was 20,172. The following year in the top division the average crowd was 19,569, and we averaged 11,009. Last season the Premier League average was 38,181.

So attendances have in fact DOUBLED in that time. Therefore it is not unreasonable to expect that we could attract far far more than 10,577 and 11,009 given similar success. And that was in the cramped Manor Ground too. Whether you like it or not football crowds have changed in their composition, with far more women and families choosing to attend. But those people want comfort and convenience and it's important to be able to provide a good match day experience (not a phrase I'm particularly fond of, but that's how it is). The Kassam Stadium does not do this but a new stadium, if designed properly, could provide everything that's needed to entice these people (hopefully converting them into regulars) while also looking after the current supporters' by providing a better atmosphere to go with the enhanced match day experience. It could also provide the income streams to pay for these things too.

To conclude, I have absolutely no doubt that we have the potential to attract crowds far in excess of those from our glory years, but to do so we would need Championship football and a suitable (new) stadium. We are not a special case who are the only club in the league who wouldn't increase their attendances if all these things were achieved. To prove that point the following clubs had the following average attendance in 1985 (ours was 10,577 remember). If they can improve their attendances so much by improving on the field, and in many cases moving, why can't we?

Wolves 8,375
Huddersfield 7,238
Crystal Palace 6,446
Fulham 6,179
Middlesbrough 5,135
Swansea 4,421
Cardiff 4,363
Burnley 4,177
Preston 3,793
Reading 3,689

 

[arthurturner]

They had no history at all though.

That misses the point. No one is going to spend multimillions on a stadium unless the doing so enables a related property development from which they can make money. That was true of Reading and of MK Dons. If it comes to pass that will also be true of Oxford United. Horseman's analysis is absolutely correct. The end game is the property deal. The question now is: has the pandemic changed the retail dynamic such as to make this no longer so attractive?

 

[werthersoriginal]

That misses the point. No one is going to spend multimillions on a stadium unless the doing so enables a related property development from which they can make money. That was true of Reading and of MK Dons. If it comes to pass that will also be true of Oxford United. Horseman's analysis is absolutely correct. The end game is the property deal. The question now is: has the pandemic changed the retail dynamic such as to make this no longer so attractive?

AS shown above, his analyisis is incorrect In that he thinks the interest in football is waning and attendances declining at smaller clubs, whereas the opposite is true.

 

[arthurturner]

AS shown above, his analyisis is incorrect In that he thinks the interest in football is waning and attendances declining at smaller clubs, whereas the opposite is true.

On the question of future attendances I have no opinion other than clearly they will have an affect on all clubs going forward. My comments were with regard to the stadium infrastructure.